I believe they have it on the police force too, or at least to a point.
After a fairly grislycase. lets say involving the death of a child, most
stations by my understanding have a mandatory time frame for the
officers involved to go to couinseling just for the chance to let it out
and unwind.

Daniel your point that they have this on the police force is a good one.

I'm a little in the middle here.

In the link there was the following comment:

"Twenty percent of the soldiers in Iraq screened positive for anxiety,
depression and acute stress, an Army study found."

From what I see type 'A' personalities often induce that sort of stress
upon themselves, including anxiety, depression and to a much lesser
extent acute stress. I expect that more soldiers get that particular
kind of acute stress than the general public.

I have to say though that many may have a predisposition to this sort of
anxiety which may be brought on by their experiences in Iraq or simply
brought out early by their experiences there.

Mental disease is a complicated thing, the leading method for management
of mental problems currently is medication of one form or another. All
the phallic stuff and Freud has been largely discounted and nobody gives
much credence to related psycho therapy with endless sessions of "how
was your childhood" and such. So basically medication is the accepted
answer for most situations involving mental issues.

If the army refuses to take this approach in favor of therapy, well
maybe they are behind the times of the miracle happy pills. On the
other hand maybe they are trying to make a reasonable choice of helping
people to cope with their troubles without medication. Group discussions
and therapy might facilitate the necessary calming needed in many cases
where people are marginal. I suppose they have to start there.

I'm not sure I got the point that the veteran services were negligent,
as the person starting the topic was implying. How about this: try a new
news source besides MSNBC. Mostly they are just looking for heart
strings to yank this way and that.

I expect the vet services are making informed decisions about these
matters and trying to do the best they can. I see some light in the
tunnel because this government is trying to be considerate of the
soldier's needs and take proactive steps to help them after service.
When you see the gov't tell them all to go to hell and bugg off then
you'll have a more valid point, but you and I both know you aren't going
to see that.

Dont get me wrong, I believe in Freud and (scrolling down to double
check the name lol) other phallic thoughts. I am trying to get a degree
in counseling as it is.
However, the problem I am seeing is that in some cases yes medication IS
needed. A good example is bipolar disorder. For those that do not know
let me give a bit of spychology lesson. BIpolar consists of two polar
issues just like it sounds. These issues are depression and mania.
Depression is actually a uni-polarity, or a one sided polarity. As is
Mania (which is the dead opposite of depression)
I am keeping this extremely simple and a lot will get skipped over due
to this, but you get the idea.
Now, someone with BIpolar suffers from both mania AND depression. In
other words, they go from one extreme to the other, and they have no
control of the process cause it is a chemical imbalance that causes it.
It is widely believed that this imbalance is due in part to the brain
not producing neccesary chemicals or not enough of them to maintain the
balance.
Now what causes the brain to not produce these chemicals when it used to
do so with no questions I dont think anyone knows.

Now, in order to treat bipolar you need both ocunseling AND medication,
obviously in order to balance out the chemical issues. And it is like I
said it is to treat, not cure. To the best of my knowledge bipolar is
not a cureable problem, but hasd to be under medications for the rest of
their lives to keep the balance.
Some bipolar patients are just fine and capable of working and leading
normal lives as long as they maintain their meds, others arent.

Now with all this said, the va does not want to declare someone
disabled. This is an arguable belief for many reasons but it is
obvious truth when you look into everything and when you go through it
yourself. The main reason they dont want to is they do not want to pay
he soldier the pention they would be authorized for a service conencted
disability. Now this IS my opinion yes, I have no way to prove it. But
I ask that you watch and read up and start looking into how veterans are
truly treated/untreated.

and one final thing to remember. In my ex-wifes case she is admitted to
Psychiatric care due to an inability to care for herself at this time,
and the inability to make sound rational decisions due to the fact that
her bipolar is so severely out of order. It is definitely only a
temporary hospitalization but it is until she can care for herself.
now, you wanna know something real scary? That said she is allowed to
sign out and wander the city ON HER OWN WHILE UNSUPERVISED any time of
day she wants as long as she makes her group sessions and sees her psych
for five minutes one day. This very same hopsital allowed her to shack
up with a fellow pstient the first time she was there, IN HIS ROOM N THE
WARD (even though sexual promiscuity is one of the primary identifying
factors for mania disorder). This has already been proven and
investigated by the local da after I informed them of hte issue. Wether
or not anything will come of it I have no idea.
But my point in all this gibber gabber is that the va is not as squeeky
clean good for the public as it likes to appear, and they do everything
they can to cover this up.

just to let some in on how the stuff works with the army and mental
illness (well here at the 101st).

first you get referred either by yourself or by someone else to go see
the mental health people, you attend your first "session" which is
nothin more than an indepth questionier, especially when it comes to the
war stuff, questions like how many times have you been under fire, how
many times have you seen people shot, dead etcetera. then its into your
family life, love life, prior army life. if you have ptsd from iraq,
then they take into account the how many times bloody stuff questions,
if you havent seen it then you do not qualify for combat related ptsd-
pretty simple. if you do then it is on to what is called a "meb" or a
"mmrb" both of which are medical evaluation boards, one puts you out of
the army the other keeps you in but transfers you to a different job
(that supposedly you can handle).

there is a lot to it trying to get out of service- bare in mind some
people dont want to go to iraq so they try everything they can whether
it is saying oh im gay to snorting cocaine to gaining weight to failing
pt test over and over and over again. its pretty tough for a person who
is bonafiably f**ked up to get out. having said that, ive seen people
walk out of a board with upwards of 60% disability, 30 for mental
illness related to COMBAT. then there are the settlements, a year salary
up to 18 months at your pay grade. everything is worth X amount- just
like within most work places, fingers eyes legs all worth a different
amount. sucks but such is life.

