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| Topic: WHAT WOULD LIFE BE LIKE WITHOUT RELIGION? | |
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Edited by
ljcc1964
on
Fri 10/24/08 11:33 PM
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I understand. What you are saying is that you don't see any evidence of a diety. I get that. But my question was not if you believe in a diety, but how you can conclude that someone is avoiding reality by believing in one. I believe in a diety. Does this mean that I am avoiding reality? And if so...what evidence do you have to support your conclusion?  I don't know you, so I can't answer your question. The people I know, who believe in a deity, clearly are avoiding reality, in my opinion. The deity becomes an excuse for bad behavior ("This is the way God made me" or "It's all a part of His marvelous plan"), thereby abrogating any responsibility for their own actions. This does not fit in with my idea of reality. One must ultimately be responsible for one's own actions. They live their lives, ostensibly (although not so much in practice), in such a way so as to please a fictional character who does not exist, and who can do nothing to them, or for them, whatsoever. This does not fit in with my idea of reality. The Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Santa have no influence on my thoughts and actions. They deny science, and scientific procedures and methods, no matter how arduously tested, for the sake of clinging to their own baseless mythologies. Dinosaurs never existed, the earth was created in 4004 B.C., and there is no link whatsoever between a chimpanzee and a human, despite a nearly 99% match in active DNA nucleotide sequences. This not fit in with my idea of reality. Because a person finds a discovery offensive does not mean it cannot be true. My idea of reality could be wrong -- I acknowledge that. But mine fits in better with the reality I can experience, can learn about, can explore -- mine is not dependent on invisible friends, ethereal beings no one has ever seen or heard. My reality includes the word "real." As in tangible, testable, measurable, and perceptible. Interesting friends you have there. My opinion is this: I think that no matter what actually is the reality of the existance of a diety or lack thereof...it is better to be open to the possibility that I am wrong...or just don't know yet...or fully.....or at all, rather than to blindly cling to a belief or lack of a belief, to the exclusion of any openness to what anyone else contrarily believes. Any intelligent person will admit that the lack of evidence of a thing...doesn't exclude the possibility of its existence. If a diety does indeed exist, this diety's charactaristics, intent and effect on our physical world will, more than likely, be beyond our comprehension. So why attempt it? Well I know that I, myself, am driven to "figure things out"....so I know why I would try. Unless a person has had a personal experience that is conclusive as to the existence of God, he or she can either choose to believe or choose not to believe. If God really does not exist, ultimately I will either discover the truth of it when I die and either experience what happens after I die....or I cease to exist myself. Either way...what have I lost if I choose to believe in Him now? Nothing. I have my belief system...which contains the certainty that I just don't know everything...or even a lot. And I'm ok with that. I think I'd just rather try to be open to possibilities...so that when the ultimate truth is finally revealed to me...I can recognize and accept it. Hehehehe....and I just realized I just completely missed the intent of this thread. What do I think life would be like with no diety? I have no idea whatsoever. I tend to think that, to have no concept at all of diety....there would have to exist the actual absense of one. Hmmmm..... The problem i see with this though my lady, is some religions teach that the decision has to be made "before you die" as to accepting its teaching, an after the fact[death] conclusion will not avail to acceptence and it is taught it's to late and you will perish. For me there is no problem in this regard. I am committed.....but not merely to a religion and its teaching. I am very certain I will not perish.  I also could not presume to know what God's idea of "too late" is.....just an afterthought. |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? I think that some (not all) would accept it. Imagine if each human where to be willing to unanimously let go of all respective religions with the seemingly endless, yet finite definitions of Gods and Goddesses. Many would possibly thrive in the unlimited and open possibility when not following a formula for connecting to the whole self. I think about this some more and get back. |
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 In the end, the human race will probably end up as food for the draconian aliens or breeding stock for Zeta clones, the only enlightenment can be obtained by studying the teachings of the Light Beings that have come to guide us to obtaining ascension in the higher density levels.
