are you illegal

illegal? LAWDY NO!! just a little humor!
My feelings on ILLEGALS? If you want to come to America good
on you BUT do it LEGALLY. For years now here in TN ILLEGALS have been
given the same rights to posess a legal and valid drivers license. Why?
who knows! Now Bank Of America is offering up checking accounts to all
ILLEGALS. HUH? Its time for America to
start focusing on our own back yards instead of other countries because
i am sick of seeing vets homeless, wee ones without health/dental/vision
and seniors writing out checks for HUNDREDS of their retirement dollars
monthly at the local pharmacy for medications they NEED to survive. I am
not talking about viagra but heart and diabetic medicine and supplies.
America needs to really do an OVERhaul on welfare here. At times i am
rolling up pennies or going without meals to insure my child can eat
thanks to the inflation only to watch an ILLEGAL using a FOOD STAMP
DEBIT CARD buying gourmet coffee and cooked and veined gourmet
SHRIMP. Then i watch them climb into a brand
new CAR and drive off as i am jumping into my ol bucket of bolts praying
it runs another year because i have a special needs child and my vehicle
is needed for specialist visits and his neurologist appointments for all
the different neurological problems he has had since birth. I am sick of
seeing soooooooo many decent americans serving our country proudly in
iraq and in my HONEST TO GOD OPINION start shipping the ILLEGALS who
cross our borders (especially the violent ones who return over and over
again)& hourly off to war. I will include deadbeat parents too because
that would be a win win situation for those of us NOT getting help from
that joke called child support ENFORCEMENT. Eliminate this crap of long
term POLITICIANS. Pay them minimum wage and lets see how many step up
and REALLY want that job?! You know I can remember several
times here in America ILLEGALS have been given the opportunity to GET
THEMSELVES LEGALIZED. Did they do it? NO BUDDY! they cried "i was
skeeeered", I cant speaka the english...blah blah blah. But learn to
speak MY NATIVE LANGUAGE as in invade america ILLEGALLY.
The only ones who are going to put a stop to ILLEGAL
ALIENS sadly will be us. The average american. The time has come and
personally I AM SICK OF IT. Its time to take AMERICA BACK.
If i have offended anyone i will say this. I am outspoken, got a big
heart, too generous tooooooo many times and i am not trying to be
offensive. Just honest.

Fine the people employing the illegals.
Take away the money & problem will end.
MONEY drives everything.
How many rich employ illegal house workers?

You're absolutely right 'oldsage',

MONEY DRIVES EVERYTHING!!!

And right now the money equation is against the legitimate gripes of the
'Fanta', 'Daniel', 'barbiebigsister' and a large and growing vocal
opposition from the 'people'.

The money equation to explain the whys of illegal immigration into the
US might be as simple as this:

Add: Widespread abject poverty and starvation in Mexico after US
corporations relocated their cheap-labor plants from the US-Mexico
border to Asia, plunging millions of low-wage earning Mexicans into
poverty (living near teh border because the pants were there).

Add: An extremely porous, under-enforced US-Mexico border. Which WA has
no intention of enforcing!

Add: LOW-wage pressures on the 'commodity' segment of your US GNP, and
US employers anxious to keep their commodity farms or manufacturing
business 'open', for more profits, and willing to exploit the poverty
and fears of illegal immigrants to do so, with the full collaboration of
your government.

Add: The federal government anxious to curry favor with , and garner
votes from, business owners and the Hispanic community...thus, willing
to under-enforce borders and immigrations laws, and ignore illegal
hiring by employers.

Add: In the late '80's, your SSA had tagged at 189billion$, the
correllation between 'illegals' (contribute but never collect), and
employers SSA contributions. Today, SSA has become dependent on taking
in $7 billion annually of contributions from illegal immigrant workers
who will never receive benefits from the system.


THE RESULT: Millions of illegal immigrants working for low wages and in
poor working conditions, grateful for "scraps to fall from the US table
of prosperity," per Dr. Groody.

