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Topic: Didn’t We All See This Coming?
madisonman's photo
Sun 03/22/09 04:59 AM
March 21, 2009 "Information Clearing House" -- The country is coming to conclusions that a year ago would be unthinkable. The current turmoil on Wall Street has convinced many Americans of something that has been said for years, but nobody really believed…entirely. That something was that lawyers and bankers cannot be trusted. The American people know by now that the advice is largely true, they can’t be trusted. Neither can politicians, stockbrokers and financial advisors. In fact, people are starting to realize the entire concept of capitalism can’t be trusted, not just for the average Joe, but for the entire country. Capitalism is not your friend; it never has been and will not be in the future. It will continue to feed the rich, in fact, more than just feed them, but it won’t help the average wage earner realize the American dream. That’s never what it was designed to do. It was put in place to insure that the rich got richer and that the not so rich would stay where they were and to be grateful they could feed their families.

This isn’t the first time that capitalism has failed. Every time it fails we use a form of temporary socialism to shore up the economy. When things start to return to normal, we give everything back to the capitalists. Why is that? Could it be that we have no choice?

Ever notice how people equate capitalism with belief in God and country? They defend capitalism as if any other kind of government will lead them into slavery. The truth is that capitalism is an express ticket into slavery. Still, for every worker that recites a story of abject horror, there is an example of how the shining example of individualism embodied in the dogma of “free enterprise” has lifted a poor person out of his or her misery into nirvana. Pulling yourself up from your bootstraps is another way of contributing to the myth that capitalism works for everyone. I would like to see the ratio of millionaires that inherited their wealth vs. those that made their own money. If it were true that people surmounted the difficulties of amassing wealth and that many had truly “made it on their own”, the empirical evidence would be touted from every capitalist media outlet to every citizen in the country, just to prove that “free enterprise” works, yet it just isn’t there.

We Americans watch as our leaders try every trick in the book to grease the skids of our languishing economic system. We watch as AIG and other parasitic financial institutions grasp at every stray dollar they can con out of the people in a vain attempt to shore up their crumbling empires. The Federal government has allocated another trillion dollars to shore up the secondary real estate market and attempt to get Americans to buy real estate again. Meanwhile, Richard Cook, an economist that worked on NASA’s budget proposes that instead of trying to ignite the fires of consumerism with money given directly to large capitalist financial markets, the government could better stimulate the economy by giving citizens $1,800.00 vouchers monthly to pay their utilities and mortgages and to buy food and other essentials. This he claims would stimulate the economy by putting hard cash in the hands of consumers. Wouldn’t this be the end result the government is trying to achieve? Yet nobody takes this proposal seriously, at least not the government or those failing institutions with their sweaty palms out. Seems as they believe that money would be better off left in the hands of those that have brought us to where we are today, to hoard it or to siphon it off in undeserved salaries or bonuses, anywhere but on the streets so that consumers could spend it.

If one were to look back and take an honest look at the economy, they would see that writers such as me and many others on both sides of the political spectrum were trying to capture the nation’s attention five years ago when the Middle Class was losing almost two thousand dollars a year. This was happening year after year. Not only was the median income slipping, but benefits were being cut, full time jobs were being outsourced overseas and many Americans found themselves working two part time jobs just to keep up their mortgage payments. Some writers and economists were using phrases such as “class warfare” to shock some sense into the political parties and the employers. Still the government did nothing to alleviate the suffering of the hourly wage earner. It wasn’t until the situation started to affect the affluent did the government start to heed the warning signs.

Now it is a common sight to see a politician on a news clip railing at the excesses of Wall Street. Where were these politicos when the average wage earner was being cut from the American dream? Were they still listening to the vermin that call themselves lobbyists telling them that all was well? We can see now that we had more than enough time to understand that everything wasn’t at all well. The people that believed in the fairy-tale of “trickle-down” economics should have been concerned when nothing at all was reaching the lower end of the economic spectrum. They should have started becoming concerned when more businesses were going under, when people were cutting back on their medications so that they could put food on their families table.

