mirriam websters two cents

Noun 1. scientific fact - an observation that has been confirmed repeatedly and is accepted as true (although its truth is never final)



kind of makes religions scientific facts too,,,,but its all subjective I suppose,,,

No probs...and thanks...

there still is no f*cking god...

That's not true.

First off, I don't necessarily believe a lot of history. Also, from what I understand the Vikings supposedly discovered America before Columbus. But in truth I really don't care who discovered America. I didn't know Columbus so it's just a name to me, it may as well have been Mr. Pumpernickle. It's just a name to me.

Secondly, the Bible doesn't even come close to qualifying as a 'history book'. The people who wrote it were not educated or qualified historians, nor did they collaborate with independent and unbiased sources to verify their information. On the contrary when you read the gospels it's crystal clear that they are starting out with an extreme agenda to make a particular case. They aren't even presenting various views and offering the reader to make up their own mind. They are going far out of their way to try to convince the readers of their agenda even to the point of things like claiming that a voice spoke from heaven itself proclaiming that Jesus was the son of God.

That's clearly not a history book, that's as mythological at it gets. And it even came from a region where these kind of mythologies were commonplace, right up to, and including Gods who are appeased by blood sacrifices. It isn't even an ORIGINAL myth that hadn't already been done before.

Finally, if you want real knowledge try science. That's the only TRUE WORD OF GOD. You can't get get any closer to God than that.

First off you don't believe a lot of history for it is hearsay and there's no way to give it solid proof. Yet the culture does consider it history. Same with the bible. And no thank you I don't wish to learn science. I'll put my attention to our father. At least our father doesn't change every now and then. God is who he is and has always been who he is. He doesn't change with the whim of people.

I addressed this in another thread.

The New Testament was written by less than a dozen authors. All of whom clearly had a strongly biased agenda to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ".

There is absolute no opposing views in the Biblical Cannon, yet we know with absolute certainty that such opposing views clearly existed. The the very culture from whence these myths supposedly came rejected them as having no merit! The Jews are still not Christians to this very day.

Secondly, there's no comparison with science. Science is the result of thousands of independent unbiased individuals working hard to prove each other wrong, or come up with alternative explanations and evidence. To do so would instantly make them famous and win them a Nobel Prize, every scientist's dream.

You don't wish to learn science, instead you choose wallow in the unsubstantiated myths of less than a dozen highly questionable clearly biased authors who's views weren't even accepted by their own culture?

Hey that's your choice. But to ask other people to think that way isn't likely to go over very well.

I'll take the unbiased and highly confirmed information from thousands of honest people who are sincerely seeking TRUTH and who are working hard to show when something might not be TRUE. (i.e. Scientists)

If you want to place less than a dozen ancient religious zealots on a pedestal and worship them as speaking for God, then be my guest. But don't expect me to accept that method of seeking "Truth".

That's just absurd, IMHO.

The Jews are still not Christians to this very day.

I addressed this in another thread.

The New Testament was written by less than a dozen authors. All of whom clearly had a strongly biased agenda to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ".

There is absolute no opposing views in the Biblical Cannon, yet we know with absolute certainty that such opposing views clearly existed. The the very culture from whence these myths supposedly came rejected them as having no merit! The Jews are still not Christians to this very day.

Secondly, there's no comparison with science. Science is the result of thousands of independent unbiased individuals working hard to prove each other wrong, or come up with alternative explanations and evidence. To do so would instantly make them famous and win them a Nobel Prize, every scientist's dream.

You don't wish to learn science, instead you choose wallow in the unsubstantiated myths of less than a dozen highly questionable clearly biased authors who's views weren't even accepted by their own culture?

Hey that's your choice. But to ask other people to think that way isn't likely to go over very well.

I'll take the unbiased and highly confirmed information from thousands of honest people who are sincerely seeking TRUTH and who are working hard to show when something might not be TRUE. (i.e. Scientists)

If you want to place less than a dozen ancient religious zealots on a pedestal and worship them as speaking for God, then be my guest. But don't expect me to accept that method of seeking "Truth".

That's just absurd, IMHO.

Secondly, there's no comparison with science. Science is the result of thousands of independent unbiased individuals working hard to prove each other wrong, or come up with alternative explanations and evidence. To do so would instantly make them famous and win them a Nobel Prize, every scientist's dream.

I addressed this in another thread.

