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Topic: "First they came for the toilets..."
warmachine's photo
Fri 03/27/09 05:48 PM
by David Kramer at March 27, 2009 03:44 PM

Do you remember when many State and local gunvernments, in their infinite "wisdom," decided that the sheeple were wasting too much water when they flushed their powerful bathroom toilets? The gunvernments lowered the pressure in the gunvernment-run sewage systems. Of course, it now became more difficult to flush waste away, thus, people were forced into having to flush 2 to 3 times instead of once in order to dispose of the same volume of waste. In the end, they wound up having to use MORE water than they were using with the original environmentally-"unfriendly" sewage system.

Now here comes a story about another gunvernment boondoggle along a similar "sanitary" line. It seems that in the "progressive" state of Washington¹, certain dishwasher detergents have been banned because they are not environmentally "friendly." The problem is--you guessed it--the State-approved "green" brands are not nearly as effective as the traditional brands:

"SPOKANE, Wash. – The quest for squeaky-clean dishes has turned some law-abiding people in Spokane into dishwater-detergent smugglers. They are bringing Cascade or Electrasol in from out of state because the eco-friendly varieties required under Washington state law don't work as well."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090327/ap_on_re_us/bootleg_detergent

When it comes to the sheeple still believing after all these decades that gunvernments are here to "improve" their lives, does the expression "cognitive dissonance" ring a bell?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

¹In one way, Washington actually is progressive: It has no state income tax.


yellowrose10's photo
Fri 03/27/09 05:52 PM


sorry...had to take meds so my attention span is limited right now

boredinaz06's photo
Fri 03/27/09 06:08 PM
This is What Happens when We the Sheeple Allow What is Supposed to be a Republic become a Democratic Republic!!!

no photo
Fri 03/27/09 06:54 PM
So the state of Washington cares about it's environment. Wow what a horrible cause..

So instead of contacting the green companies that make the safe products to discuss how to make them work better, or contact the government to see how the problem can be adjusted, let's just sneak in the toxic products...

Let's use more water in the other case, instead of finding ways to solve the problem while having less pressure while we are experiencing water shortages. Let's bi$ch that we are having something taken away from us rather than seeing it as a nessessary measure until something better comes along. Oh and lets not be part of the solution that might require us to think, or to call the government to make suggestions.

I would seem that Washington decided that people when left to themselves will NOT care for their environment and were forced to make the decision for the people. Sad isn't it. We have environmentally safe products on the market, but people won't use them. So what we are saying is that if left up to the people, the next generation with live with the polluted world we failed to do anything about, and laughed at the government's response to our failure by mocking their effort. Interesting.

People want their freedom so bad, but fail to see that many times our freedom often comes at the cost of another and many times to ourselves. We want the freedom to use the toxic products we're are used to despite what those products do to our environment, an in turn to the people living in that environment..

Interesting that the industry that will never run of jobs is the health industry.. can't wonder why can we.... We will keep the health industry in business for a very long time, so let's give more people reason to need that health industry by polluting our environment at will. Love that freedom. Hell maybe our own environment will kill us off before our radical political and religious ones do.

Just a thought. We have had our pressure turned down here too and for good reason. Because too many people don't pay attention to water restrictions. If one takes just a bit of time to research there are solutions to be had even with less pressure.

no photo
Fri 03/27/09 07:01 PM
Wow, boo. That was great. No sarcasm intended.

no photo
Fri 03/27/09 07:04 PM

Wow, boo. That was great. No sarcasm intended.



Was it that sarcastic? Sorry. I wasn't trying to be, it just upsets me that we can't look at things from different points of view and try to come to a compremise instead of just dismissing the whole whole idea of protecting our environment and those who will live in it when we are long gone. I don't want to leave here knowing I cared more about myself than about the next generation.

no photo
Fri 03/27/09 07:09 PM


Wow, boo. That was great. No sarcasm intended.



Was it that sarcastic? Sorry. I wasn't trying to be, it just upsets me that we can't look at things from different points of view and try to come to a compremise instead of just dismissing the whole whole idea of protecting our environment and those who will live in it when we are long gone. I don't want to leave here knowing I cared more about myself than about the next generation.


I meant no sarcasm on my part. Your post was great. For many, freedom is just another word for selfishness.

Dragoness's photo
Fri 03/27/09 07:14 PM



Wow, boo. That was great. No sarcasm intended.



Was it that sarcastic? Sorry. I wasn't trying to be, it just upsets me that we can't look at things from different points of view and try to come to a compremise instead of just dismissing the whole whole idea of protecting our environment and those who will live in it when we are long gone. I don't want to leave here knowing I cared more about myself than about the next generation.


I meant no sarcasm on my part. Your post was great. For many, freedom is just another word for selfishness.



I agree. Freedom is by no means free. I don't mean in the way of the life of our service men and women although I am not discounting the sacrifice they give in any way. Freedom means self responsibility. The ability to not only handle ourselves responsibly but our ability to be responsible for our effects on the environment around us human and ecological.

