>> Correct me if I am wrong, but I read that you feel business will benefit
from taxing internet sales.

Absolutely wrong. Where did you get that from?

You can already get on the Net through Amateur Radio without a service
provider. The service providers know this. They are just trying to shut
out the loop holes in the Net.

Okay, who will be your ISP? who will collect the money? Are you going to
bury your own cable? Where will you bury it to? Your access point will
be what? I think we are arguing two different points.

What is your bitrate on ham? slower than 56k? Lots of hammers around,
eh? Yeah, let me jump on that bandwagon with my call sign.

Yup. You nailed the problem. A lot slower for sure. KC5DVY

Zap, If you are asking those questions, then this is clearly an
entirely new idea for you. Are you approaching this with an open mind?
From a purely technical standpoint, the potential for mesh networks is
mind-blowing - it remains to be seen how pervasive they become. We are
a a consumerist society, and people are more inclined to just pay for a
service than do it themselves.

My *personal opinion* is that the best use of open frequencies would be
to support those kinds of networks - not give them to companies that
have a vested interest in -holding us back-.

Of course I'm all for companies providing a needed service and charging
for it! But when the natural progress of tech changes the rules on
them, and then they start paying politicians to make decisions just to
protect their revenue stream - then I see a 'problem.' Sadly, it seems
this is the 'normal' way to do things.

That would be it. (paying politicians to make decisions just to
protect their revenue stream) But like I said, I think we are on
different frequencies, over?

>> I think we are arguing two different points.

Zap, re-reading the whole thread, it appears to me you were arguing with
me for no reason whatsoever. Or more accurately, that you thought I was
saying something entirely different than what I was saying.

It seems to me that you resent the government forcing you to pay for
their wastefulness, yes? Me too. But I also resent corporations that
manipulate the situation so that millions of consumers miss out on an
opportunity to get the same services without paying the corporation.

>> Okay, who will be your ISP? who will collect the money?

There is an open question as to exactly how and where the mesh network
will interface with the internet as a whole. We have been conditioned
to think of that bridge as something we should pay for, and that is
wrong. Yes, we should pay when a company builds towers to provide our
access. Yes, we should pay when they invest in burying cable. Yes, we
should pay when they run a cable to our house. And we should pay as they
maintain all those things. Because this is how domestic net users have
always had their internet access, we are conditioned to think that we
should pay to make the bridge onto the internet at large.

My apologies massage, I knew something was askew. I was talking about
companies being forced to collect sales tax for out of state customers.
As Rosanne Rosanna Danna so eloquently put it........
NEVERMIND!

>> opportunity to get the same services without paying the corporation.

I should have said "to provide -ourselves- with the same service, and
thus not need to pay'.

My personal opinion? Good luck. It will be as screwed up as the welfare
system. Someone has to run the show and that doesn't fit your plan.
Either way you look at it, it will turn into a business. Collective or
otherwise. I would like to see it happen but I won't be placing a bet
anytime soon.

Zap, my previous posts were out of sync with the thread. Thank you! I
very much hope that the silent readers do not mistake my words as being
related to the taxation issue. I was responding to the OP, which spoke
of handing over (presumably selling) certain frequencies to big
business. I don't think thats the best way to use those frequencies.

>> It will be as screwed up as the welfare system. Someone has to run the show and that doesn't fit your plan. Either way you look at it, it will turn into a business. Collective or otherwise. I would like to see it happen but I won't be placing a bet anytime soon.

Zap, these are totally fair comments as a 'first impression' to a 'new
idea'. But wouldn't it be wise to learn more about how this works, or
how it might work, before being too dismissive?

Oh, and as far as it turning into a business - I hope so! Mesh
networking is NOT anti-business, not at all! It simply has the
-potential- to take some share away from the =ISP= business.

Massage, con you say more about what a 'mesh network' is? What is the
architecture?

Thanks,
Oceans

Nope, you're good, man, it was MY brain fart. I am more than a little
pessimistic about it for the simple reason that congress does nothing if
it doesn't benefit them by screwing business or the middle class to
support their runaway spending on inefficient programs. Example: We did
an ADA bathroom remodel. We weren't the highest bidder so we got the
job. 23k, cool. The county rep said they needed it to come in at 42k
because they were near the end of their budget cycle and needed the full
invoice so they could cut the check before 12/31 so it would help use up
their allocated budget.We started the job Jan. 4th. A three bedroom
split, with a bathroom that is nicer than at the Hilton. Your tax
dollars at work. The child was a quadraplegic who looked at the ceiling
all the time. Custom 6X6 roll in shower tiled with marble to the
ceiling, overhead rain shower (not a good choice but was it really for
the kid?)Custom built (in our shop) vanity with granite top, and on and
on and on. They got their money's worth with all of the amenities
including a $600 220V towel warmer, but who really benefitted from it?
Pardon the cynicism, but I see and hear about it a lot in my industry as
I am sure that other businesses benefit from the government's
inefficiency. Wanna make good cash? Contract for the govt.

Hey! They didn't bleep out "fart". Fart, fart,
fart, fart, fart, fart, fart, oh ****! They ****ing bleeped out ****!
Son's of b****es, **** me!

Oceans,

Like all terms, the meaning depends on the context - I believe (?)
that the "proper" meaning of the term in network design originally had
to do with the topology of the network, nothing to do with wireless vs
wired.

Recently, the term has become used so much to describe wireless mesh
networks that its become synonymous - so when people say 'mesh' they
mean 'wireless mesh'.

In this thread, though, I was talking about something even more
specific, which is the creation of a city-wide wireless mesh network BY
PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS. Of course, someone could also set up a city-wide
wireless mesh network in which all the nodes are owned by one company,
and charge access to the network, but that wasn't what I meant in this
thread.

The "Do-it-yourself wireless mesh network" I'm advocating would be
one in which a great many people, having already purchased their own
wireless devices, make their device available to carry traffic for other
people. In exchange, the other people carry traffic for them. As the
costs for longer ranged wireless transmitters drop, and as wireless
devices become more common, it will eventually be easy to blanket an
entire city with individually owned nodes.

i don't use an ISP


i am a pirate...hehheheheeee

i could rant and rave...ya'd like that eh?? lol can be good drama at
times,
but this is an important issue and i don't think i need to explain ...i
don't right?..


PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION!! TO KEEP OUR WORLD WIDE WEB OPEN!

The City of Hendersonville just installed a city wide wireless net. Is
that what you are talking about Massage? I dont know much about it, but
they made a big deal of it in the local news.

I remember some people were complaining about the cost to the taxpayers.
Therefore it cant be cheap to install.

Another reason for the government, might be due to the military running
low on available frequencies. They are beginning to use frequencies that
are used by Garage door openers. I was reading where in Ohio (I think
Ohio) people were complaining that their garage doors were opening by
their self. The military said it was caused by tests they were doing,
with those frequencies and admitted fault! They said they had a right to
the frequencies, and had just loaned them until now, because they were
not needed. Recently they have been running out of available frequencies
and need them.

Maybe this is an attempt to free up more frequencies. Just a guess, you
and Zap would know better than I.

Fanta,

Just to be clear, the system in Hendersonville is not at all what I
was talking about.

However, that kind of system is another, separate example of a
'potential good use' of those frequencies.

You are right about how we are running out of frequencies, which
strikes me as a good reason to exercise caution before giving (or
selling) them away.