The New Testament was written by less than a dozen authors. All of whom clearly had a strongly biased agenda to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ".

There is absolute no opposing views in the Biblical Cannon, yet we know with absolute certainty that such opposing views clearly existed. The the very culture from whence these myths supposedly came rejected them as having no merit! The Jews are still not Christians to this very day.

Secondly, there's no comparison with science. Science is the result of thousands of independent unbiased individuals working hard to prove each other wrong, or come up with alternative explanations and evidence. To do so would instantly make them famous and win them a Nobel Prize, every scientist's dream.

You don't wish to learn science, instead you choose wallow in the unsubstantiated myths of less than a dozen highly questionable clearly biased authors who's views weren't even accepted by their own culture?

Hey that's your choice. But to ask other people to think that way isn't likely to go over very well.

I'll take the unbiased and highly confirmed information from thousands of honest people who are sincerely seeking TRUTH and who are working hard to show when something might not be TRUE. (i.e. Scientists)

If you want to place less than a dozen ancient religious zealots on a pedestal and worship them as speaking for God, then be my guest. But don't expect me to accept that method of seeking "Truth".

That's just absurd, IMHO.

If you want to place less than a dozen ancient religious zealots on a pedestal and worship them as speaking for God, then be my guest. But don't expect me to accept that method of seeking "Truth".

I have no need to prove anything. Christians are the ones who need to prove their claims.

I'm just telling you why I don't believe any of it. I don't care whether you believe me or not.

Cheer Up wrote:

Well Abracadabra i just did i proved there was as the Bible stated Noahs ark and the scientist say they found part of the ark so now what ?????? is science wrong too? or did they find the ark? that was from the bible? and why is 3/4 of the earth covered in water? and if you have nothing to prove in here then why are you trying to prove the bible wrong and the writers wrong??? so you seem to just to contradict yourself alot i see what i see is you just like to try and put down stuff that is true and also see you don't listen or i should say watch when people give you a logic answer i also see you love to argue with alot of people in these threads about nothing you know about cause you said people got to prove? in other words if your mind can't take in a knowledge of a true fact then not sure what people can do if you ask a question and get a logic answer and proof then its very simple to understand :))))) GOD BLESS

I'm not trying to prove anything. If you think I am that's your own misconception. I simply give my views as to why I personally don't believe the claims that the Bible represents the word of any all-wise God. I offer my reason and I do consider them to be sufficient "proof" for me. If you disagree, fine.

Moreover, I don't need to prove that the Bible is "not" the word of any God. Who cares?

You are the one who appears to be on a mission to convince people that it is. Thus the proof of that is entirely on you. You are the one who is in need of proving your claims if you expect to convince people of your claims.

All I'm doing is explaining to you why I don't buy into your claims.

Again, allow me to offer some of my reasons:

1. I personally don't believe that an all-wise supreme being would be appeased by, or associated with, blood sacrifices to atone disobedience.

I'll grant you that this is merely my personal view and opinion. And therefore I don't need to prove it. It's how I feel.

You'd have a hard time trying to prove to me that the biblical God isn't associated with these things. I'm pretty sure that you would need to re-write the Bible in order to do that.

So you're next best approach might be to try to convince me that this should somehow make sense. Good luck with that too. As a mortal man I feel that I'm personally above such primitive and crude behavior, so why should I even remotely believe that a being that is supposedly infinitely wiser and more mature than myself would be associated with such ignorant behavior?

From my point of view, this is just more Zeus-like mythology. How is it any different? It really isn't in general terms. And most people dismiss Zeus without a second thought.

So, I've already rejected the Old Testament on many grounds, (this being only one of many). And the New Testament is even worse since it contains a blood sacrifices of a supposedly innocent man for the purpose of atoning sins. It's just a continuation of what I have already dismissed as being totally unreasonable and unintelligent.

So I see no reason whatsoever to believe the rumors that these stories have anything at all to do with any supposedly 'all-wise' God.

Now, to close the case forever, I even have a perfectly sound explanation for all of these biblical stories.

1. The Old Testament is nothing more than a Zeus-like fable.

That makes perfect sense.

2. Jesus was a Jewish Mystic who was knowledgeable of the ways of Mahayana Buddhism, and he was probably also a Bodhisattva. This all fits in perfectly with the moral values that have been attributed to Jesus, as well as his behavior with his "disciples". The moral teachings of Jesus fit perfectly with the moral values taught by the Mahayana Buddhists, and do not match the teachings in the Old Testament at all.

