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| Topic: Is it right or sinful to be wedded in court | |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 08/11/11 09:14 AM
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The birth certificate is a document that the STATE uses to borrow money. The people are used as collateral. That is why they insist that you have a birth certificate. Without a birth certificate you can't do anything in the corporate society. Just try it.
Once I went to a doctor to get a test for strep throat. I was paying in cash not credit. The woman at the desk wanted my social security number, which I have a policy of not giving out to anyone. I asked her why she needed that. I told her I was not applying for a job. She said because the form I filled out for their records had a space asking for it. LOL I told her if she needed numbers to put in that space to just make some up because I was not giving her my ss number. Just try to live in this country without your papers. |
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To me is not right at all bcos it is surpose to be blessed by God not man Well said. In here lies the answer to all the problems with gay marriage The government should not have anything to do with marriage at all. Not one bit. They should not have legal ceremonies nor should ones marital status have an concern over taxes or tax rates Marriage is a religious ceremony and should be seperated from our government totally. If your church wants to marry a man and woman or two men or a cat and a dog that should be your right to have faith however you want it but the government should have no say in the matter at all No gay marriage, no straight marriage... no civil unions or anything else. Just cut it totally out of the governments control then all the religious fanatics can go back to calling each other false or backwards and claiming to know the one true way while the government governs without favoring any one of them Can you list the legal benefits of civil marriage and explain why you thing the government should have NO intrest in providing such benefits? One MAJOR issue I have with the whole thing, is the state gets say and license over any kids if they become involved in the marriage through this contract. That's one thing I really do not want, cause they have no business dictating ANYTHING to a child of mine. can you explain how the state gets 'say and licence' over kids of marriage? In short.......this is why: "When you marry with a marriage license, you grant the State jurisdiction over your marriage. When you marry with a marriage license, your marriage is a creature of the State. It is a corporation of the State! Therefore, they have jurisdiction over your marriage including the fruit of your marriage. What is the fruit of your marriage? Your children and every piece of property you own. There is plenty of case law in American jurisprudence which declares this to be true. In 1993, parents were upset here in Wisconsin because a test was being administered to their children in the government schools which was very invasive of the family’s privacy. When parents complained, they were shocked by the school bureaucrats who informed them that their children were required to take the test by law and that they would have to take the test because they (the government school) had jurisdiction over their children. When parents asked the bureaucrats what gave them jurisdiction, the bureaucrats answered, "your marriage license and their birth certificates." Judicially, and in increasing fashion, practically, your state marriage license has far-reaching implications." Quoting from here for reference: http://www.mercyseat.net/BROCHURES/marriagelicense.htm There you go, right there in plain English. think about that Kleisto... 'your marriage license AND their birth certificates',,,, was this TEST only for children of married people? I doubt it. Whatever 'jurisdiction' the laws have over children has nothing to do with whether people are married. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Thu 08/11/11 11:40 AM
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To me is not right at all bcos it is surpose to be blessed by God not man Well said. In here lies the answer to all the problems with gay marriage The government should not have anything to do with marriage at all. Not one bit. They should not have legal ceremonies nor should ones marital status have an concern over taxes or tax rates Marriage is a religious ceremony and should be seperated from our government totally. If your church wants to marry a man and woman or two men or a cat and a dog that should be your right to have faith however you want it but the government should have no say in the matter at all No gay marriage, no straight marriage... no civil unions or anything else. Just cut it totally out of the governments control then all the religious fanatics can go back to calling each other false or backwards and claiming to know the one true way while the government governs without favoring any one of them Can you list the legal benefits of civil marriage and explain why you thing the government should have NO intrest in providing such benefits? One MAJOR issue I have with the whole thing, is the state gets say and license over any kids if they become involved in the marriage through this contract. That's one thing I really do not want, cause they have no business dictating ANYTHING to a child of mine. can you explain how the state gets 'say and licence' over kids of marriage? In short.......this is why: "When you marry with a marriage license, you grant the State jurisdiction over your marriage. When you marry with a marriage license, your marriage is a creature of the State. It is a corporation of the State! Therefore, they have jurisdiction over your marriage