flip flop lollipop

i'm adding that one to my sayings lol

I Wonder if They Stuck these Murdering Sh!theads in a Room with Nothing But Nanci Pelosi's Pictures on the Wall if that Would Be Considered Torture?

So that absolves him of all his sins? Nice try.

I have no argument as to him being guilty or not. My point is that no one should have immunity from investigation and prosecution.

I agree, nogames. I am just trying to understand why we are starting these types of things now, when much worse was allowed and applauded in the past.

Yes! Definitely, but
Inhumane?///

Maybe we should ask cloudy! LOL

A newly declassified narrative of the Bush administration's advice to the CIA on harsh interrogations shows that the small group of Justice Department lawyers who wrote memos authorizing controversial interrogation techniques were operating not on their own but with direction from top administration officials, including then-Vice President **** Cheney and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

At the same time, the narrative suggests that then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and then-Secretary of State Colin Powell were largely left out of the decision-making process.

The narrative, posted Wednesday on the Senate Intelligence Committee's Web site and released by its former chairman, Sen. Jay Rockefeller , D- W.Va. , came as Attorney General Eric Holder told reporters that he'd "follow the evidence wherever it takes us" in deciding whether to prosecute any Bush administration officials who authorized harsh techniques that are widely considered torture.

In a statement accompanying the narrative's release, Rockefeller said the task of declassifying interrogation and detention opinions "is not complete" and urged prompt declassification of other opinions from 2006 and 2007 that he said would show how Bush Justice Department officials interpreted laws governing torture and war crimes.

These developments come days after the Obama administration declassified four Justice Department memos from 2002 and 2005 that revealed in detail authorized interrogation methods, such as waterboarding, which simulates drowning, sleep deprivation and putting detainees in containers with insects.

The drafting of the narrative began last summer, at the prompting of Rockefeller. The Senate Intelligence Committee staff drafted the document, with heavy input from the Bush administration, in a multi-department effort largely coordinated through the Director of National Intelligence's office.

Bush's National Security Council , however, refused to declassify it.

Obama's National Security Adviser, James L. Jones , signed off on its release last week and the Senate panel cleared it Tuesday.

Among other details, the narrative shows that:

— The CIA thought al Qaida operative Abu Zubaydah was withholding information about an imminent threat as of April 2002 , but didn't get authorization to use various interrogation techniques on him until more than three months later.

— Key Senate Intelligence Committee members were briefed on the techniques used on Zubaydah and Khalid Sheik Mohammed in 2002 and 2003.

— The Director of Central Intelligence in the spring of 2003 sought a reaffirmation of the legality of the interrogation methods. Cheney, Rice, then-Attorney General John Ashcroft and White House counsel Alberto Gonzales were among those at a meeting where it was decided that the policies would continue. Rumsfeld and Powell weren't.

— The CIA briefed the Rumsfeld and Powell on interrogation techniques in September 2003 .

— Administration officials had ongoing concerns about the legality of waterboarding as they continued to justify its legitimacy.

Cheney couldn't be reached for comment. Rice, through an aide, declined to comment.

As the narrative was released, various civil liberties and liberal activist organizations said they planned to present Holder on Thursday with 250,000 petition signatures calling for the appointment of an independent prosecutor to lead a criminal investigation into alleged torture.

Meanwhile, Republican Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina , and independent Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut wrote to Obama urging him not to prosecute Bush officials who offered legal advice about CIA interrogations.

While the senators deemed some of the legal analyses "deeply flawed," they said that criminalizing bad legal opinions "would have a deeply chilling effect on the ability of lawyers in any administration to provide their client — the U.S. government — with their best legal advice."

Sen. Patrick Leahy , D- Vt ., the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee , on Wednesday reiterated his call for an independent "truth commission" to examine the interrogations, and said that if Republicans wouldn't go along with the bipartisan commission, he'd seek an investigation through the Senate .

http://news.yahoo.com

http://pol.moveon.org/torture/?rc=homepage



Accountability for Torture

On Thursday, President Obama released memos showing that top Bush officials didn't just condone the use of torture--they encouraged it.
So far there's been no accountability for the architects of Bush's torture program. We need a full investigation and real consequences for those responsible - it's the only way to keep this from happening again.
Ask Attorney General Holder to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the torture program.
A compiled petition with your individual comment will be presented to Attorney General Eric Holder.

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices"......

Article 2 Section 2 US Constitution.


A legal opinion was asked for, and received. This is going nowhere.

Isnt it bad enough our last adminisration outed a CIA operative now this administration wants to prosicute them. I hope Holder takes into account what these CIA operatives do for this country to keep us safe before he goes prosicuting them. If they start that do you think we will have anyone in the CIA wanting to take on these jobs.

And I like how our president says one day they wont prosicute then the next day changes his mind. Only passing the buck to Holder so he wont have it on his hands. Seems like he is doing a good job of delegating a lot of responsibilty to others and not taking on any himself. IMO

The current CIA Director and previous CIA Directors were NOT for the release of these memos.

Obama opened this can of worms. If there are memos that prove these techniques in question revealed information that protected America I demand to see those memos too.

OHhhhh,,,
Poppycock!

There could be no proof showing the techniques either prevented attacks or that there could not have been more info gathered without using torture!

That is not the point!

The point is whether or not the law was broken!

Whether the Bush Administration overstepped the Constitution and our laws because they felt above the law!

You know
"The great Decider" mind set!

You stand and defend a President who walked all over the law in order to destroy American values and our reputation, and yet condemn a President who works his ass off trying to pull us back from the brink of that destruction!

Amazing!!!

"The Great Decider!"

The CIA Officials could not believe their instructions either!


The Director of Central Intelligence in the spring of 2003 sought a reaffirmation of the legality of the interrogation methods. Cheney, Rice, then-Attorney General John Ashcroft and White House counsel Alberto Gonzales were among those at a meeting where it was decided that the policies would continue.



The Bush Admin knew they were wrong!


Administration officials had ongoing concerns about the legality of waterboarding as they continued to justify its legitimacy.





Also, Obama's hand was forced by an ongoing trial in Britain and Canada, and a large contingent of Americans who are demanding accountability. Not just for this but other crimes as well!

Plus as more and more details are uncovered, and Obama's AG informs him to the extent of The Bush Administrations crimes, he probably felt he had no choice!


Obama always said he would leave the matter to his AG!

I think that there is time to do something. Why now? Well, why not?
We always do something the first time. We quit smoking, why now?
We get married, why now and not before?

Besides, the question of why now, would constitute a logical fallacy, by presuming that if something haven't been done before, it should be forever banned from being done, wouldn't it?

Yeah, let's see:

Obama worked his ass off about campaign financing - actions show he flip flopped.

Obama worked his ass off about earmarks - actions show he flip flopped

Obama worked his ass off about lobbyist - actions show he flip flopped

Obama kept Gates on as Secretarty of Defense - Geez, wasn't he a part of the Bush administrations foreign policy.

There has been no real change in any of those areas.

What about the banks - no real change their either. Geitner and Paulson were buddies. Just look at the people he keeps putting in charge. Check out his last appointment to re head up TARP.

Let's see what he has done - closed a terroist prison.

And you know it Fanta, Obama wouldn't go down this street unless his hand are forced.

Poppycock,indeed.

As far as I am concerned, this country had better stop worrying about terroist rights and start worrying about Al Qaeda getting their hands on Pakistan's nuclear weapons. Pakistan is on the brink of collapse. Where's the change in Afghanistan - 2 brigades, really.

I still demand to see all the memos and not just selective ones. It should have been all or none.

I already signed the petition.

Me Too!

bump!