Aura testing to win 1Million dollars.
http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-50556.html


I have not read the entire thread. What are your thoughts on testing this ability JB?

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Looks like here is the actual test by the American medical Association.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/279/13/1005?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=emily+rosa&searchid=1137358227934_1768&FIRSTINDEX=0


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As far as time is concerned its real, it is a dimension, and we know this becuase it is interconnected with space, one cannot exist without the other. Time is a property of space, space is a property of time . . .


When space is warped, so is time. They are bound up in a relationship that is able to be mapped out via the mathematics of relativity.

I don't care what anyone feels is true or not about the subject matter, until your theory explains reality better then Einsteins he is right and you are wrong.

I will check out that link later thanks.

As far as what is "real" is concerned, we (the observers) make that decision and it is often an agreement.

I am not quite sure that I am clear on what a "dimension" is where(how) it relates to time. I hear the term "dimension" a lot and I use it a lot but I have never been quite clear on exactly what everyone means by it.

But where it relates to space, I see it as a measurement. (height, width, depth etc.) so if time is a "dimension," then I suppose it is also a measurement (or coordinate) based on the position of matter (within said space-time continuum) in relation to other matter within the same continuum.

So sure, you can call time "real" if you want. I have no objections to that description.

Yes, time is connected to space and one cannot exist without the other that is why I call it space-time, not "time" and "space." Sometimes I even refer to it a MEST. (Matter, energy, space and time.) All of these in this reality are inner connected.

Einstein's description of reality is confined to this particular space-time continuum. (This particular view of reality.) Yes he is correct.

That does not mean I am wrong.

It only means that I am looking beyond the boundaries of this particular space-time continuum.

I believe there are more. Actually I believe there are many.

Billy,

My impression is that it was poor and unscientific research of some clumsy 'debunkers.'

The AMA has a LOT to loose if people start learning how to heal themselves with energy work, or light, or positive thinking or herbs or anything that does not require drug therapy.

It would have been a simple task to get any results they wanted in these kinds of trials and that is exactly what these organizations do.

A healthy body is well equipped to heal itself. The food in this country is designed to make us unhealthy, fat, and dependent on doctors who prescribe drugs 95% of the time.

A huge resource of the drug trade would fall and half the economy of the earth would crash if even a small percentage of people could heal themselves with alternate therapy. (By alternate, I mean without drugs.)

The AMA and the FDA and the WHO... frankly I have little faith in them in general, and in order for me to be convinced I would have to investigate each and every person involved in a trial like that and I would want to interview them all or be there when the tests were conducted.

I'm a skeptic because I know how easy those things are to manipulate.

T.T. (Touch Therapy) and the Human energy field.

The conclusion of the test mentioned above according to the web page was:

"Twenty-one experienced TT practitioners were unable to detect the investigator's "energy field." Their failure to substantiate TT's most fundamental claim is unrefuted evidence that the claims of TT are groundless and that further professional use is unjustified."

But it has been proven that new born babies who are not touched and held in the early stages after their birth DO NOT THRIVE.

It is also said that babies that are simply left in their cribs and fed and changed with no other human contact do not do as well as babies who do have human contact.

Also it have been found that children who grow up with psychological problems (psychopaths) very often were neglected and not held and touched enough as a small child.

Whatever is going on with "touch therapy" I don't see that this "test" to of the practitioners ability to feel a human energy field has proven much of anything about whether the therapy works or not, nor does it disprove the existence of a human energy field.


Here is an article to read about that, but I don't really base my belief on this or any other scientific findings concerning the human energy field.

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Science Measures the Human Energy Field

Energy is a theme that permeates many areas of complementary health care, including Reiki. For historic and emotional reasons, two key words have not been mentionable in polite academic research society: "energy" and "touch." Hence it is not surprising that Reiki therapy has been neglected by mainstream biomedical science.

This picture is changing rapidly because of exciting research from around the world. The tale of how concepts of "healing energy" have swung from suspicion and ridicule to respectability is one of the most fascinating and clinically significant stories that can be told.

As in many other areas of investigation, what we were absolutely certain about 20 years ago has changed dramatically. For example, in a few decades scientists have gone from a conviction that there is no such thing as an energy field around the human body, to an absolute certainty that it exists. Moreover, we have begun to understand the roles of energy fields in health and disease. Most people are simply not aware of this research, and persist in the attitude that there is no logical basis for energy healing.