including the fruit of your marriage. What is the fruit of your marriage? Your children and every piece of property you own. There is plenty of case law in American jurisprudence which declares this to be true. In 1993, parents were upset here in Wisconsin because a test was being administered to their children in the government schools which was very invasive of the family’s privacy. When parents complained, they were shocked by the school bureaucrats who informed them that their children were required to take the test by law and that they would have to take the test because they (the government school) had jurisdiction over their children. When parents asked the bureaucrats what gave them jurisdiction, the bureaucrats answered, "your marriage license and their birth certificates." Judicially, and in increasing fashion, practically, your state marriage license has far-reaching implications." Quoting from here for reference: http://www.mercyseat.net/BROCHURES/marriagelicense.htm There you go, right there in plain English. think about that Kleisto... 'your marriage license AND their birth certificates',,,, was this TEST only for children of married people? I doubt it. Whatever 'jurisdiction' the laws have over children has nothing to do with whether people are married. The point is, the license was the first step that gave them this power. It's a contract not just between you two, but the state as well. Maybe you are comfortable with them wielding it over your kids, but I am not. The state has too much say over us as it is to start with. |
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To me is not right at all bcos it is surpose to be blessed by God not man Well said. In here lies the answer to all the problems with gay marriage The government should not have anything to do with marriage at all. Not one bit. They should not have legal ceremonies nor should ones marital status have an concern over taxes or tax rates Marriage is a religious ceremony and should be seperated from our government totally. If your church wants to marry a man and woman or two men or a cat and a dog that should be your right to have faith however you want it but the government should have no say in the matter at all No gay marriage, no straight marriage... no civil unions or anything else. Just cut it totally out of the governments control then all the religious fanatics can go back to calling each other false or backwards and claiming to know the one true way while the government governs without favoring any one of them Can you list the legal benefits of civil marriage and explain why you thing the government should have NO intrest in providing such benefits? One MAJOR issue I have with the whole thing, is the state gets say and license over any kids if they become involved in the marriage through this contract. That's one thing I really do not want, cause they have no business dictating ANYTHING to a child of mine. can you explain how the state gets 'say and licence' over kids of marriage? In short.......this is why: "When you marry with a marriage license, you grant the State jurisdiction over your marriage. When you marry with a marriage license, your marriage is a creature of the State. It is a corporation of the State! Therefore, they have jurisdiction over your marriage including the fruit of your marriage. What is the fruit of your marriage? Your children and every piece of property you own. There is plenty of case law in American jurisprudence which declares this to be true. In 1993, parents were upset here in Wisconsin because a test was being administered to their children in the government schools which was very invasive of the family’s privacy. When parents complained, they were shocked by the school bureaucrats who informed them that their children were required to take the test by law and that they would have to take the test because they (the government school) had jurisdiction over their children. When parents asked the bureaucrats what gave them jurisdiction, the bureaucrats answered, "your marriage license and their birth certificates." Judicially, and in increasing fashion, practically, your state marriage license has far-reaching implications." Quoting from here for reference: http://www.mercyseat.net/BROCHURES/marriagelicense.htm There you go, right there in plain English. think about that Kleisto... 'your marriage license AND their birth certificates',,,, was this TEST only for children of married people? I doubt it. Whatever 'jurisdiction' the laws have over children has nothing to do with whether people are married. The point is, the license was the first step that gave them this power. It's a contract not just between you two, but the state as well. Maybe you are comfortable with them wielding it over your kids, but I am not. The state has too much say over us as it is to start with. Im trying to say the marriage license has nothing to do with states control of children. Children are CITIZENS and MINORS which are treated accordingly by the law. the marital status of parents doesnt determine that. |