We are responsible for this planet and the waste we leave for future generations. It is also our responsibility to try to conserve resources for future generations. If the policies developed to do this in our government do not work for whatever reason, we are obligated to find the methods that do work. That means at an individual level all the way up to the federal government level.

Winx's photo
Fri 03/27/09 07:22 PM
Edited by Winx on Fri 03/27/09 07:23 PM
That's interesting. I know that I wouldn't like my dishes like that when I take them out of the dishwasher. At the same time, I know how important it is to keep our waters clean.

I didn't realize that so many states were doing this with the dishwasher detergents.

I do wonder why the companies that make the dishwasher detergent think that their product, that doesn't clean well, is acceptable. Something definitely needs to be done about it.



no photo
Fri 03/27/09 07:37 PM
Edited by boo2u on Fri 03/27/09 07:39 PM

That's interesting. I know that I wouldn't like my dishes like that when I take them out of the dishwasher. At the same time, I know how important it is to keep our waters clean.

I didn't realize that so many states were doing this with the dishwasher detergents.

I do wonder why the companies that make the dishwasher detergent think that their product, that doesn't clean well, is acceptable. Something definitely needs to be done about it.


I don't know why all companies don't take responsibility themselves for their products and their impact on the environment, that way gov wouldn't have to make such laws. Could be there isn't enough clamor from the people to demand that companies be responsible to their customers. As for the green companies i would hold them responsible too, make products that are safe and that can be bought by everyone, not just people that can afford them.

I use old time remedies that are sound for the environment to clean, they make take just a bit more effort physically but I can afford them, where I can't afford many of the green products. Responsibility to me is when every one takes care and thinks about what they do that affects others around them. It's really not all that hard when it comes right down to it. I can live much more comfortably with far less than I ever thought possible, by simply learning what works and what's safe.

I also don't automatically assume a company is green either, or a health product is actually healthy, no company is beyond BS to sell a product.

Winx, I didn't know many states where doing that, I just learned Washington was in this thread. But again if the makers of detergent had been responsible in the first place why would it be needed for the gov to take steps to protect what they should also be protecting.

Thomas3474's photo
Fri 03/27/09 07:44 PM
Living in Washington state for 11 1/2 years I can tell you that they are the most radical state out there.Hardly surprising since it is run by hard left liberals.One of the main reasons I left that state was because you can't do anything with out the government butting into your life.I can give you a few more examples.

Illegal to wash your car in your driveway as they don't want soap going into the gutter.

Illegal to work on your car on a public street(I went to court over this one and if your hood is up on your car then you are working on it).

Cars left in same place after 72 hours can be towed.

The city recently removed all garbage dumpsters from the city saying it made the city look bad.Now garbage trucks have to make a average of 3 trips to pick up garbage a day instead of one.

Mandatory recycling.You will be fined if the garbage men find recyclables in your garbage.

No fires on public beaches.

Driving with suspended license will result in your car be impounded and auctioned off.And no you don't get to keep the money.

Coming soon...A 20 cent tax on all plastic bags.Ban on all styrofoam food containers.

Thomas3474's photo
Fri 03/27/09 07:51 PM
You might also want to read how Seattle spent $5,000,000 for 5 toilets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/us/17toilets.html?ex=1374033600&en=94cbd0bae42826fd&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

no photo
Fri 03/27/09 08:00 PM
Wow I should have thought about living there. So that's liberal left? Where do I sign up.. geesh.

Again if individuals didn't act as if others were their personal maids they might have not to go so far.

There is a little spot not far from me that you would swear is the most beautiful spot in the entire world. The other day I thought I would go down there and sit a while. Some butt head dumped two or three truck loads of garbage right in the middle of that beautiful spot. You don't want to know what I would have wanted to see happen to that person.

Ever seen a beach party after it was abandoned?

Ever notice people to lazy to sort their recyclables expecting others to do it for them?

People here are bi$ching about the government wanting larger fines for throwing garbage where it doesn't belong, well hell I wonder why. We don't want out government thinking for us, yet we force them do just that.

I live in a beautiful state, yet not everyone respects that beauty.

no photo
Fri 03/27/09 08:08 PM

You might also want to read how Seattle spent $5,000,000 for 5 toilets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/us/17toilets.html?ex=1374033600&en=94cbd0bae42826fd&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink


Now this is why goverment transparency is in order, the price tags is insane, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a good idea, just not well thought out. That doesn't mean you trash other ideas because one or another are fiscially irresponsible. Common sense goes for the gov as well as the people, and unfortunately the problem is on both sides.

Winx's photo
Fri 03/27/09 08:11 PM

Living in Washington state for 11 1/2 years I can tell you that they are the most radical state out there.Hardly surprising since it is run by hard left liberals.One of the main reasons I left that state was because you can't do anything with out the government butting into your life.I can give you a few more examples.