100k check for a spouse of a dead soldier on top of the 400k life
insurance policy we all have.

but anyway maybe im missing the sensative side of this, just like the
guy in the link provided by the poster, i get fed up with all the crying
about it, grow up or get out, better yet dont sign up for it in the
first place- hey if you enlist (freely your descision) and dont expect
to go to war then maybe your not smart enough to join,

but hey im just a guy who patches people up



doc

and ooops,


they do treat with meds by the way, love to pass out the drugs to
people. thought i'd pass that along.


doc

Daniel, I'm so sorry to hear about your ex's ordeal. It is little
comfort, I know to hear that she is not alone in how she is being
treated.

Recent estimates are that 40% of Army combatpersonnel coming back from
Iraq suffer mental incapcity of varying degrees of severity, requiring
treatment. Within that figure, the PTSD numbers are iffy, as it is a
struggle to get the Army medical personnel to certify the problem.
About 30% of the Marines come back with some level of medical
incapacity.

Volatile anger and violence, intolerance, fear of being out in public
places, paranoia are among the core symptoms.

The returnees go to Walter Reed army hospital. Those with PTSD are put
into the mental ward, alongside people with schozophrenia, etc. They
receive minimal treatment (e.g. 1 hour/week one-on-one care with a
psychiatrist), and only a few hours a week in group therapy sessions.
Walter Reed acknowledges the inadequacy of the care, and state that they
do not have enough money to attract the needed psychiatrists.

Soldiers are being dismissed from the hospital and service with some
sort of disability payment, and yet they are not fit to return to
civilian life. The concern is that they may be walking time-bombs, with
deep unresolved anger issues, or suicidal with deep depression.

I sense that this is going to be a problem that will confront America
for years to come. It is a human tragedy of immense proportions, and
will continue getting worse until we evacuate. It will be easy for
civilians int he US to treat these men as ogres, but it is this
country's actions in those theaters that has made them what they have
become. They deserve and in a sense have earned our deepest compassion
and help.

Oceans

Hi doc, been awhile, happy to read you. Your info on the life insurance
surprised me. Is this something fairly new?

I find the idea of 'combat' life insurance quite fascinating, especially
in the amounts you describe.

Imagine some questions:

Who, in this government, researched and decided what insurance agency
would be used?

What agency (must be a pretty huge corporation)would back something so
dangerously precarious, unless of course there are things they know,
that we don't?

What are the premiums to this company for this coverage, and who
actually gets the policy? or more to the point,
Is there actually a policy for the 'insured' and the insureds' family to
review? That would be an interesting read.

Knowing how our government works, when it comes to dealing with major
corporations, I wonder about kickbacks too.

And I wonder about the payouts too. For example, if one is not directly
involved in a battle, but is taken out by a sniper, or an illness, while
deployed, does the policy pay out? And On whose authority are the
circumstances of death determined for payout to take place?

Here's an idea, why don't you try going to an insurance company and
asking them how much a $400 K life insurance policy would cost you? I
just wonder if any would even insure a soldier being deployed to a war
zone, or how much it would cost..

I must apologize if my cynicism in government matters is showing, but it
is cynicism this government has earned over many miserable years of
exploitation of it's citizens.
Daniel has a personal story, but it is only one. I could tell you many,
I have friends who work for the VA, some who quit because they could not
stomach the lack of concern by this government in all areas of care.

These are issues that have to be made public, and sometimes
sensationalism is the best way to get them noticed by the people, as a
whole. Many think that theirs is a personal case, a single issue, they
are not even aware that there are thousands who are in the same boat.

Doc, you may think NOW that you have made this choice and that you are
willing to take whatever comes your way. But, I would like to think
that we "the people" took steps to make the changes necessary, to assure
that you will never have to suffer, needlessly, or alone, either
medically, emotionally, or financially, because this government refuses
to honor those who would give their lives for it's protection.

I say, let the sensationalism begin, let it reek havoc and let the truth
of people's true stories be known, and while we're at it, we might just
take a serious look at this insurance thing too.

Doc,
I understand the problems in the military of people looking for a
profile to avoid duty, but I think in this case it is better to err on
the safe side.

I believe it would be better to let the professionals, like Alex, weed
out the shammers during treatment than to let someone in need of help be
missed. These professional are trained and educated to recognize PTSD
better than us, and when the fakers are revealed punishment can then be
administered.

This is a real problem and is not confined to American Soldiers or to
this war alone.

I found this site, it talks about the problem from a soldiers point. It
talks about the studys done from as far back as WWI till today. It also
talks about the problem that the American and Australian Army
experienced with soldiers coming home from Vietnam. It is an Australian
Vietnam Vetreans site!
Check it out, it is in depth and in laymans terms so it is easy to
understand! It is an Australian Vietnam Vetreans site!

http://www.vvaa.org.au/experience.htm

damn doc GET BACK ON THOSE MEDS!!!!

for the insurance questions red, I dont knwo about a combat insurance
versus the normal sgli (sodliers group life insurance), but when I was
in the soldeir could opt to have the premium (I think it was 20 or 30
dollars a month) taken directly our of their check. And it was for
however much the soldier chose, up to 200k. This insurance was paid out
no matter what the circumstances of death (escept of course suicide);
wether the soldier was deployed or not, wether death occured while on
duty or on leave, did not matter.
As far as who the policy carier is, I believe it was department of the
army or somewhere up there, not an actual insurance agent. But I could
be wrong on that as I never aske myself.
Now as far as there being an extra 100g insurance for COMBAT soldiers I
have no clue. there wasnt when I was in but that may have changed
since.