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To me is not right at all bcos it is surpose to be blessed by God not man Well said. In here lies the answer to all the problems with gay marriage The government should not have anything to do with marriage at all. Not one bit. They should not have legal ceremonies nor should ones marital status have an concern over taxes or tax rates Marriage is a religious ceremony and should be seperated from our government totally. If your church wants to marry a man and woman or two men or a cat and a dog that should be your right to have faith however you want it but the government should have no say in the matter at all No gay marriage, no straight marriage... no civil unions or anything else. Just cut it totally out of the governments control then all the religious fanatics can go back to calling each other false or backwards and claiming to know the one true way while the government governs without favoring any one of them Can you list the legal benefits of civil marriage and explain why you thing the government should have NO intrest in providing such benefits? One MAJOR issue I have with the whole thing, is the state gets say and license over any kids if they become involved in the marriage through this contract. That's one thing I really do not want, cause they have no business dictating ANYTHING to a child of mine. can you explain how the state gets 'say and licence' over kids of marriage? In short.......this is why: "When you marry with a marriage license, you grant the State jurisdiction over your marriage. When you marry with a marriage license, your marriage is a creature of the State. It is a corporation of the State! Therefore, they have jurisdiction over your marriage including the fruit of your marriage. What is the fruit of your marriage? Your children and every piece of property you own. There is plenty of case law in American jurisprudence which declares this to be true. In 1993, parents were upset here in Wisconsin because a test was being administered to their children in the government schools which was very invasive of the family’s privacy. When parents complained, they were shocked by the school bureaucrats who informed them that their children were required to take the test by law and that they would have to take the test because they (the government school) had jurisdiction over their children. When parents asked the bureaucrats what gave them jurisdiction, the bureaucrats answered, "your marriage license and their birth certificates." Judicially, and in increasing fashion, practically, your state marriage license has far-reaching implications." Quoting from here for reference: http://www.mercyseat.net/BROCHURES/marriagelicense.htm There you go, right there in plain English. think about that Kleisto... 'your marriage license AND their birth certificates',,,, was this TEST only for children of married people? I doubt it. Whatever 'jurisdiction' the laws have over children has nothing to do with whether people are married. The point is, the license was the first step that gave them this power. It's a contract not just between you two, but the state as well. Maybe you are comfortable with them wielding it over your kids, but I am not. The state has too much say over us as it is to start with. Im trying to say the marriage license has nothing to do with states control of children. Children are CITIZENS and MINORS which are treated accordingly by the law. the marital status of parents doesnt determine that. I don't know that I buy it. If the license was irrelevant why would they even mention it at at all when they were asked? Irregardless though, they STILL should have no such say over the kids like that. It should be up to the parents and no one else but. |
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IM still not following what your objection is...
as jeannie asked what type of 'test' was it? do you object to states determining what tests will be given in schools without running each one past parents first? |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Thu 08/11/11 01:08 PM
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IM still not following what your objection is... as jeannie asked what type of 'test' was it? do you object to states determining what tests will be given in schools without running each one past parents first? Quite frankly, yeah. I don't care for the public education system as a whole really, the schools have become the parents and educators more than the parents are to where the parents hardly have a say in anything, such as this case. That to me is just plain wrong, the parents should be raising the kid and making the decisions, not the state. That's to say nothing of what they tend to teach that passes as "education" on top of that. |
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IM still not following what your objection is... as jeannie asked what type of 'test' was it? do you object to states determining what tests will be given in schools without running each one past parents first? Quite frankly, yeah. I don't care for the public education system as a whole really, the schools have become the parents and educators more than the parents are to where the parents hardly have a say in anything, such as this case. That to me is just plain wrong, the parents should be raising the kid and making the decisions, not the state. That's to say nothing of what they tend to teach that passes as "education" on top of that. I do place that as much on society at large, including parents , as I do the educational system. I have no problem as a parent who was married with the schools administering tests or deciding upon those tests. They usually have had plenty more 'formal' training to help them make decent choices , whereas most parents are going on 'instinct'..... |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Thu 08/11/11 10:50 PM