The main reason for the change in outlook is that sensitive instruments have been developed that can detect the minute energy fields around the human body. Of particular importance is the SQUID magnetometer (1) which is capable of detecting tiny biomagnetic fields associated with physiological activities in the body. (Figure 1) This is the same field that sensitive individuals have been describing for thousands of years, but that scientists have ignored because there was no objective way to measure it.



To summarize the discoveries that have been made, the editors of a new international journal commissioned a review of the concept of "healing energy" (2). While we have been researching this topic for some 15 years, the preparation of an in-depth review led to a thorough reexamination of the subject, with some unexpected conclusions.

For the most part, key discoveries are not being made by scientists studying methods such as Reiki, TT and HT. Instead, traditional scientists, following customary logic and scientific methods, have begun to clarify the roles of various kinds of energy in the healing process. Hence the picture that is emerging has the same scientific foundations that underlie modern clinical medicine. For details, see our published articles (3).

"The human energy field.

It has long been known that activities of cells and tissues generate electrical fields that can be detected on the skin surface. But the laws of physics demand that any electrical current generates a corresponding magnetic field in the surrounding space. Since these fields were too tiny to detect, biologists assumed they could have no physiological significance.

This picture began to change in 1963. Gerhard Baule and Richard McFee of the Department of Electrical Engineering, Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY detected the biomagnetic field projected from the human heart. They used two coils, each with 2 million turns of wire, connected to a sensitive amplifier. "

Read further:
http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/ScienceMeasures.htm

Static electricity:

There is probably a simple scientific explanation for why sometimes static electricity completely surrounds my body and I can't even get up and turn on the light without getting a significant shock.

If it were not apparently obvious that there was electricity there, scientist probably would deny that exists too, but touch me when this is happening, and you will find out when you get shocked. I am afraid to touch my computer sometimes because I could damage some files I am so electrified.

I have been sleeping with Downey fabric sofener sheets this past week. I know the cause of it are the soft fuzzy blankets sheets I am using on my bed, together with a heating pad, together with a radiating electric wall heater....But damn! I am shocking!

ok. now, i've GOT to try sex in a high-static charge situation.

I wonder if the discharge is through the pole?

hmmm....maybe I'll wait on doing that.
my bad. sorry.

Well you are a scoundrel!

JB babies have nerves that run to there brains, brains are the development center of the body, we are shaped by our sense, and experiences, without stimulus we do not thrive, this is all well understood with out your magic energy fields.

You have proved nothing, and neither has TT and that is why the scientific community isn't paying attention anymore, becuase real science explains things, real science provides us with real advantage, not random chance.

That test did prove something. It proved the claimant had no access to any kind of information that anyone else did not have access to.

Either there was no aura to read, or the claimant failed to read it . . . .

Thats science, we test, then accept the results if they are consistent. So when you have an effect (babies thriving with touch and failing to thrive without it) then you come up with a hypothesis as to why this is, then you test it, and find you where wrong, a real scientists will then look elsewhere to find the reason instead of beating there head against a wall that leads no where.

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The fact that all things are made of atoms, and all atoms have electrons means that all things have "energy fields" thats not the claim of TT, and HT. The claim is that they can manipulate these fields to effect healing . . . and it has never paned out.

So these electromagnetic fields effect the cells how?

Because we have a magnetic's lab, the largest in the world, in Tallahassee Florida, and we study these kinds of things all day long with various things, including live critters, and guess what, you can make an egg levitate with a powerful enough field, but guess what, we can analyze the position and orientations of the atomic structure and it reverts back to a random distribution in non ferrous materials EVERYTIME>

We also understand why this is. The problem with TT, and HT is they pretend they understand science take a few tidbits, and then fool the unwashed masses into giving them money.

There sure are things we need to understand more of, magnetic fields are pretty well known, the fact that the body's only source for a ferrous material is the iron in blood, and the fact that the body is comprised of 99% non ferrous material means that there can be no mechanism in the body that can self change the orientation of enough atoms (line them up with the same magnetic orientation) to cause any kind of real field. Organic bodies are very weak magnetically, and the physical effect of large magnetic fields are negligible on these types of systems, which means that even if you can change the orientation with a little touch and the tiny fraction of magnetic "aura" a human has it would revert back to a chaotic arrangement the second you stopped applying the MASSIVE magnetic field needed to change the orientation of a non ferrous material.

So humans cannot produce high energy magnetic fields, and even if we could it has no effect on other people. Guess what we have tested this! doh!