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Imagine if each human where to be willing to unanimously let go of all respective religions with the seemingly endless, yet finite definitions of Gods and Goddesses. Many would possibly thrive in the unlimited and open possibility when not following a formula for connecting to the whole self. There was a time in my life, not very long ago at all as a matter of fact. maybe even as recently as last week, when I couldn't care less about religions at all. This is because up until that point in my life I was naturally spirtual without a need for religion. In fact, I had actaully become involved with a very negative religion at one time that I would have been much better off I had never been introduced to it. Unfortunately I had been raised into it. In any case, for a very long time I was able to be 'spiritual' without religion. It didn't matter to me. My spirituality didn't require an rituals that would be noticable by anyone. I had no deity to 'defend'. And in my mind I could be with my vision of 'god' whilst simultaneously agreeing to be called an atheist. The reason is quite simple. The very word 'god' is a meaninless word. In other words, the 'god' that I had a relationship could be labeled, "my higher self". Who can argue with that? Even if they did, perhaps we could just call it my 'subconscious mind' and leave it at that. The worst they could do is accuse me of being schizophrenic.  I don't think I ever truly felt that God is a jealous egotistical pig that demands public recogniztion at all cost. To me that woudln't be a God at all but a totally immature spoiled brat of some kind who is extremely desperate for attention. I can't imagine God being desperate for anything. A desperate God is a lame God who is a slave to wants and desires of recognition and jealousy. In any case, more recently I've become interested in a religion. It is indeed a religion because it require 'religiousity'. (i.e. the practice of rituals) But these aren't rigid rituals that the gods are demanding. On the contrary it's more like a garden. If you want to grow a garden you need to sow some seeds. The same way with the gods. If you want to interact with the gods you need to sew the seeds. I don't do it for the gods. I do it for me, because I want the fruits of the labor. I want what the gods have to offer. So I'm willing to plant the seeds and sow the garden. In any case, this religion is a religion that mankind refer to as "witchcraft". It wasn't very long ago that a person could be burned at a stake for practicing witchcraft. So I am very grateful than in this day and age I am free to practice this ancient religion without the fear of being burned at a stake. I can even publically discuss it, and purchase books on the topic and even buy religious supplies that are used in the rituals of witchcraft. I have absolutely no need to defend the religion or its gods to anyone. I don't even care if people laugh at me and make fun of me. Its no skin off my nose and I'm absolutely certain that the gods don't care either. So now you ask me if I would be willing to give this up freely for the sake of what? I push the religion onto no one. I won't even defend it if someone wants to stay that it's silly. Who's it hurting? I believe that it can help me to become physically and mentally healthier. Why should I be asked to forfeit that belief? I'm not proselytizing the religion with threats that whosover shall not believe it shall suffer eternal damanation. I'm not threating other people that they are turning against God if they don't believe like me. I'm not asking anyone to take on the responsibility of being guilty for having murdered God's son. I'm not doing any of those things. Why should I be asked to forfeit my beliefs in a spiritual connection to spiritual energy when it's not harming anyone? I think if a religion is spreading hate against those who refuse to belief in it then maybe that religion should be denounced as a religion and re-categorized as a hate organization. And then dealth with in those terms. I see no reason to ask decent people who harm no one to give up their peaceful pursuit of techniques of spiritual healing and creativity. Just because the Mediterranean religions have caused so much hate and angst in the world is no reason to deny people who view their spiritual essence in peaceful ways. |
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Edited by
splendidlife
on
Sat 10/25/08 09:47 AM