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IM still not following what your objection is... as jeannie asked what type of 'test' was it? do you object to states determining what tests will be given in schools without running each one past parents first? Quite frankly, yeah. I don't care for the public education system as a whole really, the schools have become the parents and educators more than the parents are to where the parents hardly have a say in anything, such as this case. That to me is just plain wrong, the parents should be raising the kid and making the decisions, not the state. That's to say nothing of what they tend to teach that passes as "education" on top of that. I do place that as much on society at large, including parents , as I do the educational system. I have no problem as a parent who was married with the schools administering tests or deciding upon those tests. They usually have had plenty more 'formal' training to help them make decent choices , whereas most parents are going on 'instinct'..... Maybe you do, but I don't. The government has NO right to dictate to our kids what is best for them over the will of the parent. To give them that right is to in effect forfeit your own to raise your child how you want to raise them. I mean where exactly does it end? One day it may be education, the next it's what foods we can give them. I'm sorry but this is one thing I will not sacrifice. At the end of the day they are OUR kids, not the states, bottom line. |
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IM still not following what your objection is... as jeannie asked what type of 'test' was it? do you object to states determining what tests will be given in schools without running each one past parents first? Quite frankly, yeah. I don't care for the public education system as a whole really, the schools have become the parents and educators more than the parents are to where the parents hardly have a say in anything, such as this case. That to me is just plain wrong, the parents should be raising the kid and making the decisions, not the state. That's to say nothing of what they tend to teach that passes as "education" on top of that. I do place that as much on society at large, including parents , as I do the educational system. I have no problem as a parent who was married with the schools administering tests or deciding upon those tests. They usually have had plenty more 'formal' training to help them make decent choices , whereas most parents are going on 'instinct'..... Maybe you do, but I don't. The government has NO right to dictate to our kids what is best for them over the will of the parent. To give them that right is to in effect forfeit your own to raise your child how you want to raise them. I mean where exactly does it end? One day it may be education, the next it's what foods we can give them. I'm sorry but this is one thing I will not sacrifice. At the end of the day they are OUR kids, not the states, bottom line. well, there is the legal option to homeschool for parents who dont trust or want the 'professional' educators to be able to educate in the ways they have learned to be effective and helpful to prepare the child there is no perfect system health or education or security,, but thats why we review and improve where we can the government has never 'raised' my children, so I dont have that particular objection or concern,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Fri 08/12/11 12:01 AM
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IM still not following what your objection is... as jeannie asked what type of 'test' was it? do you object to states determining what tests will be given in schools without running each one past parents first? Quite frankly, yeah. I don't care for the public education system as a whole really, the schools have become the parents and educators more than the parents are to where the parents hardly have a say in anything, such as this case. That to me is just plain wrong, the parents should be raising the kid and making the decisions, not the state. That's to say nothing of what they tend to teach that passes as "education" on top of that. I do place that as much on society at large, including parents , as I do the educational system. I have no problem as a parent who was married with the schools administering tests or deciding upon those tests. They usually have had plenty more 'formal' training to help them make decent choices , whereas most parents are going on 'instinct'..... Maybe you do, but I don't. The government has NO right to dictate to our kids what is best for them over the will of the parent. To give them that right is to in effect forfeit your own to raise your child how you want to raise them. I mean where exactly does it end? One day it may be education, the next it's what foods we can give them. I'm sorry but this is one thing I will not sacrifice. At the end of the day they are OUR kids, not the states, bottom line. well, there is the legal option to homeschool for parents who dont trust or want the 'professional' educators to be able to educate in the ways they have learned to be effective and helpful to prepare the child there is no perfect system health or education or security,, but thats why we review and improve where we can the government has never 'raised' my children, so I dont have that particular objection or concern,,, Yeah and they'd like to phase that out too.......people who think for themselves don't make good slaves. They really don't intend to improve anything, it wouldn't serve their agendas. And as for the government raising your kids, I would disagree. It's very subtle but whether you realize it or not, they have had a hand in raising many, telling them what the truth is and what it isn't. Of course people think they are thinking their own thoughts and using their own minds but by and large they really aren't. |
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The birth certificate is a document that the STATE uses to borrow money. The people are used as collateral. That is why they insist that you have a birth certificate. Without a birth certificate you can't do anything in the corporate society. Just try it. Once I went to a doctor to get a test for strep throat. I was paying in cash not credit. The woman at the desk wanted my social security number, which I have a policy of not giving out to anyone. I asked her why she needed that. I told her I was not applying for a job. She said because the form I filled out for their records had a space asking for it. LOL I told her if she needed numbers to put in that space to just make some up because I was not giving her my ss number. Just try to live in this country without your papers. This is truth, at the end of the day, we are very little more than a number to them. What happened when you told her that BTW? |
