Subject of O.P. -- "Defining "Spirit."


I will define spirit as I see it is most commonly understood and as I understand it.

My definition:

Spirit is consciousness. It is the potentiality of being. In this universe it seeks expression in forms.

It is a moving thinking stuff like a current, that exchanges information with itself. It manifests mind and body and inhabits these things in order to live and exist.

When you ask if spirit is 'physical' it is like asking if the finished artwork is the artist. Not its not, but spirit occupies the physical and it occupies all form.


Some others understanding of the word:

A non-physical, possibly conscious entity or life force.
The force of Life.
A ghost or a thinking conscious soul or non-physical entity.

and others see no reason for the word. much like the word "god".

I'm sure there are. But still these same people use that word a lot. I am simply defining the word and what it means to me and some others.

I would go further to suggest that spirit is at least as well-defined as spacetime and a quantum field, and in my view both of those concepts are indeed recognitions of the properties of spirit.

In science a concept of spacetime is imagined to exist so that we can speak of gravity in terms of being 'warped' spacetime rather than being 'warped' nothingness.

In science a concept of a quantum field is imagined to exist so that we can speak of particles as popping out of a quantum field rather than just popping out of nothingness.

As far as I can see, these are just labels that attempt to label the unknowlable so that it can be referred to via a word. But both of those words: spacetime and quantum field are just recognitions of the magickal properties of spirit (i.e. properties that appear to be physical yet arise from seemingly nothingness)

So in a very real sense science has already confirmed the existence of the intangible spirit via their intangible concepts of spacetime and a quantum field.

Of course, the scientific knowledge of these things is extremely crude and it's safe to imagine that the true nature of spirit consists of far more than the properties that we have assigned to these imagined entities of nothingness that we call, spacetime and quantum field.

Spirit also embraces consciousness and awareness and desire, intent and will, along with other properties. Everything arises from spirit ultimately. There's no getting around it. Even science has named this "nothingness" at least twice! So even they have verified its presence. Even if they don't understand it.

Spirit is the life force or energy in us all. It is energy and we feed it with our action, emotions, interactions, projections, etc... If we are or act or react with, selfish, angry, jealous, hateful, inconsiderate, disrespectful, warring, dishonest, any negativity then our spirit will be sick and unhealthy.

If we feed it with positivity it will be healthy and will shine out of us sharing this positive energy with all living things around us.

Speaking from personal experience here.

Very good point. You've describe properties of spirit just like scientists describe properties of spacetime, etc.

When approached from this point of view it's not necessary to define the underlying concept, because it's the properties that are important. The underlying concept is implicity defined by its observed and experienced properties.

I’m not even sure that “defining spirit” is a sensible endeavor. To me, spirit is not defined by things, it is what defines things. I guess the simplest definition I can come up, for myself, is – spirit is “I”.

I think Abra’s comments on Dragoness’ post express the problem pretty well. Like the “quantum field”, it can only be defined in terms of it’s effects. There is no possible way to define it in terms of its “composition” because there are no components. The best that can be done is to say that “it’s where stuff comes from” or “it’s what makes thing come into being” or even (and maybe most accurately) “it is what ‘becomes’”.

One can say “I am a Doctor” or “I am Joe” or “I am a human being” or “I am an emergent property”. But those expressions all say that there are two things – “I” and the thing that “I” becomes. “I” is not the things that it “becomes”, “I” is the thing that becomes those things. Or one could say it this way: “I” assumes the identity of those things.

JMHO.

Very elegantly stated Sky.

spirit is when you're all fired up for your football team to win

Are you sure you're not confusing spirits with booze?

Spirit in its essence cannot be defined.

For we are a mighty multitude.

spirit is the link between what mankind is and That-Which-We-Might-Become.

spirit is the link betwenn what mankind is and That-Which-We-Were.

Spirit is that which we are.

Well this is a good example of what I meant when I said that words have different meanings to different people irregardless of what someone has put in a dictionary. I just wanted to define the term according to the common understanding of the word in general, and here I see many different ideas about what it means.

I think I have proven my point as far as semantics is concerned. We own language and we the people will use it how we see fit.

Well, anyone who expects a rigid definition for a word like spirit is already being unrealistic. Spirit is often defined as something that is beyond comprehension anyway.

Also, what would be the common definition? There are so many different religions and spiritual views throughout the world, and therefore the definition of spirit would depend on who you ask.

For me personally, when it comes to something like science, the definition of spirit isn't going to be like the definition of an electron. I can't just give a physical description of spirit so that a scientist can go into the lab and search for evidence of the "God Particle". That would be ridiculous to even think of spirit as being a manifestation of spacetime like that.

If we're going to equate spirit to things in physics it needs to be equated to the fundamental essence of everything, like I've already suggested, like spacetime itself and the quantum field itself. Spirit isn't going to be like an electron.

So can scientists go into the lab and verify the existence of spacetime or the quantum field? The answer is no. At best all they can see are the properties that arise from these mysterious non-physical "things". And, as far as I'm concerened, they have already have postulated the existence of these things and they've given them arbitrary labels like spacetime and quantum field. They could have just as easily called them spirit and be done with it. They don't know what gives rise to these properties. They just come out of nowhere like magick.