This should really erase any doubts about the myth of unfettered capitalism. Unregulated, gluttonous capitalism didn’t just “appear” when Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers started to cry “Uncle!”. The signs were there long before that. This time when we finally realize that anything too big to fail should be nationalized, when we understand that government regulation should be mandatory when dealing with predators, let’s not take a giant step backwards and slide back into “free enterprise capitalism”, giving the reigns of financial power back to the people that only care about themselves.

timgatto@hotmail.com - http://Liberalpro.blogspot.com
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20077.htm

Serchin4MyRedWine's photo
Sun 03/22/09 05:50 AM
Sure, we saw it coming...but obviously you still don't see where it came from! Ask yourself how in only 200 years the USA has become the most powerful, biggest economic power in the world far exceeding any other country in the world. Countries that have been around for hundreds of years longer then us fell far behind because they are socialist and not capitalist. Socialism is the gateway to slavery, it makes people complacent and non-competitive. Why would anyone strive to be a success or come up with a new technologies if they will never see the rewards of that hard work...it just doesn't work and never will.
As for the this whole financial debacle, it was caused by the intervention of government, not because it wasn't regulated! This is what happens when government has a "partnership" in a private company, namely Fanny mae and Freddy mac. The government forced banks to give loans to people it knew could not afford them. HUD admitted last year to giving 5 million loans to illegal aliens who had no SSC#'s, no jobs and no way to repay these loans. This is just one example of the gross mismanagement of taxpayers money. In 2003 and again in 2005 legislation was brought before the congress to force Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac to stop making risky and unsecured loans, but was defeated in the banking committee largely by Chris Dodd and Barney Frank (also the two who got the biggest campaign contributions from Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac)and so this government controlled institution gave out loans like free candy. Obama even sued in Illinois court to force banks to give loans to people that had no work history(they used welfare payments as a source of income)and could not afford a home. This is NOT capitalism, it is forced Facist, socialism and clearly we are seeing the result of what happens when a socialist faction of the government trys to intervene in private business just to expand their power and voter base!

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 03/22/09 06:43 AM
You had me right up until you said capitalism was the enemy. This is a fallacy as capitalism itself has not caused any of this. Its a distraction.

You see, it a true, free market system the consumer has the power, not the businesses. The businesses need to appeal to the consumer in order to get their money.

Problem is, government sactioned capitalism. When you start to back businesses with the federal government while limiting all the ones that aren't, you have a problem.

Right now, there are a few major industries that are causing this push for more government control. You have the Banks, the military industrial complex, the pharmacuetical companies, and a small handful of others.

The reason they want more government control is simple...money. Being government run is a guarenteed success as the taxpayer money would go to help sustain the businesses.

As it stands capitalism is the system that allows the most freedom. Socialism, communism, facism, etc. all take away the ability to prosper from the average joe. They also take away the ability for the consumer to deny certain corporations their business as a great deal of taxes is put towards sustaining these entities.

no photo
Sun 03/22/09 07:02 AM
Every trick in the book has been played on us I feel for the past 20 years. Are we going to continue to sit back and let our lives be ruined and become a nation where we are taxed to the max, have government breathe down our backs watching our every move? This kind of activity creates and invites more crime in our society. It's time for taxpayers to clean house, a good place to start would be not to file taxes for 2009. Some 260 million people pay taxes in this country. And paying taxes for those that do not belong in this country pisses me off. By not filing, this might force our government to get off their lazy ass and realize we mean business when it comes to our own lives and our country, and keep the constitution in tact..As long as we continue smiling, we continue to be laughed at............:angry: :angry:

warmachine's photo
Sun 03/22/09 07:22 AM

You had me right up until you said capitalism was the enemy. This is a fallacy as capitalism itself has not caused any of this. Its a distraction.

You see, it a true, free market system the consumer has the power, not the businesses. The businesses need to appeal to the consumer in order to get their money.