3. The New Testament is just rumors about the life of Jesus that try to make him out to be something that he wasn't. Obviously in an attempt to use the rumors about him to support the very religion that Jesus himself apparently disagreed with, IMHO.

So there you go. I don't need to "prove" any of these claims. They are clearly possible, and that's all they need to be. They are reasonable. Far more reasonable than the idea of a supposedly infinitely wise God who is associated with blood sacrifices, IMHO.

~~~~

So there, as you can see, I haven't tried to 'prove' anything. All I did was offer reasons why I don't believe it, and I offered a very reasonable explanation of how it all came to be in the first place.

From my point of view there are simply far better pictures of God and spirituality to be had. So I see no reason to believe in a picture of a God who condones things such as blood sacrifices and male-superiority, etc.

I just have no use for those kinds of things. They appear to me to be the types of things that would be associated with an extremely unwise and unintelligent being. Therefore I see absolutely no reason to believe that these stories have anything to do with any all-wise God.

You can address my concerns if you like, but I seriously doubt that you are going to convince me that an all-wise being would be associated with the rude and crude things that are associated with the Bible.

To be perfectly honest with you, it makes me quite sad to see people constantly proselyting those rude and crude ideas, especially when they use them to support religious bigotry against all other religions, and to support hostile feelings toward the lifestyles of others simply because their biblical god supposedly doesn't like certain things, and to support ignorance over scientific knowledge.

So, yes, I see the religion as being disruptive to peace, and the intellectual advancement of mankind. And I confess that I don't appreciate that in the least. From my point of view it's a cancer on humanity.

1. I personally don't believe that an all-wise supreme being would be appeased by, or associated with, blood sacrifices to atone disobedience.

I'm not trying to prove anything. If you think I am that's your own misconception. I simply give my views as to why I personally don't believe the claims that the Bible represents the word of any all-wise God. I offer my reasons and I do consider them to be sufficient "proof" for me. If you disagree, fine.

Moreover, I don't need to prove that the Bible is "not" the word of any God. Who cares?

You are the one who appears to be on a mission to convince people that it is. Thus the proof of that is entirely on you. You are the one who is in need of proving your claims if you expect to convince people of your claims.

All I'm doing is explaining to you why I don't buy into your claims.

Again, allow me to offer some of my reasons:

I personally don't believe that an all-wise supreme being would be appeased by, or associated with, blood sacrifices to atone disobedience.

I'll grant you that this is merely my personal view and opinion. And therefore I don't need to prove it. It's how I feel.

You'd have a hard time trying to prove to me that the biblical God isn't associated with these things. I'm pretty sure that you would need to re-write the Bible in order to do that.

So you're next best approach might be to try to convince me that this should somehow make sense. Good luck with that too. As a mortal man I feel that I'm personally above such primitive and crude behavior, so why should I even remotely believe that a being that is supposedly infinitely wiser and more mature than myself would be associated with such ignorant behavior?

From my point of view, this is just more Zeus-like mythology. How is it any different? It really isn't in general terms. And most people dismiss Zeus without a second thought.

So, I've already rejected the Old Testament on many grounds, (this being only one of many). And the New Testament is even worse since it contains a blood sacrifices of a supposedly innocent man for the purpose of atoning sins. It's just a continuation of what I have already dismissed as being totally unreasonable and unintelligent.

So I see no reason whatsoever to believe the rumors that these stories have anything at all to do with any supposedly 'all-wise' God.

Now, to close the case forever, I even have a perfectly sound explanation for all of these biblical stories.

1. The Old Testament is nothing more than a Zeus-like fable.

That makes perfect sense.

2. Jesus was a Jewish Mystic who was knowledgeable of the ways of Mahayana Buddhism, and he was probably also a Bodhisattva. This all fits in perfectly with the moral values that have been attributed to Jesus, as well as his behavior with his "disciples". The moral teachings of Jesus fit perfectly with the moral values taught by the Mahayana Buddhists, and do not match the teachings in the Old Testament at all.

3. The New Testament is just rumors about the life of Jesus that try to make him out to be something that he wasn't. Obviously in an attempt to use the rumors about him to support the very religion that Jesus himself apparently disagreed with, IMHO.

So there you go. I don't need to "prove" any of these claims. They are clearly possible, and that's all they need to be. They are reasonable. Far more reasonable than the idea of a supposedly infinitely wise God who is associated with blood sacrifices, IMHO.

