of course they do, a creator who designed them to have a place in the universe


without that intelligent design giving US our place, our place would be the same accident that animals and plants are and our purpose most likely similarly to merely survive

Other than arrogance, what separates us from the animals?

I see a lot of questions but I didn't see your answer.

Other than arrogance, what separates us from the animals?

The only honest answer is agnosticism.

Anything less is dishonest.

The thread was discussing meaning anyway.

Why would your life be more meaningful to you if some external entity created it and be less meaningful to you if that were not the case?

Is it more meaningful to you to be the slave of another separate consciousness than to be a free consciousness in your own right?

I would personally feel just the opposite. Life would be far more meaningful to me if I were a free spirit than to merely be the expected obedient servant of another independent conscious being. The latter would certainly be a lesser existence than the former.

The latter would be oppressive fascism that threatens to be an eternal state of affairs.

Certainly not something that I would embrace with open arms.

Clearly being the "God Consciousness" would be the better picture.

So being a slave to that consciousness would be less meaningful than being the free consciousness in the first place.

Do we really need a cosmic fascist dictator to give meaning to our lives?

Electric shavers.

the ability to build cities, countries, ability to communicate through writing, ability to create artistic and musical masterpieces,,,

In other words we enjoy "Sins of the flesh" and indulgence in physical pleasures where animals do not become addicted and dependent upon these things.

Most spiritual writings suggest that we should abstain from these physical lusts anyway.

Didn't Jesus himself supposedly give up all his physical possessions to roam the countryside as a bum? And didn't he ask all of his disciples to do the same thing.

Where did Jesus create any works of art or music. Or even write anything down for that matter?

He spoke about the birds that toil not yet God gives them what they need and basically suggested that we should be viewing life in the same away as the birds. He also taught to take no thought of the morrow.

Well no one is going to be planning to build a city if they are not taking any thought of the morrow.

Countries would not exist either if everyone followed the teachings of Jesus because there would be no need for them. Just treat your neighbor as thyself. No need to ask them to pass through any customs agencies before they can step onto your property.

According to the teachings of Jesus it appears that we might be far better off if we actually lived like the animals.

Electric shavers.

I was answering the question 'Other than arrogance, what separates us from the animals? '

In other words we enjoy "Sins of the flesh" and indulgence in physical pleasures where animals do not become addicted and dependent upon these things.

Most spiritual writings suggest that we should abstain from these physical lusts anyway.

Didn't Jesus himself supposedly give up all his physical possessions to roam the countryside as a bum? And didn't he ask all of his disciples to do the same thing.

Where did Jesus create any works of art or music. Or even write anything down for that matter?

He spoke about the birds that toil not yet God gives them what they need and basically suggested that we should be viewing life in the same away as the birds. He also taught to take no thought of the morrow.

Well no one is going to be planning to build a city if they are not taking any thought of the morrow.

Countries would not exist either if everyone followed the teachings of Jesus because there would be no need for them. Just treat your neighbor as thyself. No need to ask them to pass through any customs agencies before they can step onto your property.

According to the teachings of Jesus it appears that we might be far better off if we actually lived like the animals.

Actually Jesus was quite the scholar according to those who watched him study and debate. There was nothing that compares him to a bum what-so-ever. But than you enjoy taking low blows to get a rise.

So in other words you are saying that when intelligence evolves to a certain point that implies the existence of a God. But lower levels of intelligence could potentially have evolved without a God?

Or are you saying that it is intelligence that gives life meaning, and you simply can't imagine intelligence coming into existence without an intentional designer in the first place.

If that's the case, then how do explain the intelligence of God.

From whence did it arise?

So in other words you are saying that when intelligence evolves to a certain point that implies the existence of a God. But lower levels of intelligence could potentially have evolved without a God?

Or are you saying that it is intelligence that gives life meaning, and you simply can't imagine intelligence coming into existence without an intentional designer in the first place.

If that's the case, then how do explain the intelligence of God.

From whence did it arise?

Well, in the Buddhist traditions being a "bum" would not be considered a "low blow".

It's the Buddhist tradition that Buddhist monks should "beg" their food and not work. The begging bowel and a Buddhist monk go hand-in-hand. As does the continued pursuit of scholarly wisdom.

So it's only a 'low blow' if you chose to judge it as such.

Once again (are you listening?) we believe that God is the creator not the created.

I only base it on the definition of bum. I forgot though, you make up your own meanings.

IF we didnt have a creator. I Think we would be equal to all animals and plants with no purpose BUT survival.


IF we do have a creator, but choose to erase his significance from our life,,,than we become our own God and our purpose is self fulfillment/achievement,,,