Problem is, government sactioned capitalism. When you start to back businesses with the federal government while limiting all the ones that aren't, you have a problem.

Right now, there are a few major industries that are causing this push for more government control. You have the Banks, the military industrial complex, the pharmacuetical companies, and a small handful of others.

The reason they want more government control is simple...money. Being government run is a guarenteed success as the taxpayer money would go to help sustain the businesses.

As it stands capitalism is the system that allows the most freedom. Socialism, communism, facism, etc. all take away the ability to prosper from the average joe. They also take away the ability for the consumer to deny certain corporations their business as a great deal of taxes is put towards sustaining these entities.



Great response!
I would add, that we haven't actually had free market capitalism since 1913... when government intervenes in a market, any market, they drive prices up and quality goes down. One would only have to look at the health care industry to see this applied.

no photo
Sun 03/22/09 07:24 AM

Every trick in the book has been played on us I feel for the past 20 years. Are we going to continue to sit back and let our lives be ruined and become a nation where we are taxed to the max, have government breathe down our backs watching our every move? This kind of activity creates and invites more crime in our society. It's time for taxpayers to clean house, a good place to start would be not to file taxes for 2009. Some 260 million people pay taxes in this country. And paying taxes for those that do not belong in this country pisses me off. By not filing, this might force our government to get off their lazy ass and realize we mean business when it comes to our own lives and our country, and keep the constitution in tact..As long as we continue smiling, we continue to be laughed at............:angry: :angry:
Well considering the majority of tax payers have it taken out of their payroll check I dont see this doing anything. They already have our money....Personally we are getting raped in property taxes on homes that lost alot of value but we continue to pay the same if not more in property tax.

AndrewAV's photo
Sun 03/22/09 09:28 AM


You had me right up until you said capitalism was the enemy. This is a fallacy as capitalism itself has not caused any of this. Its a distraction.

You see, it a true, free market system the consumer has the power, not the businesses. The businesses need to appeal to the consumer in order to get their money.

Problem is, government sactioned capitalism. When you start to back businesses with the federal government while limiting all the ones that aren't, you have a problem.

Right now, there are a few major industries that are causing this push for more government control. You have the Banks, the military industrial complex, the pharmacuetical companies, and a small handful of others.

The reason they want more government control is simple...money. Being government run is a guarenteed success as the taxpayer money would go to help sustain the businesses.

As it stands capitalism is the system that allows the most freedom. Socialism, communism, facism, etc. all take away the ability to prosper from the average joe. They also take away the ability for the consumer to deny certain corporations their business as a great deal of taxes is put towards sustaining these entities.



Great response!
I would add, that we haven't actually had free market capitalism since 1913... when government intervenes in a market, any market, they drive prices up and quality goes down. One would only have to look at the health care industry to see this applied.


agreed. except a small correction in that we haven't had a real free market since Sherman in 1890.

As for Madison, the irony is that the companies criticized for taking every dollar they can out of the companies would not even have those jobs in a capitalistic environment. As always, the failures of the marketplace come from this fusion of free market principles and socialist ideology. If socialism had not reared it's ugly head, then these companies would have ceased to exist 6 months ago. instead, the government impedes capitalism once again by feeding companies that cannot recover like AIG, GM, Chrysler, and the various banks. The proof is in the statements in your cut and paste jobs. We are being ridiculed. They are sitting in their big, cushy, black leather chairs and chuckling at how they played the American people and the government. Neither is on our side. Moving back to a fully free market will, as drivinmenuts stated, put the ball back into our court and remove the sense of entitlement that EVERYONE has.