~~~~

So there, as you can see, I haven't tried to 'prove' anything. All I did was offer reasons why I don't believe it, and I offered a very reasonable explanation of how it all came to be in the first place.

From my point of view there are simply far better pictures of God and spirituality to be had. So I see no reason to believe in a picture of a God who condones things such as blood sacrifices and male-superiority, etc.

I just have no use for those kinds of things. They appear to me to be the types of things that would be associated with an extremely unwise and unintelligent being. Therefore I see absolutely no reason to believe that these stories have anything to do with any all-wise God.

You can address my concerns if you like, but I seriously doubt that you are going to convince me that an all-wise being would be associated with the rude and crude things that are associated with the Bible.

To be perfectly honest with you, it makes me quite sad to see people constantly proselyting those rude and crude ideas, especially when they use them to support religious bigotry against all other religions, and to support hostile feelings toward the lifestyles of others simply because their biblical god supposedly doesn't like certain things, and to support ignorance over scientific knowledge.

So, yes, I see the religion as being disruptive to peace, and the intellectual advancement of mankind. And I confess that I don't appreciate that in the least. From my point of view it's a cancer on humanity.

To be perfectly honest with you, it makes me quite sad to see people constantly proselyting those rude and crude ideas, especially when they use them to support religious bigotry against all other religions, and to support hostile feelings toward the lifestyles of others simply because their biblical god supposedly doesn't like certain things, and to support ignorance over scientific knowledge.

No, actually it's more about accepting that there are some things science and those who practice science do not attempt to know or to prove.

Science and those who practice it, understand the limitations of that field of knowledge.

It would be more logical to say that the souces of knowledge are based on subjective interpretation.

Of course being logical is more difficult when a person's religious doctrine contains elements of exclusivity pertaining to the one and ony true source of knowledge.

Kinda puts the damper on recognizing any other source for the attainment of knowledge, doesn't it?

what does it matter if another human goes to heaven?

what does it matter if another human goes to hell?

if it matters so much, then those with unconditional love, the christains can go to hell in my place, since they claim unconditional love, which is willing to take the pain for another, and i shall work on creating heaven here on earth, which is but a caring place where all are treated as equal...

but didn't it say heaven would be created on EARTH?

hum...

i smell a rat, a shrew, a deceit, propoagted by mortal tongues, hewn forth from self serving wants to get to heaven again!

damn cowboy, in the other thread, you said you were against living for a reward for self!

and now your over here tryin to get other people to live for a self reward of heaven for themself?

damn...

thats a total opposite.

if self says living for no reward for self, is the good way of god, than how can it tell other's to hope to get there, or want a reward for themself, and now pose such as good motive or belief?

hum...

what does it matter if another human goes to heaven?

what does it matter if another human goes to hell?

and now your over here tryin to get other people to live for a self reward of heaven for themself?

what does it matter if another human goes to heaven?

what does it matter if another human goes to hell?

if it matters so much, then those with unconditional love, the christains can go to hell in my place, since they claim unconditional love, which is willing to take the pain for another, and i shall work on creating heaven here on earth, which is but a caring place where all are treated as equal...

but didn't it say heaven would be created on EARTH?

hum...

i smell a rat, a shrew, a deceit, propoagted by mortal tongues, hewn forth from self serving wants to get to heaven again!

damn cowboy, in the other thread, you said you were against living for a reward for self!

and now your over here tryin to get other people to live for a self reward of heaven for themself?

damn...

thats a total opposite.

if self says living for no reward for self, is the good way of god, than how can it tell other's to hope to get there, or want a reward for themself, and now pose such as good motive or belief?

hum...

Well then how do think all those human infestations called spirits are being made?

God came from the bible! Without the bible we would know NOTHING of God! Unless you count hearsay from other people.

I guess that depends upon interpretation and context,,,imagine, 2000 years from now what will be said about our civilization and how all that CURRENTLY is happening will be condensed into several books all originating with the FIRST of its kind,,,,


I see the bible as a condensed history from several sources, instead of just one source,,,, much like the United Kingdom is actually several countries which were united into one

which leaves the information, like the country, formally one source, but in actuality a collection of sources