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IM still not following what your objection is... as jeannie asked what type of 'test' was it? do you object to states determining what tests will be given in schools without running each one past parents first? Quite frankly, yeah. I don't care for the public education system as a whole really, the schools have become the parents and educators more than the parents are to where the parents hardly have a say in anything, such as this case. That to me is just plain wrong, the parents should be raising the kid and making the decisions, not the state. That's to say nothing of what they tend to teach that passes as "education" on top of that. I do place that as much on society at large, including parents , as I do the educational system. I have no problem as a parent who was married with the schools administering tests or deciding upon those tests. They usually have had plenty more 'formal' training to help them make decent choices , whereas most parents are going on 'instinct'..... Maybe you do, but I don't. The government has NO right to dictate to our kids what is best for them over the will of the parent. To give them that right is to in effect forfeit your own to raise your child how you want to raise them. I mean where exactly does it end? One day it may be education, the next it's what foods we can give them. I'm sorry but this is one thing I will not sacrifice. At the end of the day they are OUR kids, not the states, bottom line. well, there is the legal option to homeschool for parents who dont trust or want the 'professional' educators to be able to educate in the ways they have learned to be effective and helpful to prepare the child there is no perfect system health or education or security,, but thats why we review and improve where we can the government has never 'raised' my children, so I dont have that particular objection or concern,,, Yeah and they'd like to phase that out too.......people who think for themselves don't make good slaves. They really don't intend to improve anything, it wouldn't serve their agendas. And as for the government raising your kids, I would disagree. It's very subtle but whether you realize it or not, they have had a hand in raising many, telling them what the truth is and what it isn't. Of course people think they are thinking their own thoughts and using their own minds but by and large they really aren't. here is the rub, the government is a part of our society, and society AT LARGE(from the public we encounter when we leave our homes, to the media we see on the television and internet, to the billboards on the side of the road) ALL Will shape what we 'think' there is no way to truly think 'for ourself' with no outside influences in the modern world, but thats a far stretch (IMHO) from the government 'raising' my kids society and environment SHAPE us all, whether its our education, our laws, our peers, our relatives,,,etc,,, thats just life |
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IM still not following what your objection is... as jeannie asked what type of 'test' was it? do you object to states determining what tests will be given in schools without running each one past parents first? Quite frankly, yeah. I don't care for the public education system as a whole really, the schools have become the parents and educators more than the parents are to where the parents hardly have a say in anything, such as this case. That to me is just plain wrong, the parents should be raising the kid and making the decisions, not the state. That's to say nothing of what they tend to teach that passes as "education" on top of that. I do place that as much on society at large, including parents , as I do the educational system. I have no problem as a parent who was married with the schools administering tests or deciding upon those tests. They usually have had plenty more 'formal' training to help them make decent choices , whereas most parents are going on 'instinct'..... Maybe you do, but I don't. The government has NO right to dictate to our kids what is best for them over the will of the parent. To give them that right is to in effect forfeit your own to raise your child how you want to raise them. I mean where exactly does it end? One day it may be education, the next it's what foods we can give them. I'm sorry but this is one thing I will not sacrifice. At the end of the day they are OUR kids, not the states, bottom line. well, there is the legal option to homeschool for parents who dont trust or want the 'professional' educators to be able to educate in the ways they have learned to be effective and helpful to prepare the child there is no perfect system health or education or security,, but thats why we review and improve where we can the government has never 'raised' my children, so I dont have that particular objection or concern,,, Yeah and they'd like to phase that out too.......people who think for themselves don't make good slaves. They really don't intend to improve anything, it wouldn't serve their agendas. And as for the government raising your kids, I would disagree. It's very subtle but whether you realize it or not, they have had a hand in raising many, telling them what the truth is and what it isn't. Of course people think they are thinking their own thoughts and using their own minds but by and large they really aren't. here is the rub, the government is a part of our society, and society AT LARGE(from the public we encounter when we leave our homes, to the media we see on the television and internet, to the billboards on the side of the road) ALL Will shape what we 'think' there is no way to truly think 'for ourself' with no outside influences in the modern world, but thats a far stretch (IMHO) from the government 'raising' my kids society and environment SHAPE us all, whether its our education, our laws, our peers, our relatives,,,etc,,, thats just life Yes but if we EDUCATE ourselves, we can much better know what is BS and what isn't. The problem is a lot of us aren't. There are a lot of outside influences yes, but the key to how much they effect or don't effect us, is how aware we are of what is being done or attempted through them. |