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Imagine if each human where to be willing to unanimously let go of all respective religions with the seemingly endless, yet finite definitions of Gods and Goddesses. Many would possibly thrive in the unlimited and open possibility when not following a formula for connecting to the whole self. There was a time in my life, not very long ago at all as a matter of fact. maybe even as recently as last week, when I couldn't care less about religions at all. This is because up until that point in my life I was naturally spirtual without a need for religion. In fact, I had actaully become involved with a very negative religion at one time that I would have been much better off I had never been introduced to it. Unfortunately I had been raised into it. In any case, for a very long time I was able to be 'spiritual' without religion. It didn't matter to me. My spirituality didn't require an rituals that would be noticable by anyone. I had no deity to 'defend'. And in my mind I could be with my vision of 'god' whilst simultaneously agreeing to be called an atheist. The reason is quite simple. The very word 'god' is a meaninless word. In other words, the 'god' that I had a relationship could be labeled, "my higher self". Who can argue with that? Even if they did, perhaps we could just call it my 'subconscious mind' and leave it at that. The worst they could do is accuse me of being schizophrenic. I don't think I ever truly felt that God is a jealous egotistical pig that demands public recogniztion at all cost. To me that woudln't be a God at all but a totally immature spoiled brat of some kind who is extremely desperate for attention. I can't imagine God being desperate for anything. A desperate God is a lame God who is a slave to wants and desires of recognition and jealousy. In any case, more recently I've become interested in a religion. It is indeed a religion because it require 'religiousity'. (i.e. the practice of rituals) But these aren't rigid rituals that the gods are demanding. On the contrary it's more like a garden. If you want to grow a garden you need to sow some seeds. The same way with the gods. If you want to interact with the gods you need to sew the seeds. I don't do it for the gods. I do it for me, because I want the fruits of the labor. I want what the gods have to offer. So I'm willing to plant the seeds and sow the garden. In any case, this religion is a religion that mankind refer to as "witchcraft". It wasn't very long ago that a person could be burned at a stake for practicing witchcraft. So I am very grateful than in this day and age I am free to practice this ancient religion without the fear of being burned at a stake. I can even publically discuss it, and purchase books on the topic and even buy religious supplies that are used in the rituals of witchcraft. I have absolutely no need to defend the religion or its gods to anyone. I don't even care if people laugh at me and make fun of me. Its no skin off my nose and I'm absolutely certain that the gods don't care either. So now you ask me if I would be willing to give this up freely for the sake of what? I push the religion onto no one. I won't even defend it if someone wants to stay that it's silly. Who's it hurting? I believe that it can help me to become physically and mentally healthier. Why should I be asked to forfeit that belief? I'm not proselytizing the religion with threats that whosover shall not believe it shall suffer eternal damanation. I'm not threating other people that they are turning against God if they don't believe like me. I'm not asking anyone to take on the responsibility of being guilty for having murdered God's son. I'm not doing any of those things. Why should I be asked to forfeit my beliefs in a spiritual connection to spiritual energy when it's not harming anyone? I think if a religion is spreading hate against those who refuse to belief in it then maybe that religion should be denounced as a religion and re-categorized as a hate organization. And then dealth with in those terms. I see no reason to ask decent people who harm no one to give up their peaceful pursuit of techniques of spiritual healing and creativity. Just because the Mediterranean religions have caused so much hate and angst in the world is no reason to deny people who view their spiritual essence in peaceful ways. Abra... You said something that fully resonates for me. That was: In other words, the 'god' that I had a relationship could be labeled, "my higher self". Who can argue with that? Even if they did, perhaps we could just call it my 'subconscious mind' and leave it at that. I can get with this and attempt to not go further in definition... As soon as I latch on to something and deem it "correct", it is as if I've frozen myself to it, obstructing further/greater information. |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? I think that some (not all) would accept it. Imagine if each human where to be willing to unanimously let go of all respective religions with the seemingly endless, yet finite definitions of Gods and Goddesses. Many would possibly thrive in the unlimited and open possibility when not following a formula for connecting to the whole self. I think about this some more and get back. please do