Homeopathy has also tried the magnetic route, your myths are a moving target, the whole energy field route was established first in homeopathy and its just as bunk.


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This is all off topic so I will create a thread on homeopathy and TT so we can thoroughly go over the idiocy of belief in this quackery.

These are not "my myths" and I do not believe in them. Nor would I pay anyone for TT or buy a magnet for therapy from someone.

I believe the key to healing lies within the person and the body, if it is in good working order, it can heal itself better than any of this.

However, I do believe that we have a human energy field. It is not detectable by the average person's senses, so I am not surprised this test had the results it did.

The reason I believe a person has an energy field is because on two occasions I have actually felt this field, and it was coming from two different (highly disturbed) people.

So it is from my personal experience that I form my ideas and theories, not from science or other people's claims.

I consider all information, but the most important has always been my personal experience.

The most clearly remembered experience of feeling a person's field can only be described as like walking into a bubble that extended at least ten feet all around this disturbed person.

I responded to the energy inside of this field the same way one might respond to fear of being attacked by an angry mob. I felt fear as the other person's anger, and aggression was coming at me. I felt threatened for no apparent reason. I felt as if I had stepped into someone else's space, and I felt their intent and desire was to do me harm. NO, kill me to be exact.

My heart quickened pace, adrenalin began to flow, the fight or flight instinct was activated.

After having stepped out of that field, all of these feelings disappeared, so I know it was not just me overreacting.

I don't forget experiences like this and just shrug them off like many people do. I make note of them for further consideration. They hold a lot of weight in my belief system.

The energy fields are not "magic" they are simply science. True enough, you will claim science does not recognize them. So what? They have yet to catch up to a lot of things.

Its all science Billy. There is no magic.

This was not any old person, this was one of the founders of TT, who claimed to have these powers, if you know someone who has these powers, you should urge them for the benefit of all man kind to submit an application for the JREF.

yes because we are only here for a moment in time and its all in how you define your time

great answer..lol

Then if he claimed to have these powers and was proven not to have them, then he lied. It is simple as that.

This does not prove there is no human energy field however, at least to me. But if some scientists want to make that conclusion and toss the idea in the scrap heap, then so be it. It's probably what they want to believe.

There will always be liars and con men running about selling their snake oils.

I keep seeing this same advertisement for a weight loss pill that claim's you will loose body fat just by taking the pill. No exercise, no changes in diet. I did a search and found out that the thing is a big scam and the company takes more money for the product from your card and sends you more product than you asked for and they don't give refunds they promised on the guarantee.

Plus, most people don't get any results.

http://www.ultimatefatburner.com/lipozene-customer-feedback.html

Scams are everywhere.

I recently got ripped off for a package that cost me $98.00 that I was told I could get my money back on plus a three year subscription to the artist magazine which I have not received and I'm still waiting for.

The banks can't do a thing. The law can't do a thing, and the only thing I can do is call the better business bureau and cry to them about it.

Excellent point, it follows the same logic as a similar paradox as one pointed out by the greeks, one was if you have to travel a given distance you must first cover half that distance and before that half of that on to infinity, it would seem that the distance to cover is infinite, if I shoot an arrow can its location be pin poiinted as when i do its location has cahnged each time as it is in constant motion, if this is the case it follows that its location is on constant change
, so where exactly is it? Maybe these two paradoxs imply an ultimate limit on the measurement of either space or time that at some point incriments can no longer be divided which is a paradox in itself. It implies that the foundation is something non existant.

OMG, do we really exist, does the time continum, does water exist, it is all a reflection of light that makes us see around us and we have named it, but does it exist. Does tangible exist over untangable?

No idea some clever people have started adding dimensions in a language I can not grasp.

A professor provided a thought experiment with a line of reasoning stating that 1 dimension objects only exsit with in 2 dimensional objects and we can percived 2 dimension objects because we have 3, therefore dimensions are dependant on higher dimensions for there existance, implying that our three dimension universe exist in a four dimensional unverse and so on. Whatever the conclusions some experiments and theories imply that there is more and it can not be intuitively grasped, in fact it is counter intuitive and contradicts our own experiences. See double slit experiment.

have spent many years alone and celebate... Time can be posative n negative... effecting on ones emotional sanity and health..... hurtfull or beneficial....hmmm....... Tell me..... do u value time?

.....Life is short......... Love all the time..... Forever with every breath as if it could be your last........... time is of essence....