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we only KNOW what we experience for ourself, the rest our heart leads us to take or not take on faith,,,,
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Fri 08/12/11 01:58 PM
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we only KNOW what we experience for ourself, the rest our heart leads us to take or not take on faith,,,, But regardless of what we KNOW, or THINK we know, the facts do not change. You could say for all the world that the government cares about us, but it does not make so neccessarily you know what I mean? This is what I mean about educating ourselves and being aware. If we don't do it, we will be liable to believe just about anything, no matter how inane. |
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we only KNOW what we experience for ourself, the rest our heart leads us to take or not take on faith,,,, But regardless of what we KNOW, or THINK we know, the facts do not change. You could say for all the world that the government cares about us, but it does not make so neccessarily you know what I mean? This is what I mean about educating ourselves and being aware. If we don't do it, we will be liable to believe just about anything, no matter how inane. The government is an ENTITY, it doesnt care. The people who make up the government , however, are human and have every capacity to care that anyone else does. And I believe some do and some dont. I dont paint them all with one big brush. I also dont paint our educational providers, health providers, or even our military with one big brush. I want my children to be exposed to whatever will benefit them in life. If its learning something that will help them move forward by the people who are setting the requirements for moving forward so be it. That doesnt stop me from ALSO teaching them the lessons I want them to learn at home. I just have to hope that (like with anything else) some of those less positive 'moral' lessons being taught to get people ahead will not contradict the values I wish to instill in my children. Even though school is not there to teach morals, they indirectly set moral examples because they are adults and children learn by what they witness and hear. That is something else that cant be helped. So I do the best I can to try to make sure the values I wish for my children are strong enough to stand other influences. |
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Today, all a child needs to know is how to read and write and get on the Internet. They can learn just about anything there.
The future jobs will be on the Internet, the future schools will be on the Internet. You can get a high school diploma on the Internet, and a College degree on the Internet. The day of controlled education and controlled information are over because of the Internet. 
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Fri 08/12/11 05:55 PM
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Today, all a child needs to know is how to read and write and get on the Internet. They can learn just about anything there. The future jobs will be on the Internet, the future schools will be on the Internet. You can get a high school diploma on the Internet, and a College degree on the Internet. The day of controlled education and controlled information are over because of the Internet. The internet doesnt teach the use of logic. The internet doesnt teach how to cope with stress or adapt to different, changing environments and situations. The internet is nothing but an ADDITIONAL resource for children. It could never be a substitute for everything else except reading and writing. The internet has nowhere near the protections and guidance for children that 'controlled' education does. The internet is not a solution at all. THe internet is full of information that can be 'learned',,,sure. But there are few internet checks and balances about the accuracy or even the veracity of what information is 'online'. Not to mention that children will still need to learn the SOCIAL and PROFESSIONAL skills that a 'controlled' environment involves. I do not look forward to the impersonal day when people all rely on TECHNOLOGY to produce and socialize. However bad it is now, that would be MUCH WORSE,, in my opinion. WE should always be striving to work with each other, in the flesh, face to face , eye to eye, and soul to soul. |
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But regardless of what we KNOW, or THINK we know, the facts do not change. so, with respect to god's existence, what are the facts? atheists give me one answer, the faithful a different answer. of course both often rely on writings that are not proven to be factual. the god fearing will cite the koran or bible or some other scripture to explain how the universe was created and an atheist might cite hawking's description of the big bang in his book "the universe in a nutshell" as a basis of fact. of course even hawking does not accept the big bang as having been proved and yet i've heard atheists call it a fact. so in your mind, what are the facts about how the universe was created??? |
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