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Imagine if each human where to be willing to unanimously let go of all respective religions with the seemingly endless, yet finite definitions of Gods and Goddesses. Many would possibly thrive in the unlimited and open possibility when not following a formula for connecting to the whole self. There was a time in my life, not very long ago at all as a matter of fact. maybe even as recently as last week, when I couldn't care less about religions at all. This is because up until that point in my life I was naturally spirtual without a need for religion. In fact, I had actaully become involved with a very negative religion at one time that I would have been much better off I had never been introduced to it. Unfortunately I had been raised into it. In any case, for a very long time I was able to be 'spiritual' without religion. It didn't matter to me. My spirituality didn't require an rituals that would be noticable by anyone. I had no deity to 'defend'. And in my mind I could be with my vision of 'god' whilst simultaneously agreeing to be called an atheist. The reason is quite simple. The very word 'god' is a meaninless word. In other words, the 'god' that I had a relationship could be labeled, "my higher self". Who can argue with that? Even if they did, perhaps we could just call it my 'subconscious mind' and leave it at that. The worst they could do is accuse me of being schizophrenic. I don't think I ever truly felt that God is a jealous egotistical pig that demands public recogniztion at all cost. To me that woudln't be a God at all but a totally immature spoiled brat of some kind who is extremely desperate for attention. I can't imagine God being desperate for anything. A desperate God is a lame God who is a slave to wants and desires of recognition and jealousy. In any case, more recently I've become interested in a religion. It is indeed a religion because it require 'religiousity'. (i.e. the practice of rituals) But these aren't rigid rituals that the gods are demanding. On the contrary it's more like a garden. If you want to grow a garden you need to sow some seeds. The same way with the gods. If you want to interact with the gods you need to sew the seeds. I don't do it for the gods. I do it for me, because I want the fruits of the labor. I want what the gods have to offer. So I'm willing to plant the seeds and sow the garden. In any case, this religion is a religion that mankind refer to as "witchcraft". It wasn't very long ago that a person could be burned at a stake for practicing witchcraft. So I am very grateful than in this day and age I am free to practice this ancient religion without the fear of being burned at a stake. I can even publically discuss it, and purchase books on the topic and even buy religious supplies that are used in the rituals of witchcraft. I have absolutely no need to defend the religion or its gods to anyone. I don't even care if people laugh at me and make fun of me. Its no skin off my nose and I'm absolutely certain that the gods don't care either. So now you ask me if I would be willing to give this up freely for the sake of what? I push the religion onto no one. I won't even defend it if someone wants to stay that it's silly. Who's it hurting? I believe that it can help me to become physically and mentally healthier. Why should I be asked to forfeit that belief? I'm not proselytizing the religion with threats that whosover shall not believe it shall suffer eternal damanation. I'm not threating other people that they are turning against God if they don't believe like me. I'm not asking anyone to take on the responsibility of being guilty for having murdered God's son. I'm not doing any of those things. Why should I be asked to forfeit my beliefs in a spiritual connection to spiritual energy when it's not harming anyone? I think if a religion is spreading hate against those who refuse to belief in it then maybe that religion should be denounced as a religion and re-categorized as a hate organization. And then dealth with in those terms. I see no reason to ask decent people who harm no one to give up their peaceful pursuit of techniques of spiritual healing and creativity. Just because the Mediterranean religions have caused so much hate and angst in the world is no reason to deny people who view their spiritual essence in peaceful ways. I wasn't asking for anyone to give up anything Majyk man, my question was - what do you think life would be like without it [god/religion] ?
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? it would lead to utter delusion total chaos create a void in the profession of pyschiatry and cause man to fullfilled the prophecy of Armengeddon himself |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? it would lead to utter delusion total chaos create a void in the profession of pyschiatry and cause man to fullfilled the prophecy of Armengeddon himself Perhaps the profession of Psychiatry is partially rooted in delusion. The delusion that we are somehow flawed and need "fixing". Please just consider it.
