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Topic: Troubling data for middle class
msharmony's photo
Fri 10/14/11 12:49 AM
#1 In 2009, total wages, median wages, and average wages all declined in the United States.

#2 Since the year 2000, we have lost 10% of our middle class jobs. In the year 2000 there were about 72 million middle class jobs in the United States but today there are only about 65 million middle class jobs. Meanwhile, our population is getting larger.

#3 As 2007 began, only 26 million Americans were on food stamps, but now 42 million Americans are on food stamps and that number keeps rising every single month.

#4 Since 2001, over 42,000 U.S. factories have closed down for good.

#5 One out of every six Americans is now enrolled in at least one anti-poverty program run by the federal government.

#6 Half of all American workers now earn $505 or less per week.

#7 The number of Americans working part-time jobs "for economic reasons" is now the highest it has been in at least five decades.

#8 Ten years ago, the United States was ranked number one in average wealth per adult. In 2010, the United States has fallen to seventh.

#9 In 1976, the top 1 percent of earners in the United States took in 8.9 percent of all income. By 2007, that number had risen to 23.5 percent.

#10 According to one recent study, approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010

from http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-working-poor



we need to get serious about promoting better quality education and educational opportunities, and creating and keeping quality jobs in america,,,,,, if we dont start looking at that big picture instead of our immediate , impulsive, wants,,,,,we are gonna wake up at a point of no return someday,,,,,,

Conrad_73's photo
Fri 10/14/11 02:01 AM
Yep,Keynesian Economics sure works!laugh

InvictusV's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:09 AM

Yep,Keynesian Economics sure works!laugh


yeah..but ...in uhm...1936 .. we had.uhm.. debt 120000000000% of gdp and..uhm. we spent.. our way out.uhm.. yeah.. its only 101%.... today..

Uhmmm and ....uh .. its Bush's fault..





InvictusV's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:13 AM
"we need to get serious about promoting better quality education and educational opportunities, and creating and keeping quality jobs in america,,,,,, if we dont start looking at that big picture instead of our immediate , impulsive, wants,,,,,we are gonna wake up at a point of no return someday,,,"


Where have I read that before?



msharmony's photo
Fri 10/14/11 01:14 PM

"we need to get serious about promoting better quality education and educational opportunities, and creating and keeping quality jobs in america,,,,,, if we dont start looking at that big picture instead of our immediate , impulsive, wants,,,,,we are gonna wake up at a point of no return someday,,,"


Where have I read that before?






dont know, its not a hard conclusion to come to and IM sure Im not the first to have come to it

msharmony's photo
Fri 10/14/11 01:14 PM


Yep,Keynesian Economics sure works!laugh


yeah..but ...in uhm...1936 .. we had.uhm.. debt 120000000000% of gdp and..uhm. we spent.. our way out.uhm.. yeah.. its only 101%.... today..

Uhmmm and ....uh .. its Bush's fault..







its no one mans fault nor has it happened in any one term in isolation,, its accumulated and it needs to start swinging back the other direction,,,

Chazster's photo
Fri 10/14/11 01:17 PM
working class people are not middle class.. they are working class. The definition of middle class is the people between the working class and upper class.

So its more like "trouble for the working class"

msharmony's photo
Fri 10/14/11 01:21 PM

working class people are not middle class.. they are working class. The definition of middle class is the people between the working class and upper class.

So its more like "trouble for the working class"



thats YOUR definition of middle class, I have no issue discussing it within your context, but that is not THEE singular definition of middle class



Chazster's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:09 PM
Edited by Chazster on Fri 10/14/11 04:11 PM


working class people are not middle class.. they are working class. The definition of middle class is the people between the working class and upper class.

So its more like "trouble for the working class"



thats YOUR definition of middle class, I have no issue discussing it within your context, but that is not THEE singular definition of middle class




No that is max Weber's definition

Karl Emil Maximilian "Max" Weber (German pronunciation: [ˈmaks ˈveːbɐ]; 21 April 1864 – 14 June 1920) was a German sociologist and political economist who profoundly influenced social theory, social research and the discipline of sociology itself.[1] A key proponent of methodological antipositivism, which presents sociology as a non-empiricist field which must study social action through interpretive means based upon understanding the meaning and purpose that individuals attach to their own actions, Weber is often cited, with Émile Durkheim and Karl Marx, as one of the three principal architects of modern social science

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber

msharmony's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:15 PM



working class people are not middle class.. they are working class. The definition of middle class is the people between the working class and upper class.

