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| Topic: Pantheism | |
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Well nobody can prove that there is no God either.  Just as nobody can prove that I don't have an invisible unicorn in my back garden; seriously, come and see for yourself! You can't see it, you can't disprove it. S1ow, I had thought you were above the likes of Ray Comfort and his 'banana' arguments. No one's concept of God is exactly the same. But if there is only one God then it has to be the same God for everyone even if they have different views of this same God. There is no reason why a pantheistic view of God cannot also be personal. There is a reason, and a damn good one at that; that, conversely, there is zero justification in imposing simple human emotions onto an Ultimate Intelligence. Were I this Intelligence I would find it offensive (or more likely, I would be so far above such petty matters that I wouldn't even acknowledge) that a mere animal as Man claims to know my mind. It is like the old story of the blind men each observing a different part of the elephant. The have different experiences and differing viewpoints but that does not mean any of them are wrong and also they are all just describing the same thing in different ways. Now you begin to make sense! We, as petty mortals, know so little that any claim made by us about the almighty is inherently flawed. The only hope we have of coming to such an understanding is through time, discovery and experience. Now you will receive many blue lines of unreasearched blind faith in dogma and ritual.... To explain how wrong every one else is and that all you need is to accept what a certian group has decided is the truth. Aye time, discovery and experience. and YOUR own personal investigation of truth. Now you will receive many blue lines of unreasearched blind faith in dogma and ritual How can you call it unresearched blind faith? We receive this knowledge from something that was written many years ago. It then becomes a theory if it's true or not. We practice what is written in these scriptures and they do not fail to achieve what they say. So with it no failing, it would then become a fact. That's exactly even what scientists do to find "facts". First it's a theory, and if it doesn't fail after multiple "experiments", it becomes a fact. Blind acceptance and no more. Fact is that if the 'practice' of the bible word was an absolute and only path to god... the world would be at peace. As this is not so... There are many sands upon the truth... Yet most practice shifting the sands... and practice not the gems of truth within. |
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Well nobody can prove that there is no God either. Just as nobody can prove that I don't have an invisible unicorn in my back garden; seriously, come and see for yourself! You can't see it, you can't disprove it. S1ow, I had thought you were above the likes of Ray Comfort and his 'banana' arguments. No one's concept of God is exactly the same. But if there is only one God then it has to be the same God for everyone even if they have different views of this same God. There is no reason why a pantheistic view of God cannot also be personal. There is a reason, and a damn good one at that; that, conversely, there is zero justification in imposing simple human emotions onto an Ultimate Intelligence. Were I this Intelligence I would find it offensive (or more likely, I would be so far above such petty matters that I wouldn't even acknowledge) that a mere animal as Man claims to know my mind. It is like the old story of the blind men each observing a different part of the elephant. The have different experiences and differing viewpoints but that does not mean any of them are wrong and also they are all just describing the same thing in different ways. Now you begin to make sense! We, as petty mortals, know so little that any claim made by us about the almighty is inherently flawed. The only hope we have of coming to such an understanding is through time, discovery and experience. Now you will receive many blue lines of unreasearched blind faith in dogma and ritual.... To explain how wrong every one else is and that all you need is to accept what a certian group has decided is the truth. Aye time, discovery and experience. and YOUR own personal investigation of truth. Now you will receive many blue lines of unreasearched blind faith in dogma and ritual How can you call it unresearched blind faith? We receive this knowledge from something that was written many years ago. It then becomes a theory if it's true or not. We practice what is written in these scriptures and they do not fail to achieve what they say. So with it no failing, it would then become a fact. That's exactly even what scientists do to find "facts". First it's a theory, and if it doesn't fail after multiple "experiments", it becomes a fact. Blind acceptance and no more. Fact is that if the 'practice' of the bible word was an absolute and only path to god... the world would be at peace. As this is not so... There are many sands upon the truth... Yet most practice shifting the sands... and practice not the gems of truth within. Blind acceptance? Howso? You are taught as a child that Columbus discovered america. Is not accepting this, accepting it on blind faith? Is not accepting something without seeing it first hand be accepting it on blind faith with your way of thinking? Yes it would be, so why point it out when it comes to Christianity and or religion in general? Why point fingers when you're doing the same exact thing with something else? What makes your blind faith greater then another's? |
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This thread is about PANTHEISM. Not Christianity.