See, that is the downfall of socialism: you remove incentive and you remove individuality. Everyone is the same. You want a nice TV, stereo, and computer? tough. everyone gets the same. car? same story. Everyone gets a new car from GM based on family size. Trucks would just be for businessmen that require them. nobody needs to tow a boat if not everyone can have a boat. That is the nature of socialism. If you can't have more, you have no desire to work more. Even worse, even with the incentive now, people still do not have the desire to work harder. They'd rather fall back on mommy union to get more than their fair share for them but are completely contented staying right there instead of educating themselves to move up in management. Why? Because of some retarded union contract that does everything by seniority instead of actual worth leaves no chance for promotion until their card comes up. Others would rather sit at home and drink while they collect social services checks on their 7 kids. Our nation has lost it's way. We have lost the core values of hard work and have replaced it with this sense of entitlement that has destroyed the fabric of the American Dream.

Capitalism is freedom. Capitalism is the American Dream. The only enemy are those that attempt to take that freedom away from us.

nogames39's photo
Sun 03/22/09 12:07 PM
All awesome posts, guys! How many times one can say ditto?

Here is something to add.

Doesn't it shock you how a lot of people are openly considering socialism these days? It used to be, (when Americans were somewhat more educated), that just mentioning socialism would cast a dark shadow on a person's ability to think logically.

Not because of socialism being a casted out idea, but because folks around you, having examined the socialist way in detail, have already come to the conclusion that one has to be ignorant of economics, to suppose that socialism can work.

These days, 4 people out of 5 are flirting with socialist ideas, and think that there is possibly something good that can come out of it. Is it not an indication that 4 out of 5 Americans now are not only not educated at all, they also do not have any critical thinking facilities.

Mises said that when the government undertakes by itself and pursues any task, it will invariably end up achieving exactly the opposite of the stated goal. If that is true then the department of education has pretty much accomplished it mission.

nogames39's photo
Sun 03/22/09 12:10 PM
Serchin4MyRedWine,

Have you tried Khvanchkara? It is a sweet red wine from Georgia (the country).

madisonman's photo
Sun 03/22/09 01:02 PM

All awesome posts, guys! How many times one can say ditto?

Here is something to add.

Doesn't it shock you how a lot of people are openly considering socialism these days? It used to be, (when Americans were somewhat more educated), that just mentioning socialism would cast a dark shadow on a person's ability to think logically.

Not because of socialism being a casted out idea, but because folks around you, having examined the socialist way in detail, have already come to the conclusion that one has to be ignorant of economics, to suppose that socialism can work.

These days, 4 people out of 5 are flirting with socialist ideas, and think that there is possibly something good that can come out of it. Is it not an indication that 4 out of 5 Americans now are not only not educated at all, they also do not have any critical thinking facilities.

Mises said that when the government undertakes by itself and pursues any task, it will invariably end up achieving exactly the opposite of the stated goal. If that is true then the department of education has pretty much accomplished it mission.
One only need to look at health care to see how bad a "freemarket" system has failed. We have the most expensive in the world yet rank near the bottom in terms of care. This country has allways had a mixed economy being capitalism has been regulated. We get in trouble when we charge the Fox's with tending the hen house as is evident by our current mess.

nogames39's photo
Sun 03/22/09 01:24 PM

One only need to look at health care to see how bad a "freemarket" system has failed. We have the most expensive in the world yet rank near the bottom in terms of care. This country has allways had a mixed economy being capitalism has been regulated. We get in trouble when we charge the Fox's with tending the hen house as is evident by our current mess.


A regulated capitalism is not a capitalism at all. The whole point of why capitalism works, is that it is NOT REGULATED. Therefore, dumb people never get the money to waste.

To say that we had a capitalism that was regulated, is akin to saying that we have a child who is dead.

reesehunter's photo
Sun 03/22/09 01:46 PM
I'm sorry, I think the whole point has been missed. I learned a long time ago to rely on myself. That's who takes care of Number 1. I have worked long and hard, and I will never be rich. But, if I never worked another day in my life, I would be able to take care of my needs. I use no credit and will never need government assistance. That is going to end up being the bottom line.

yellowrose10's photo
Sun 03/22/09 01:51 PM

I'm sorry, I think the whole point has been missed. I learned a long time ago to rely on myself. That's who takes care of Number 1. I have worked long and hard, and I will never be rich. But, if I never worked another day in my life, I would be able to take care of my needs. I use no credit and will never need government assistance. That is going to end up being the bottom line.


how do you know you will never need government assistance????

madisonman's photo
Sun 03/22/09 01:51 PM
laugh


One only need to look at health care to see how bad a "freemarket" system has failed. We have the most expensive in the world yet rank near the bottom in terms of care. This country has allways had a mixed economy being capitalism has been regulated. We get in trouble when we charge the Fox's with tending the hen house as is evident by our current mess.


