Oh I get it, even when you were young, parties and celebrations weren't important to you. You were there to learn, nothing else. Wow you must have been a social hermit.

well, I dont know how it is everywhere, but here in vegas, the kids attend class MAYBE seven hours a day,, that leaves plenty of WAKING hours for them to party it up and celebrate

but to answer the question, yes, I did go to school to learn (my elders sacrificed to much for me to do otherwise), and I kept my celebrating and partying OUTSIDE of school...

although it was always motivating to have a SCHOOL related celebration/recognition,, for winning an event or having high scores,,,etc,,,,


pep rallies, and afterschool extracurricular activities did just fine in fulfilling the need to be social,,,

Every opportunity for interaction between adults and children is an opportunity to exchange knowledge for curiosity and for both parties to learn something new. Teachers have the greatest opportunity for such exchanges because its their job, theri entire focus to have such exchanges with the young poeple in their care.

What's wrong with providing a hands-on active learning environment? What's wrong with limiting the inforamtion to age appropriate levels?

Thanksgiving: Dress-up in historic costume for the younger kids and learning about the native people that inhabited this land before us.
This is important becasue they will have to learn at some point that the treatment those people received was no less of a genocidal action than those of more modern times.

Here we have opportunity to CHANGE the way we view Thanksgiving, we could tell our kids that what we are thankful for is that we have learned to celebrate our growing knowledge that diversity is not only acceptible, it is worth striving for peaceful ways to keep the diversity among us.

Christmas: Here we have an opportunity to teach kid that about the religion that dominated our culture before we learned the importance of accepting diversity. With Christmas we have an opportunity to teach about the basic ideals of Christianity and and Judiaism and about the Pagan religions that served to influence the major Christian holidays.

What's wrong with teach kids through hands-on making of ornaments and garlands and explaining their origins. What's wrong with showing and even lighting the menorah and explaing some rituals. What's wrong with teaching that all of these thing serve serve to create diversity.

Halloween: What's wrong with the facts - sure dress up and explaing the religious beliefs that accompany it.

When we teach about prominant and influential people in history we must make sure that all manner of role models are included. People of both genders, all colors, lesbians, gay, bi-sexual, transgendered and people of all ethnicities, and those who have overcome great physical and mental challenges to rise to historic levels. Every child deserves the opportunity to see someone like themselves, someone respected that respesents some diversity that is their own and does not make them feel different, segregated and out-of-place, everyone deserves a role model.

We are so darn busy trying to work our way through the prejudice and racism that has been so institutionalized in our country that we have ignored the greatest opportunities to teach our children that we have a vision of a better world, a world we can only hope they will grow up to believe in.

The more knowledge about other cultures, other religions, and other world views that we can expose our children to, the more opportunity we give them to shape their own futures that the world those futures will be lived in.

I dont have any problem with the idea and reality that adults should be trying to teach kids(regardless of profession).

BUt I think the PRIMARY purpose of a teacher is to TEACH, and there are too many topics under the sun to EXPECT everything be taught so we expect them to teach those things that will make them competitive and able to provide for themself when they grow up. Knowing the history of christians or thanksgiving doesnt necessarily do that and there are other lessons already intwined in history class that can be used to present the ideas of diversity and fairness and the implications of the opposite.

So, although I would take no ISSUE With parties and such IF the children were first being taught what they NEED to produce and survive in life,, I dont consider it an entitlement that I would fight for if it was decided against.

My main concern is my children are EQUIPPED when they grow up, the extras are up to the school and me, the parent, at home.

Perhaps you are not thinking broadly enough. We are in the midst of creating global communities. The best jobs, right now, are going to more highly educated people who have knowledge of other cultures and the skills to work within the boundaries of each culture. The number of expatriats within the workforce continues to grow significantly every year.

No country continues to live in isolation and diversity of people and cultures is considered an asset.

We have an opportunity to teach more than just math, more than just the 'American' way. We have an opportunity to shape the future of the world and all we need to do is include in our teaching some historical facts and tid-bits about the diversity that exists in the historical archives. Diversity that spans all religions, gender...(like I said before). It's not necesarily a new time slot for teaching something, but utilizing old time slots in new and improved ways. Such improvements will expand the opportunities available to our kids.

Of course, the great white cover up being uncovered causes pause with white folks. As to halloween, no one is being denied their halloween, they just don't need to do it at school.

I just wanted to add a note about IQ tests. After the development of the Intellegence Quotient testing methods, it was thought that African Americans were simply not as intelligent as Whites.

It took a while before it was recognized that no IQ test can be generalized between culture nor can they be generalized in countries in which the inhabitants for sub-cultures which continue for generations.

Intelligence can only be measured using the cultural norms of the individual and so far a generalized IQ test is a rather illusive thing.

I only added this post to show how important it is that we begin to socialize our young poeple with knowledge of as many cultures and world views as possible.

I would say the more than half of all children in this country do not have adults in their lives, other than their teachers, who can bring this information to them.

