I do not believe that anyone has a responsibility to "prove" anything to you, in regard to miracles, which you require has to be proven. You simply make a claim...and then require that people prove you wrong.

If your point is that there are no miracles, I suggest that it is YOU who should offer proof of what you state rather than demand that others do the work for you by not proving that you are wrong to YOUR satisfaction.

Furthermore, I suggest that what you are attempting to incite here is the classic argumentum ad ignorantiam (argument from ignorance):

Fallacious arguments from ignorance erroneously claim either that lack of proof must render a claim false, or that lack of disproof must render a claim true.

Despite the way it sounds, this fallacy does not refer to being ignorant of the facts necessarily, rather it refers to an ignorance of alternatives and of what constitutes proof. This fallacy muddles the true-false dichotomy with the question of proof or disproof, and as such is a form of false dilemma where only two options are presented when several options exist. The ignored possibilities include false claim-not disproven, and true claim-not proven, while the implied dichotomy confines options to false claim-disproven or true claim-proven.

An example of this fallacious argument would be the intent of this thread... the claim that if Christians, or anyone for that matter, cannot provide the demanded proof for “miracles”, then Christianity fails, further fallaciously implying or stating that miraculous intervention by God is not a fact, and still further fallaciously implying or stating that God (assuming He exists)must be incapable or unwilling to perform these miracles, which are under debate here. Such a concatenation of fallacies could fool only those who believe that you, in fact...know everything.

I was saved because of these miracles....so it would not matter what you said....It happen therefore it is...

See funch you babble but you say nothing....I said you could look at the truck as being sold as a coinsidence...didn't I now...for me I say no because it open the door for him to hear the word.

God has no limitations love and all is possible through him.


I was speaking to an athiest....pretty hard core.....He told me if your God is real tell him to sell my truck. I told him well first of all I can pray for your truck to sell but that doesn't mean that it will happen because it's on God's terms not ours. Now I knew that the door could be opened to this man if "God" made this happen. So I did pray for God to show this man that through "HIM" all things are possible. So I get a phone call a few hours later that he sold the truck to the first person that looked. So again a coinsidence....could be.....for feral no....because it totally opened the lines for communication.

Now the next part of the story. Same guy a few days later. We were talking and I asked him if he had a Bible. He said he did. Now my teachers hate when I do this...But I do because the Lord so works on people and truly opens their heart when I do. So I told him I want you to go get the Bible and I want you to come back on IM when you have it. He did. I then said ok let me pray....I prayed that the Lord show him what he needs to take any doubt that the Lord is real and wants to show him and help him.

So I got done and I told him now let the Bible fall open and I want you to read both pages and tell me what scriptures it is. He did so and said it was Psalm 67 and 69. So I got my Bible and read with him. I wept the whole way through because it was so geared to everything this man was going through at that time. Now he got done and then said to me, "Debbie what have you done", this is really creeping me out. I told him not me love but God. It was so so so right on for exactly what he was going through. So again God showed and they listened. Now in this case there were probably 5 more more things that showed him that God was real. Now he didn't turn his life over to God...But let me tell you one thing...God has his attention. Now the rest is between him and God...The seed was so firmly planted.

Very well then. Just insert "faith" in place of "miracles" and re-read. The logic still applies.

"ljcc" ...can you work with me here?...the thread doesn't ask anyone to prove the existence of faith ..it's about faith evolving into witchcraft ...it may get easier if you try reading the original post first ..just a suggestion

Well as far as I'm concerned you may as well have said that faith may evolve into crunchy cheese curls.

Bored now. Cya!

one can claim to have faith but once they try to wield it …it becomes witchcraft

Faith is knowing,

yep go lick your wounds

"JennieBean" ..if one "knows" then can you explain why they would need faith ...

if you know that you exist ...why would you need faith that you do exist ...this implies that you have doubts about your existence

No worries. You didn't hurt me. Was that your intent?

Good point actually.

Well then I guess faith is more like trust.

But it is not the same thing as Hope.

I know I exist. I have faith that there is a reason for my existence, so I don't question it.