Illegal to wash your car in your driveway as they don't want soap going into the gutter.

Illegal to work on your car on a public street(I went to court over this one and if your hood is up on your car then you are working on it).

Cars left in same place after 72 hours can be towed.

The city recently removed all garbage dumpsters from the city saying it made the city look bad.Now garbage trucks have to make a average of 3 trips to pick up garbage a day instead of one.

Mandatory recycling.You will be fined if the garbage men find recyclables in your garbage.

No fires on public beaches.

Driving with suspended license will result in your car be impounded and auctioned off.And no you don't get to keep the money.

Coming soon...A 20 cent tax on all plastic bags.Ban on all styrofoam food containers.



Thomas,

St. Louis has always had laws about how long you leave your car parked somewhere. It's quite annoying when someone parks in front of your house and doesn't move it for 3-4 days. Also, you don't know if the car was abandoned or stolen and dumped.

Many cities have mandatory recycling now. I see it in some towns in IL and in St. Louis County. It's voluntary in St. Louis City. What's nuts about the city is that you have to pay to have the recycling removed. The county doesn't do that.

I already recycle soda cans and newspapers.

I have no problems with people being punished for driving while their license has been suspended.

Tonight I just paid .06 cents for each paper bag at a grocery store.
I'm going to re-use them.

yellowrose10's photo
Fri 03/27/09 10:34 PM
I'm all for helping the enviroment, but at what cost does is go to?

Thomas3474's photo
Sat 03/28/09 01:21 AM


Living in Washington state for 11 1/2 years I can tell you that they are the most radical state out there.Hardly surprising since it is run by hard left liberals.One of the main reasons I left that state was because you can't do anything with out the government butting into your life.I can give you a few more examples.

Illegal to wash your car in your driveway as they don't want soap going into the gutter.

Illegal to work on your car on a public street(I went to court over this one and if your hood is up on your car then you are working on it).

Cars left in same place after 72 hours can be towed.

The city recently removed all garbage dumpsters from the city saying it made the city look bad.Now garbage trucks have to make a average of 3 trips to pick up garbage a day instead of one.

Mandatory recycling.You will be fined if the garbage men find recyclables in your garbage.

No fires on public beaches.

Driving with suspended license will result in your car be impounded and auctioned off.And no you don't get to keep the money.

Coming soon...A 20 cent tax on all plastic bags.Ban on all styrofoam food containers.



Thomas,

St. Louis has always had laws about how long you leave your car parked somewhere. It's quite annoying when someone parks in front of your house and doesn't move it for 3-4 days. Also, you don't know if the car was abandoned or stolen and dumped.

Many cities have mandatory recycling now. I see it in some towns in IL and in St. Louis County. It's voluntary in St. Louis City. What's nuts about the city is that you have to pay to have the recycling removed. The county doesn't do that.

I already recycle soda cans and newspapers.

I have no problems with people being punished for driving while their license has been suspended.

Tonight I just paid .06 cents for each paper bag at a grocery store.
I'm going to re-use them.



Winx people should be able to live their lives they way they want to.If someone don't want to recycle something that should be their own right.I don't need the government telling me I can't wash my car,can't work on my car espically in my own drive way.I don't need them saying I can't use dishwashing soap,can't use platic bags,and can't use stryofoam cups.It won't be long before the stupid government dictates every aspect of your life from what you eat,to what you drive,to how you work,to how you spend your free time.It's people like you who just go along with it instead of standing up against it that just gets us closer to a Communist nation.

warmachine's photo
Sat 03/28/09 07:01 AM
Freedom is just another word for selfishness? My fault, let me just goosestep my way down to Greenpeace to sign up then.

If you read the article, you'd notice it took more water when they f'd around with the toilets. When they choose to F around with the soaps, people were running their dish washers more, because their stuff wasn't coming clean.

Isn't it odd, that for being enviromentally safe, that stuff seems to be two to three times more expensive than the everyday normal person cheap stuff.

Just a matter of time, before it's not "enviromentally safe" for fat people to eat at certain places (they've already tried that) or people are breathing too much, which expells carbon, by god, we're gonna have to regulate how many people there are and teach them how to breathe properly.

What clothes you can wear, where you can drive, what times you can drive, what kind of tires you can buy, who you can date... where do you let Government stop and personal responsibility and liberty begin?


no photo
Sat 03/28/09 08:45 AM
Tunnel vision, War and Thomas, you appear to have missed a point or several. Talk to me when people start taking personal responsibility and the government doesn't need to think for us.

no photo
Sat 03/28/09 09:34 AM

Tunnel vision, War and Thomas, you appear to have missed a point or several. Talk to me when people start taking personal responsibility and the government doesn't need to think for us.


Boo expresses my sentiments exactly.

As for this freedom issue. No one has absolute freedom. Society has the right to dictate that you drive on the right side of the road.

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