Stay on topic please. |
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This thread is about PANTHEISM. Not Christianity. Stay on topic please. My apologies, the topic slipped my mind in my response. |
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Sat 10/29/11 01:16 PM
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I don't find it off topic. What I find amusing is that although there is a great amount of disagreement about Pantheism - there are those who falsely claim that Pantheism is inconsistent with Christianity when both the Pantheistic God and the Christian God are so alike and share so many common attributes. Being a subscriber to the Pantheistic view of God myself, I find it incredibly amusing that a Pantheist would try to tell a Christian that the Christian view of a God at one with the Universe is somehow less than their own view of a God which is also at one with the Universe.  Of course I also saw someone say that since they believed in a Pantheistic view of God that they interpreted that to mean that they also were God. Which is a little bit silly. Pantheism does NOT mean that you can call yourself God but that God is at one with the Universe. Any individual could have nothing more than an infinitesimal part of Godliness in the Pantheistic view as the individual is no more than an infinitesimal part of the Universe themselves. Pantheism does NOT mean that "You are God" and it is completely consistent with Christ who is of course one with the Universe also. 
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 10/29/11 02:17 PM
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Well s1owhand I'm glad that you are "amused."
Nobody is saying that the Christian view is somehow less than their own. (Although Christians do that all the time.) To a Christian, it is an insult to tell them that the pantheist view is the same or in any way similar to their view. (Its just not true.) They are not the same view of God, no matter how you twist it. Most Christians look at Pantheists the same why they would look at an atheist.... people who reject Jesus Christ. You can twist it any way you want, but you will never convince a Christian of what you claim. You may agree with Christians on a few aspects of God and that there is only one, but that is the ONLY similarity. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 10/29/11 02:19 PM
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Pantheism does NOT mean that "You are God" and it is completely consistent with Christ who is of course one with the Universe also. Why not? If Pantheist means that everything is God then that certainly does include me. I am. I am God.  |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 10/29/11 04:46 PM
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Slowhand...your belief is just uniquely your
own..but is not Pantheism.... The reason being : You ALSO believe in a CREATOR God......whereas Pantheist do NOT... I REPEAT....Panthesists DO NOT believe in a PERSONAL CREATOR GOD of the Universe....AT ALL ! Panthesist ONLY beleive that EVERYTHING CREATED is GOD. They do NOT believe in a Personal God . Christians, however, believe in a PERSONAL CREATOR who CREATED Everything. Panthesists just believe that EVERYTHING that was CREATED IS GOD. In the sense that there is ONLY ONE GOD ,is the ONLY similarity between christianity and pantheism.... but that is where the buck stops...... dead in its tracks!!! Simply becasue , the ONE God to a pantheist is the CREATED. But the ONE God to Christians is the CREATOR!!!!!!!!!! To a christian, GOD THE CREATOR IS THE ONE AND ONLY GOD ,WHO CREATED EVERYTHING..... WHO IS THE CREATOR AND NOT THE CREATED AT ALL.... AND GOD THE CREATOR IS AN ENTIRELY SEPARATE SUPREME BEING APART FROM HIS CREATION. GOD IS NOT A CREATED BEING ... GOD IS THE ONE WHO CREATED EVERYTHING....AND GOD HAS ALWAYS BEEN....EVEN BEFORE ANYTHING WAS EVER CREATED AT ALL. GOD IS THE ALPHA AND OMEGA...THE BEGIN AND THE END.... GOD IS ETERNAL AND FOREVER....GOD HAS NO BEGINNING AND HAS NO END. AGAIN....THE PRESENT HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL END ONE DAY.... BUT NOT GOD. And now...I think it's time for this thread to also stop dead in its tracks .... and move on to something else ....period.    |
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I don't think the thread should stop dead.
People are still discussing pantheism. How would you feel if someone came into a thread about Christianity and said that you should "move on to something else?" |
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My pantheist believe is that nothing was "created" but that it "manifested." It manifested with intelligence and consciousness, from energy. |
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I do believe in sort of a "personal God" too, but I call it "My higher self."