Wealthier US businesses, and a much-richer Social Security
Administration, neither which reimburse local and state authorities and
taxpayers for the costs (education, health care, law enforcement and
more) associated with illegal immigrants.

And a very angry US citizenry, who vilify immigrants for being here,
rather than blaming the business owners who hire and exploit them, the
US government which lets them enter the US and profits greatly from
them, and the Mexican government which is happy to see them immigrate
out of their country.

"Our nation virtually posts two sign on its southern border: 'Help
Wanted: Inquire Within' and 'Do Not Trespass," says Pastor Robin Hoover
of Humane Borders.

"Without the help of immigrant labor, the US economy would virtually
collapse. We want and need cheap immigrant labor; in order for it to be
that cheap it must be 'illegal', but we do not want the immigrants."

Voil, has posted some exceptional replies to this situation in another
topic. There are so many ways to view this issue.

Here are a couple of issues that make it crucial for us to be more
attentive to the power the government should be wielding in the illegal
immigrent question.

I have known some small business owners in the labor trades,
construction, lanscaping, etc. Hard work, long hours, out in all kinds
of weather. Everyone I knew growing had family working in these trades,
it used to be middle income, however, that was when labor unions ruled
the. (remember that for a moment, I'll get back to it) It's not
anymore. The pay for this work, without unions, is not much more than
minimum wage. A single person has difficulties living on these wages.
The businesses, stated above, deal with tardiness, no shows,
complainers, theft, and that's with American citizens. Add to this the
major expence of running a business, not just overhead, but the amazing
amount of paperwork, state and federal assiciated with this business.
If payroll is weekley, there is not a week that goes by that most states
and the federal bureaucracy. Funny how they stay in touch with our
money, but don't worry about illegals. There are so many rules, taxes
requirements, paper requirements, OSHA requirements that the cost of
running the business actually puts small business owners out of
business. The solution, find workers, 'willing' to work and do that
work for low wages.
Not much paperwork needed for that, especially when there no reporting
to state or fed in this regard.

Remember I mentioned unions. It was unions that maintained the the work
force. Maintained it and policed it and would not allow illegal
immigrants. The union was the workers lobby force with the government.
The union made sure every worker in that union was entitled to and
received, medical and perscription insurance benefits at the lowest
cost, the best wage the market would allow, life insurance, berevement
funds, and retirement benefits 10 times better than what the government
has ever offered. It was propaganda the ended it. Why? It took away
the power of the government.

Now, I'm not saying I want unions back, what I'm saying here, is, for so
long the workforce PAID for someone else to look after their needs, to
lobby on their behalf, to know the law, to fight to add, change or
defeat the laws regarding thier very lives and lifestyles.

The small businessperson, is trying to stay in business. Those that
hire him, seeing the illegals, don't care, they are getting a good
price. On an individual basis we all take a bargain and rarely
question, why it's a bargain. This is why, and how child labor in other
countries existed for so long, because we never questioned it.

Each of us who live here, who were born here, are not exempt from
accepting and preforming a duty. That duty is to see that the
government is providing for, responding to, working with, all the issues
that it's people present that either prohibit, restrict or devalue, the
kind of life promised us as in a free, democratic society.

The small trucking fleet industry including owner-operators is among the
cheapest labor in our union. This is an industry that provides greater
that 50% of our basic needs. Now they are faced with high cost of fuel
too. I promise you they are not sitting back, they are among some of
the most comprhensive and knowledgable poeple, as far as government is
concerned, that I've met. Illigal aliens are infringing in their
territory, which infringes in our territory. The next time you are at
your grocery store, or in Meijer or Wal-Mart take a guess at what
percentage of the stock was shipped via truck! The truckers are
falling by the way side, they can not keep up with the cost of running a
business, when they can not get paid an appropiate amount for thier
transportation. You may have not noticed so many going out of business,
I'm sure, becuase the industry goes on, fueled by the low wage seeking
immigrant.