I agree with you that we need to teach the important stuff that is not and cannot be taught in the home or within the family unit.
Sources of diversity is just such knowledge.

Our Halloween at school was one hour of the day anyway. Not a whole day of celebrating a holiday that was about dressing up and getting candy.

If the parents have an issue with it, they can have a party at their house for all the school kids.

Also, if it hadn't been for the protests here by the native Americans, I would have never known of the terrible act of Columbus and those who followed.

Thanksgiving was suppose to be a coming together of the two cultures at a bad time for the settlers. Being thankful for what you have and for others and what they have done for you.

Thank you!


All this 'typical right thinking' and 'typical left thinking' is BS. I see all of that happening on both sides.



I'm all for ending the celebration of Christopher Columbus day. It seems to me to be part of a mythology; its the kind of thing that makes smart kids lose faith in their government, parents, and teachers. If we want to puff up some historical characters we can be a bit more honest about it.

Thanksgiving on the other hand....history aside, just look at the name. Its the only holiday we have specifically for celebrating gratitude. I think thats important! We can celebrate gratitude, express gratitude, and still be honest with our kids.

Well, principals shouldn't make that decision on arbitrary personal whimsy, but why shouldn't they have the power to make a (hopefully) sensible decision in this regard?

Principals are responsible for running the school. We have to give them authority. If they abuse it, or are foolish about it, it might be time to replace the principal. But I see nothing wrong with giving the person in that seat the personal authority to make that decision. I also see nothing terribly wrong with giving that power to someone else in the district, or a committee, or in the local government.

I agree, parties are not an entitlement. I've worked in schools - the parents of those kids have left them with the most ridiculous entitlement attitudes! And they leave it up to the schools to teach them self control and self discipline.

And now people are arguing against Ms Harmony's "not an entitlement" position?

So you think it should be an entitlement? Mandatory celebrations in the schools? Regardless of whether behavioral issues have disrupted the classroom and set them back? Regardless of whether certain students, or even entire classes, have demonstrated they can't behave well in those circumstances?

"Oh, Sweet Zombie Jesus!" - Farnsworth

The majority of americans will work within the AMERICAN culture,,and knowledge of that culture will be paramount. Knowledge of other cultures, although never harmful, is not as necessary as knowledge of Math, Science, Reading, and writing,, skills that translate in just about every culture that is excelling globally.

After that, our melting pot, might continue to include people from any of the thousands of cultures all over the globe, but I Dont hold schools responsible for teaching about them all or ANY of them, and I trust them even less to teach them accurately without a 'western' slant in the first place.

I still believe that type of lesson and exposure should be up to PARENTS to decide.

when religion is the issue, i think calling them catholic or protestant is not out of line. we don't seem to have a problem refering to the followers of hitler as 'nazis' but they too were just people, no? just people did not commit the atrocities against humanity during the crusades, the inquisition and the salem witch trials. they were people, for sure, but people who made decisions regarding life and death based on their catholic or protestant dogma. many even claimed commiting the dastardly deeds 'in the name of god' and then pathetically excused their actions as 'god's will.' so identifying them as catholic or protestent as opposed to just people is helpful if we are to really get a grasp on history.

Then I don't understand what you want not to be included, as most of history includes members of religion. So, do you just not want the people to say that it was mostly "Jews" exterminated in concentration camps? What do you want to call them?

I'm taking this to mean that you want Pope Urban II (and maybe his cohorts) to be blamed for the Crusades and not the Catholics of Europe in general? If so, then in this translation of history...what did Pope Urban II use (if not widely accepted religious doctrine) to motivate all the European armies to wage war on Muslims? You probably don't approve of my saying they attacked Muslims...but they did not attack all of Jerusalem, as there were Christians in Jerusalem too...so who do you want it to be said they attacked? Should we say followers of Muhammed? In this case do we bother to explain who they believed Muhammed was or why a large group of people followed and fought for him? I just don't understand what you want to happen here.



If we can't learn how not to repeat the same mistakes in history, then we have learned nothing from history at all...I fully agree with you here. I just believe that the most truthful and detailed light given historical events are required to really learn these lessons.

I urge anyone who believes that we are somehow protecting our children by covering up the contribution that religious differences had on historical atrocities in our past, to consider that one of the main reasons the masses allowed these atrocities to occur under their noses and even took up arms to commit them themselves was directly due to very similar restrictions imposed on education at the time.

balance is key

There were the historical atrocities and there are modern atrocities

There were grops that had villains and murderers in their leadership in the PAST (such as Germany, for instance), but who advanced to BETTER circumstances as time progressed

for sure, religions have , in the past, had leaders and followers who justified things that hurt others

so have governments

so have 'races'

, but when we teach these things in a concept of BALANCE about what was learned and can still be learned and the potential that all people (whether part of religion, government, race) can and have done 'better',,,,,we neither condemn groups nor elevate them,, but instead motivate PEOPLE

Very wise advice and very nicely stated!

thank you