Well if you have nothing to offer, Im not certain how you propose that we proceed? I would refer to you as illogical but I am merely basing that on your posts thus far.

Since you dont seem to even be capable of offering one theory or concept that you prefer, then there is no way in which I can debate the issue with you. There is no basis for argument.

I have NEVER once condemned anyone elses beliefs. I merely support what I feel to be credible without the use of circular argument. Im not sure you can claim the same. At least not demonstrated by any of your threads.

In fact, as I have pointed out on past threads, one of the main issues I have with Christianity is in its insistence on condemnation of those who choose not to adhere to this particular belief system. So, quite the opposite of what you are attempting to now portray. You are utilizing spin but in such an obvious manner, it can hardly assist you.

In fact quite a few of the founding fathers were Deists. If you can offer supportive evidence to combat what I have presented please be my guest.

well for the sake of argument let's say that they were deist which is nothing more than Pantheism...then "Krisma" explain where the Deist concept of God arise from if not from Christianity

This is the definition of a Deist funches. I went ahead and copied and pasted this so there will be no potential for argument that I am in fact placing it in my own words thus opening it up to bias.

"Deism is the belief that a supreme God exists and created the physical universe, and that religious truths can be arrived at by the application of reason alone, without dependence on revelation. It is in contrast with fideism, found in many forms of Christianity, Islamic and Judaic teachings, which holds that religious truths rely upon revelation in sacred scriptures and upon the testimony of other people as well as reasoning."

My point that I have made repeatedly was that not ALL of these Founding Fathers were Christians as clearly evidenced by the Treaty of Tripoli which you have yet to address. You are now asking that I support my position which I have already done. You have yet to offer a credible argument to refute it.

yea right...ok you have fun with that...

"Krisma" I know what a Deist is...but I asked you where did "Deist" get their concept of God if not from Christianity

also can you provide a list of the founding fathers that define which religion they were

My understanding of Deist, as illustrated from my posted definition is that it is NOT Christian in origin at all. A deist does not necessarily believe in the biblical Christian god as being the creator of the universe. They suggest that there was some grand creator. They also do not believe that this creator has any ongoing role in the lives of men.

Feel free to manipulate that in any manner you wish. Clearly they were not Christians. And you have yet to address or refute my evidence so why should I continually keep presenting more and more? When do you pick up the shovel so to speak?

double post

Anyway, funches, I have yet to see a clear analogy between either theory and a religious dogma. If you should arrive at something, I will certainly hear you out.

"Krisma" your argument lies on the fact that you claim that the founding fathers were mostly "Deist"...and I say that you are mistaken and that none of them were "Deist" so this can be easy resolved by you presenting the names of those founding fathers there were "Deist"

Okay I will give you the name of another thread in which I went into much greater detail on the topic. I never said "mostly Deist" either. Stop putting words into my mouth. I said "several" held deist beliefs or were not Christian. In fact there were members of Congress who were Christians. This actually resulted in a great deal of disagreement, arguing and drafting and re-drafting of both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Here is yet another example for you.

Thomas Jefferson's origional wording on his initial draft of the Declaration of Independence:

"All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable."

Congress altered the document to read what we now understand and to intensify its religious overtones:

"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights."

I will private message the thread since this topic was never intended to even address this. Just your "In God We Trust": comment initiated the debate.

again "Krisma" the issue can be resolved simply if you present the names of which founding fathers were "Deist"

if you can't is why "In God We Trust" is referring to the bibilical God

none of those guys were deist they were simply trying to be unbias when it came to religion and you mistaked it for "Deistism"

Nature abhors naked singularities...

Well then, Thomas Jefferson would be one obviously. Also, how do you explain what I posted thus far? I can keep going but like I said, what is the point of me continually posting more and more evidence if you are simply going to continue requesting more and more?

I dont understand your question as it relates to the phrase "In God We Trust" Perhaps you need to re-word that or else its simply a typo? Are you asking me to explain which "god" they were referring to? If they had strong Deist influence then it could be ANY god. Haven't we already gone over this? Presumably it was NOT the god of the bible but the "god of nature" as would run in accordance with Deist beliefs. That is one plausible interpretation. You realize that the term "god" is quite generic dont you? They could have been referring to Zeus!

Once again, please refute my argument. Funches saying "he disagrees" with a premise does not make it inaccurate or erroneous. Unless funches is god?

Besides Funches, why would you care so much about this topic unless you are a "closet Christian" Why not try explaining that one to me??

sorry "Krisma" but you are wrong about Thomas Jefferson...Jefferson was not a "Deist" he was a "Protestant"

so you are making up stuff about the founding fathers ..not one of them was a "deist" ...so what is your purpose for presenting inaccurate information that can easy be checked

is this the same judgement you use in claiming that the theory of evolution is fact

Funches thats just sour grapes. If ANYTHING I have stated thus far is inaccurate historically documented material, then please point it out. Like I already said, your simply proclaiming,

"I dont like this so it cant be factual."

Any little child can do that. Neiner neiner. Come on, give me something here.

just like you to look up a bit of info on something and not read his life story, he became a diest holding to lockes and others take on deism later on.

hummmm.."Krisma" now that I trapped you in a corner you try to make it about me ...

I'm simply here to place you on the path to true rightousness ...so just accept the enlightenment

"Krisma" it was you that claim this country was founded in "Deistism" ...but haven't displayed the name of any of the founding fathers that was a "Deist" ...your argument therefore has no base