So its more like "trouble for the working class"



thats YOUR definition of middle class, I have no issue discussing it within your context, but that is not THEE singular definition of middle class




No that is max Weber's definition

Karl Emil Maximilian "Max" Weber (German pronunciation: [ˈmaks ˈveːbɐ]; 21 April 1864 – 14 June 1920) was a German sociologist and political economist who profoundly influenced social theory, social research and the discipline of sociology itself.[1] A key proponent of methodological antipositivism, which presents sociology as a non-empiricist field which must study social action through interpretive means based upon understanding the meaning and purpose that individuals attach to their own actions, Weber is often cited, with Émile Durkheim and Karl Marx, as one of the three principal architects of modern social science

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber




still, ONE persons interpretation, not the EXCLUSIVE definition,,

Chazster's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:18 PM
Yea just one of the founders of modern Sociology. (btw its not just his definition. lots of people follow this)

Chazster's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:19 PM
feel free to give your definition of middle class and explain its difference from the working class

motowndowntown's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:22 PM
Middle class;

Not rich not poor

In the middle.

People making the median income.

msharmony's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:28 PM
working class is simply those people who work but have no power over anyone elses livelihood

some working class may have middle class status due to their assets and net worth

some working class may have lower class status due to their lack of any assets or net worth,,,

when I refer to working class, I am referencing a lack of power over others


when I refer to the lower , middle, or upper class, I am referring to incomes that are less than, at, or above the average

in our recent history, those who were once in the 'middle' class, with incomes at the average have found their incomes decline , or their jobs dissappear(Which would reduce income) and have found that they have lost their assets trying to make up the difference


the middle class are disappearing into the 'working' or lower class, so the issue is a contiguous one that really doesnt focus on the label,,,

msharmony's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:30 PM

Yea just one of the founders of modern Sociology. (btw its not just his definition. lots of people follow this)



Yes JUST ONE of them,,,many others with different theories than his

Chazster's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:30 PM


Yea just one of the founders of modern Sociology. (btw its not just his definition. lots of people follow this)



Yes JUST ONE of them,,,many others with different theories than his

Feel free to list others with contradictory views.

motowndowntown's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:32 PM
Edited by motowndowntown on Fri 10/14/11 04:38 PM
You are co-mingling social class and economic class.

You could be working class and still have power over someones income.
Think of a master and a apprentice.

Someone could be "working class" and live a upper or middle class life.
Think of a master licensed craftsman working independently.

Chazster's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:32 PM

working class is simply those people who work but have no power over anyone elses livelihood

some working class may have middle class status due to their assets and net worth

some working class may have lower class status due to their lack of any assets or net worth,,,

when I refer to working class, I am referencing a lack of power over others


when I refer to the lower , middle, or upper class, I am referring to incomes that are less than, at, or above the average

in our recent history, those who were once in the 'middle' class, with incomes at the average have found their incomes decline , or their jobs dissappear(Which would reduce income) and have found that they have lost their assets trying to make up the difference


the middle class are disappearing into the 'working' or lower class, so the issue is a contiguous one that really doesnt focus on the label,,,


You want to be more specific? Where are your income cut off points.

Chazster's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:40 PM

You are co-mingling social class and economic class.


even if this is true lots of stuff in the article doesn't necessarily relate to an economical middle class. Its random statistics. Like people making 500 a week. Thats like 25k a year. Now if person has to make average income to be middle class (which is around 45K i think) I wouldnt think they lost about 20k a year in salary. At least not many people. That is just one point.

msharmony's photo
Fri 10/14/11 04:51 PM



Yea just one of the founders of modern Sociology. (btw its not just his definition. lots of people follow this)



Yes JUST ONE of them,,,many others with different theories than his

Feel free to list others with contradictory views.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class


explanation of many different views of 'class' besides Webers

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