Alex said...

so it's the women.

and now with what's ahead..if we are inevitably arriving in WW3, or the
fulfillment of so many prophesies, wouldn't this be a window of
opportunity to use the REAL FEMININE ENERGY to collectively design

a new era for humanity....

let's face it...we are the one's raising the future...if we don't walk
the walk , then we have sold out our gender like Oceans mentioned about
Thatcher etc.

how we raise our children, what we actively boycott , OUR ETHICAL
CHOICES, our morality...we as mothers are the first to show this to our
children, in how we treat them. how we treat ourselves and the world we
are so fortunate to inhabit. SO.

i figured ...as in "Pay it Forward"
i have raised 3 and they have already made clear contributions to this
goal with their lives...and so it goes

it's up to us...it's not just a daydream, it's just a life!

**************************************************

May I say thankyou to both you, and your daughter, she gave a great
gift...

I ponder...I look at this thought process from all angles...without
trying to be biased...

How to make changes?

Are they fitting within the society that appears in turmoil globally?

Are they already happening?

Is this trend towards non marriage, and single parent families...the
beginnings?

How to adapt these small changes, and to nourish them, to a more
positive outcome?

Are these thoughts of mine, applicable?

What would the impact be?

And so, I wander off, and stare at the ocean...and read...and
learn...and apply...

Click and paste Oceans:

Among rights which women held among the Native American tribes:
1) Children belonged to the mother's tribe, not the father's tribe.
2) If a marriage proves to be an unhappy one, each is at liberty to
marry again. What each person brought into the marriage, each take out
of the marriage. Women get custody of children.
3) When a man brought the products of the hunt home and gave it to his
wife, it was hers to dispose of as she saw fit. Her decisions were
absolute, even to the sale of skins.
4) A woman retains control of her possessions at all time, even after
marriage. They are hers to sell, give away, or bequeath as she sees fit.
5) Women ruled the house, stores were held in common.
6) Rape and wife-battering were almost unknown.
7) Women had the right to vote.
8 Treaties had to be ratified by 3/4 of all voters and 3/4 of all
mothers.
9) Women had the power to impeach a chief (they "removed his horns," the
deer's antlers he wore which signified his position.)
10) Women spoke in council meetings.
11) Women could forbid braves from going to war.

well we are the rumblings, look at you and i...we put words in each
others mouths...how many times have we shared that 'snap' of
syncronicity

we're doin it..we're doin it...

as we implement our ideas into our way of life and communication, for a
healthier and safer planet

Thank you Alex....It's nice to see this
And Fanta...for the facts of the women in my family

In Iroquois societies the couple resided in the woman's clan, around her
family so abuse and rape were almost nonexistent.

If someone committed a murder they were banished from the tribe, and
then would be considered fair game, and if saw could be killed by any
member. It was considered an obligation, and a honorable thing to do.
That's an idea, Aye?

Have you ever heard of the 10 chiefs of the cherokee that went to
London? The Cherokee honored their alligeince to England for a long
time. They were one of the few Native American nations to fight for
England during the french and Indian wars. Chief Junaluska saved Andrew
Jacksons life while fighting the creeks.
Then when he became President, he had them gathered, and forced on the
trail of tears.

Something like that???

Suckin up to the beauties again Fanta? I'm ashamed of you! (rock
on!)

Cherokee's are interesting man..

They are descended from the ancient mound builders. Part of the Irogois
until they were bannished and migrated here. That information was
attained through archeology. The Cherokees did not have a written
history or language, before the Spanish came here. (Desoto)

To the Cherokee, they sprang from the earth, had always been here. I
could get into this for hours, they were a fascinateing, very successful
society. They adapted quickly to European diplomacy.

A thought....

If you took all the postings in the Iraq, Bush and troops threads,
stripped them of their user handles, pics, and other gender indicators,
and then read them, it would be pretty easy to tell which had been
written by men, and which by women.....




Oceans

Yep.

You and Alex are raising very fundamental and interesting questions,
Lee. Thank you both.

Oceans

Fanta, thanks for the Cherokee information. No need to think that you
are describing obsolete patterns, is there? Sounds quite applicable to
modern times, modern needs.

Oceans

Dreaming.........

I wonder...does this need to be rebuilt?

What will be the catalyst?

Seems gently working in the necessary changes,to a larger scenario, are
a real challenge...

And although we are doing it...walking it...working it...what will it
take for an expidential change to occur?

Will it be a WW3 type scenario, a culmination of prophesies?

I am so grateful for the Cherokee wisdoms, Fanta, they echo the
Australian Indigenous...and although most has gone...Matriarchs are
still primary within their culture, even with intergation to european
ways.

I'm going to express myself here, not back it with facts or anything ,
simply give my thoughts and opinions....


For a time I thought having a gun was the solution to my fears, bad
marriage to an evil man, so having the gun made me feel safer..until I
realized my fear gave him continual control over me even though he was
long gone.I've been raised around guns , spent my life around them used
them for hunting..though I prefer a bow..
I no longer own one..I am no longer legally allowed to for reasons I
will not go into..but now I refuse to own one I don't need one.

Violence begats violence.....one person shoots in anger and another does
and so on and so on ( that begat word I learned from AB) get rid of
the weapons and teach people to solve issues through other means and
this can work, call me a dreamer if you will but my gut tells me this is
the right thing.

guns are sweet, hunting is great fun and just shooting things in general
is fun.

it seems that we long far what the human race has been longing for as
long as there has been communities, our ideal of our utopist world.

it would surely be nice, wake up and lisen to the news only to hear the
good news. but reality is what it is, and although we may desire what we
percieve to be the ideal- people are what they are, individuals. we all
think differently. which is the way we are, thankfully, for if we were
all the same then what would our purpose be, nothing more than a cattle
waiting for the butcher- grazing in a field just buying time.

the 'perfect' world does not exist many have tried to force their
beliefs on others throughout history in search of the perfect world,
dating as far back as written history. the realist excepts the fact that
you can not please all the people all the time and tries to make his/her
little section of the planet perfect for them.

i wish you all the luck in the world in your montey python quest for the
holy grail. in the mean time- feel the love, peace.

Spoken like a true man.


Thankyou for the visual displays...couldn't have done it better myself
if I tried..


You just re-inforce my train of thought....

ummmm, is that a bad thing? "like a real man"?

Historically,


Men have been messing this whole she-bang up, with their decisions,
their violence, their dominance...

Makes me wonder how differently it may have looked...with the shoe on
the other foot.

And just what a 'real man' may have looked like now...not bidden by
violence, and arrogance, and the all-mighty belief of omni-potence,
spoon fed to them, through out history.

Something else to ponder....thankyou.

oooops

true man.