As far as I'm concerned they've already verified the existence of spirit twice and they just gave it the wrong name both times.

Well you have a strange way of looking at things. I am being practical.

I would not define spacetime or the quantum field as "spirit" because I know that would not be understood. The three things are different concepts. (spacetime is not spirit, it is an environment. The quantum field is "the body" or the form, which is also an environment.) Environments for life and consciousness are universes.

The "common" meaning of the word "spirit" may be a bit generalized and vague but it is the one that probably about 90% of people you stop on the street would agree on. I think Dragoness had a very common definition that most people would agree on. Others might say that a spirit is a soul, or a ghost or the essence of life or God.

Your average Joe on the street will not give it a lot of thought and will not espouse about the quantum field or spacetime.

We can't all be philosophers. Some people are just people living their lives as best they can.

Well, I would certainly agree with you on this. I didn't mean to imply that spacetime and the quantum field represent the totality of "spirit" but rather they confirm the existence of some of the mystical properties of spirit. (i.e. that seemingly 'nothingness' can give rise to form).

Take away the concepts labeled "spacetime fabric" and "quantum field" and then you have no choice but to refer to the properties that have been assigned to them as arising from "nothingness".

So in a very real sense they are just labels for "Magickal sources that can't be explained".

In this sense they are no different from a concept of spirit. They are just fancy labels to replace the more truthful phrase, "Magickal sources that can't be explained".

What is spirit but a magickal source that can't be explained.

All we do is take this a step further and say, "Spirit is all that exists", and by recognizing this it follows that spirit is not only that which gives rise to what can be experienced, but it must necessarily then also be that which experiences.

So along the lines of what Sky was saying, "Spirit is what becomes", but it is also that which experiences what becomes.

The precise details of how spirit becomes what it becomes seems to be the only real question.

Science had originally thought that things must become according to very strict absolute laws of cause and effect as in the Newtonian Clockwork universe.

However, that was OLD science. Modern science has shown us the folly of that orginal thinking and we now see that the art of becoming is far more liberated than had been previously believed. This is what some people refer to as an 'observer-created' universe. But a better term might be 'observer-manipulated' universe. And we know that we can indeed manipulate our universe. In fact, most people believe that they have the freedom to exercise their will based on thier own desires and intent. And that truly is the difference between a clockwork determinisic universe and an 'observer-manipulated' universe.

I personally feel that it's clear that we live in the latter.

But yes, I agree to "define" spirit as simply spacetime or the quantum field would be a gross injustice. I didn't mean to confine it to those definitions. I simply meant that those concepts have already recognized a "few" of it's obvious capabilities. In other words, they are merely scientific observations and recognitions of the power of pure unexplainable magick.

I've often hear that the words used by other cultures that get translated as 'spirit' also mean 'breath'.

Some would say that 'spirit' is 'that which animates life'. Which could also be synonymous with metabolism.

I would call these epiphenomena related with the human experience.

WOW that resonates with me. It was when I was practicing deep breathing exercises that I had a very enlightening spiritual experience.

Breath. Yes.

As metaphor I love your guys ideas. In fact I have held such ideas since childhood. At 6 in fact I can remember a moment where Epiphany lead to unity and I was awestruck with the depth of that seeming knowledge. Stuck literally staring at the sun.

The difficulty is that knowledge is by its very nature supposed to separate things (this acts like so and such, that interacts in this way) not unify them . . . . .it becomes a bit challenging for a six year old to to wrap his little mind around. (as in not possible for any of us at any age)

I mean if you want to reduce all of the amazing complexity of the macro world into its most tiny parts and smash them into uniformity in time and space then unity makes sense (and is postulted in a physical since in inflation theory, but you loose that richness. I see no reason to posit spirit, I do see a reason in expanded space to speak of fields of interaction. I see no reason to posit some grand holder of knowledge, of information to plan out this onion. If you want to talk about actual, and even possible phenomena within any such fields . . . regarding any possible theoretical forces, particles, or waves that also interact within or at higher dimensions to each other, I am fine with that . . .

But word soup offers no meaning, making unverifiable claims does not knowledge make. Food for thought is fine . . .

You know what is interesting, Hisenburg actually hated when poeple tried to visualize the phenomena with metaphore ect.

Its quite interesting reading his actual writings . . and illuminating to the ad lib I have read . . .

Ill post some quotes we can talk about, but one thing at a time next comes deepak.

I would like to add that if anyone asked me what I would suggest to them for good health, vitality, and spiritual growth I would have to tell them that focused deep breathing is what they should seriously practice.

My deep breathing experience literally changed WHO I WAS overnight. After a strange light appeared in the room and then just disappeared, I thought nothing of it. Coincidence I said.

BUT
The next day, I was transformed in some way. I completely walked away from my current life and "friends" because I was so transformed I could not abide them or their activities and attitudes any longer. I had no interest at all in that mindset. It was like they were living in an evil angry chaotic world. They held anger, fear, worry, revenge, greed in their hearts, and suddenly, almost over night, I was aware of a permanent feeling of joy and gratitude and love for life.

Transformed over night I was. All from deep breathing.

Try it.

Maybe "spirit" really is breath.