A regulated capitalism is not a capitalism at all. The whole point of why capitalism works, is that it is NOT REGULATED. Therefore, dumb people never get the money to waste.

To say that we had a capitalism that was regulated, is akin to saying that we have a child who is dead.
IAG laugh I wont even waste my time responding to this propoganda. You fellows had your chance for darn near 8 years and you damn near destroyed the whole planets economic system. Your solution more of the same? Good lord.

reesehunter's photo
Sun 03/22/09 01:57 PM
I know because I am terminally ill. I only have a certain amount of time left. I'd been saving all my life for a retirement that I won't need now.

yellowrose10's photo
Sun 03/22/09 01:58 PM

I know because I am terminally ill. I only have a certain amount of time left. I'd been saving all my life for a retirement that I won't need now.


sorry to hear that

madisonman's photo
Sun 03/22/09 02:09 PM

I know because I am terminally ill. I only have a certain amount of time left. I'd been saving all my life for a retirement that I won't need now.
I am so sorry also. Every day we walk this earth is to be treasured. Peace to you

AndrewAV's photo
Sun 03/22/09 02:14 PM


All awesome posts, guys! How many times one can say ditto?

Here is something to add.

Doesn't it shock you how a lot of people are openly considering socialism these days? It used to be, (when Americans were somewhat more educated), that just mentioning socialism would cast a dark shadow on a person's ability to think logically.

Not because of socialism being a casted out idea, but because folks around you, having examined the socialist way in detail, have already come to the conclusion that one has to be ignorant of economics, to suppose that socialism can work.

These days, 4 people out of 5 are flirting with socialist ideas, and think that there is possibly something good that can come out of it. Is it not an indication that 4 out of 5 Americans now are not only not educated at all, they also do not have any critical thinking facilities.

Mises said that when the government undertakes by itself and pursues any task, it will invariably end up achieving exactly the opposite of the stated goal. If that is true then the department of education has pretty much accomplished it mission.
One only need to look at health care to see how bad a "freemarket" system has failed. We have the most expensive in the world yet rank near the bottom in terms of care. This country has allways had a mixed economy being capitalism has been regulated. We get in trouble when we charge the Fox's with tending the hen house as is evident by our current mess.


On the contrary, I think we have the best healthcare system in the world. Sure, not everyone is covered, but if I break an arm, i go to the doctor today and get it set tomorrow at latest. Sure, I have to pay my deductible and 20% over that, but you know what? I don't mind at all. I'd rather have the comfort of knowing that if the need is there, I can get it taken care of. Not so in other nations with nationalized healthcare. Here, you are paying for the quality. We have the best medical schools in the world, the best doctors, not to mention some of the best research institutions. That has to be paid for somehow. I have no problem paying my share when I need it.

Sidenote, the fox is the government and big business. We're the hens. you think socialism is rule for the people? Far from it. Socialism will turn into rule by the elite with further disparity from the poor (all of us) and those running the nation (government/business execs). Sure, there's disparity now, but nowhere near what socialism would bring and at least we have the liberties that allow us to move up to the elite.

reesehunter's photo
Sun 03/22/09 02:14 PM
Thanks. I have learned that it is very important to put your priorites in order and then just enjoy everyone and everything.

yellowrose10's photo
Sun 03/22/09 02:15 PM

Thanks. I have learned that it is very important to put your priorites in order and then just enjoy everyone and everything.


you are a rare breed i will say. you DO have things in order....very impressive. i wish you the best!!!

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