As individual citizens our voice may not be heard, or it may be ignored.
How do you really know, if your elected officials are casting their
votes according to the majority? We need to take responsibilty and that
means having the proof, documented. That means someone has to research
the current legislative session, reviewing those bills mandates, etc and
then bringing it to the people. Collecting signatures, and forwarding
these to your lawmakers. This is made easier still, with the internet,
that we all here, spend so much time on. Setting up a website for the
purpose of notifying your legislator is easy, and the emails can be
counted pro and con, and the politician is now held accountable for
backing new legislature, voting in accordance with their constituants
and actually representing the people.

The internet is the greatest tool to keep poeple informed and you don't
even need to own a computer, you just need to communicate, as we are all
doing here, with your neighbors, your friends, your co-workers. We have
been too long afraid of talking, of offending, it's time that we make a
social connection or our demecratic society will continue to degrade.

Individuals - unite! HAS ANYONE LOOKED FOR A WEB SITE THAT FOLLOWS
THE IMMIGRATION LAWS? IS THERE ANY ORGANIZATION THAT IS POSTING
INFORMATION IN THIS MATTER? Haven't looked lately but OOIDA.com keeps
abreast of the trucking industry, are there others?

In case no one wanted to read my long winded responce, thought I'd add
the most important part in a seperate reply.


Individuals - unite! HAS ANYONE LOOKED FOR A WEB SITE THAT FOLLOWS
THE IMMIGRATION LAWS? IS THERE ANY ORGANIZATION THAT IS POSTING
INFORMATION IN THIS MATTER? Haven't looked lately but OOIDA.com keeps
abreast of the trucking industry, are there others?

what it boils down to is theproblem stems from our current government.
Not the laws; not the paperwork; the politicians. To use an analogy,
our politicians are like a snake. and when you have a problem with a
snake what do you do? cut it off at the head, right? RIGHT!!!
We need to, as a people, go out and replace all of our politicians no
matter who they may be, that are not representing what we (the legal,
law abiding citizens; in other words the country) want. We need to put
new politicians in offie, and we need to put new guidelines and terms
into effect that will limit how long they stay in office so that we do
not end up with the same problem we have now. The president of the
united states can only serve two consecutive terms by election. WHY THE
HELL SHOULD OUR POLITICIANS BE ABLE TO SERVE ANY LONGER?!
The reason I clarified "by election" for the president is say the
president dies and the vp steps up to plate. He is not elected htere it
is automatic and does not get added towards his time in office.
What do you all say? Should we cut the snakes head off?

bunch of stuff comes up if

you web search immagration laws

Redykeulous,

You are one quick study!!!

And you've got to join forces with Fanta46. He's on fire over this one,
and has just switched his AIM on WA!!!

Please join him on the 'minuteman...' post, or e-mail him, or call
him!!! The two of you will make a great team, and move this chat topic
into constructive action!!!

Great work Red!

voileazur while I might agree with you on some topics I think your
motives for your arguments is more instigation than actual resolution of
the problem since you live in a country not directly effected by the
problem.

adj4u...
"the illegal alien problem could be helped by cutting the foriegn
aid(welfare) program and using the money to secure borders"

That would only weaken our allies in those foreign and strengthen our
foreign enemies (Venezula, Cuba, terrorists).

The best way is to build our neigbors economies in a way that it does
not directly compete with American jobs but supports them. If Mexico has
jobs then illegal wouldn't go over the border. Not to say that we should
send jobs over there but to build their economy. Say we have them send
their raw matierals, auto parts, crops, to us and we build the cars,
textiles, building product to the world.

Fitnessfanatic,

You almost make it sound like a disease! Instigate...

Never intended otherwise!!! I'm from Montréal! I'm not a US citizen.
I'm nothing other than an instigator in this cause.

Fanta appears to me like the best catalyst of solid and concerted
political action on this issue.

It helps move the threads away from petty and shallow 'illegals'
bashing!!! ... towards political solutions to a social and economical
conflict.

GO check him out on 'Minuteman'.