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? this part of mankind is ready to accept it. Would mean that many people would not be shoving it at me when I need it not. |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? it would lead to utter delusion total chaos create a void in the profession of pyschiatry and cause man to fullfilled the prophecy of Armengeddon himself Perhaps the profession of Psychiatry is partially rooted in delusion. The delusion that we are somehow flawed and need "fixing". Please just consider it. the last time i looked Psychiatrist had one of the highest suicide rates here, i might have changed to a degree, but thats interesting that people would go to one that in many instances can't even help themselves with thier own problems?? hmmmm? |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? this part of mankind is ready to accept it. Would mean that many people would not be shoving it at me when I need it not. well then all that's necessary is to convince 6 billion + more to do it then. |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? this part of mankind is ready to accept it. Would mean that many people would not be shoving it at me when I need it not. Perhaps we're at the edge of a precipice? Maybe in the next few years, even. |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? it would lead to utter delusion total chaos create a void in the profession of pyschiatry and cause man to fullfilled the prophecy of Armengeddon himself Perhaps the profession of Psychiatry is partially rooted in delusion. The delusion that we are somehow flawed and need "fixing". Please just consider it. "splendidlife"..religion is the poor man's psychiatrist ...without religion it's only logical to predict it would cause a void in the profession ...why place the fact that the masses believe they may be flawed or need fixing on psychiatry and not on the person's own mental state |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 10/25/08 10:40 AM
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? it would lead to utter delusion total chaos create a void in the profession of pyschiatry and cause man to fullfilled the prophecy of Armengeddon himself Perhaps the profession of Psychiatry is partially rooted in delusion. The delusion that we are somehow flawed and need "fixing". Please just consider it. the last time i looked Psychiatrist had one of the highest suicide rates here, i might have changed to a degree, but thats interesting that people would go to one that in many instances can't even help themselves with thier own problems?? hmmmm? The head psychiatrist at the State Hospital in Pueblo came into the bar I was working. My boss wanted me to see if I could guess what he was about or what he did for a living. I served him a drink not knowing anything about him. I surmised that he was probably an out patient at the State Hospital. That was pretty close I think. Two months later the man committed suicide. JB |
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Edited by
splendidlife
on
Sat 10/25/08 10:41 AM
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? this part of mankind is ready to accept it. Would mean that many people would not be shoving it at me when I need it not. well then all that's necessary is to convince 6 billion + more to do it then. Ahhh, yes... But, convincing ~6.5 billion people requires a directive... As soon as we ascribe any directive, doesn't it become "like" religion? |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? it would lead to utter delusion total chaos create a void in the profession of pyschiatry and cause man to fullfilled the prophecy of Armengeddon himself Perhaps the profession of Psychiatry is partially rooted in delusion. The delusion that we are somehow flawed and need "fixing". Please just consider it. the last time i looked Psychiatrist had one of the highest suicide rates here, i might have changed to a degree, but thats interesting that people would go to one that in many instances can't even help themselves with thier own problems?? hmmmm? I thought it was police that had the highest suicide rates..but anyway people go to psychiatrist when they may feel it is more perferable than kneeling on your knees looking upwards and talking to an imaginary friend |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? this part of mankind is ready to accept it. Would mean that many people would not be shoving it at me when I need it not. Perhaps we're at the edge of a precipice? Maybe in the next few years, even. Mankind is allways at the edge... what religions fail to get is that when we fall we fly. there is no need of light without pitfalls... they help us grow... We are destined for glory. No religion can ever take that away from us. Nor can any religion ever force us into a way that is not productive. (i.e. be good so you may die with bliss). WE ARE IMORTAL... WE CAN NOT DIE... THAT WHICH IS US IS FAR BEYOND THE PHYSICAL. we are made in the image of that which is... I AM. |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? it would lead to utter delusion total chaos create a void in the profession of pyschiatry and cause man to fullfilled the prophecy of Armengeddon himself Perhaps the profession of Psychiatry is partially rooted in delusion. The delusion that we are somehow flawed and need "fixing". Please just consider it. the last time i looked Psychiatrist had one of the highest suicide rates here, i might have changed to a degree, but thats interesting that people would go to one that in many instances can't even help themselves with thier own problems?? hmmmm? The head psychiatrist at the State Hospital in Pueblo came into the bar I was working. My boss wanted me to see if I could guess what he was about or what he did for a living. I served him a drink not knowing anything about him. I surmised that he was probably an out patient at the State Hospital. That was pretty close I think. Two months later the man committed suicide. JB I think at times people do need counceling, i even see that happen here occasinally, but i see that as asking questions that will lead one to figurung out what "they" should do, not telling them what to do ,or how fugged up they are. |
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TELL ME HOW YOU THINK LIFE WOULD BE WITHOUT ANY GOD'S OR GODDESSES OR ANTHING ELSE? WOULD MANKIND BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT? it would lead to utter delusion total chaos create a void in the profession of pyschiatry and cause man to fullfilled the prophecy of Armengeddon himself Perhaps the profession of Psychiatry is partially rooted in delusion. The delusion that we are somehow flawed and need "fixing". Please just consider it. the last time i looked Psychiatrist had one of the highest suicide rates here, i might have changed to a degree, but thats interesting that people would go to one that in many instances can't even help themselves with thier own problems?? hmmmm? PRECISELY! Case in point: I got my Masters in Psychology. 
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