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Sat 10/29/11 04:42 PM
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Slowhand...your belief is just uniquely your own..but is not Pantheism.... The reason being : You ALSO believe in a Creator God......whereas Pantheist do NOT... I REPEAT....Panthesits DO NOT beleive in a CREATOR GOD of the Universe....period. Panthesit ONLY beleive that the CREATED is GOD. They do NOT believe in a Personal God . Christians believe in a CREATOR who CREATED Everything. Panthesits just believe that EVERYTHING that was CREATED IS GOD. In the sense that there is ONLY ONE GOD ,is the ONLY similarity between christinaity and pantheism.... but that is where the buck stops...... dead in its tracks!!! And now...I think it's time this thread to also stop dead in its tracks ....and moves on to something else Morning you just need to read more about Pantheism and you will find that it is the belief that God is one with the Universe, that God is everywhere and unknowable in entirety, that God comprises all knowledge and the force behind how the Universe - how God - came into being, and is only One. God is also the creator in Pantheism and the creator is not separate from God's creations. This is not inconsistent with Christianity. There is a little divinity in everything that God created and there was nothing before God who never came into being but is eternal so this is just fine. There is nothing to prevent this God from being the same as the God of the Abrahamic religions except for misinterpretation and bias. Pantheism itself does not disagree with Christian, Jewish or Islamic concepts of God although some Pantheists have a variety of divergent views as it is a relatively new concept of God as described originally by the philosopher Spinoza. |
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I think Morningsong has a good grasp of Pantheism, but I don't think she should be telling us to "move on to something else."
Inappropriate. |
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Actually MorningSong said that Pantheism believes that everything
that was created is God but actually the correct definition of Pantheism is that the sum of everything is God. The sum of everything includes what MorningSong calls the creator - the creative force behind the Universe. There is no real separation between creator and creation in Pantheism and there need not be a separation in Christianity either. God is present in all creation. So this distinction is artificial. |
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How can you call it unresearched blind faith? We receive this knowledge from something that was written many years ago. It then becomes a theory if it's true or not. We practice what is written in these scriptures and they do not fail to achieve what they say. So with it no failing, it would then become a fact. That's exactly even what scientists do to find "facts". First it's a theory, and if it doesn't fail after multiple "experiments", it becomes a fact. Sorry, but it does not become a theory (in the proper, scientific sense of the word) or a fact. Can you please demonstrate how the ancient hypotheses have stood up to 'multiple experiments'? |
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Edited by
ApertureScience
on
Sat 10/29/11 05:20 PM
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I think Morningsong has a good grasp of Pantheism, but I don't think she should be telling us to "move on to something else." Inappropriate. Agreed! This topic has not defied the forum rules as I understand them (if a moderator can demonstrate that it has, I'll eat my hat). It will end when it ends. |
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Jeannie....when I said move on to something else, I
mean , add something new to the mix ......so far everything appears to be a rehash of the same thing here... Slowhand...there are no scriptures to back your statement.. simply because no where in the bible does it say that the Created and the Creator are the same. Read Genesis chapter one..... |
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Edited by
ApertureScience
on
Sat 10/29/11 05:18 PM
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Morning you just need to read more about Pantheism and you will find that it is the belief that God is one with the Universe, that God is everywhere and unknowable in entirety, that God comprises all knowledge and the force behind how the Universe - how God - came into being, and is only One. Preface: s1ow, my personal 'beliefs' [thoughts] may or may not conform to the wiki definition of pantheism, I don't know. I can only speak for myself and would not impose my thoughts onto another but... I disagree that God is unknowable. May I share an analogy? Imagine yourself inside a sphere. It is covered with a black crust. Every time you make a discovery about how things work (say, how to create fire, or you discover radio waves, how to harness electricity, etc.) you scratch away a piece of this crust and reveal the light beyond. Man, from learning how to make stone tools, to formulating theories of motion, to launching sattelites (and beyond) is constantly scraping away at this crust. The goal is to scrape away all the crust [ignorance] and reveal and understand the true nature of all things. Only then may we say we know the mind of 'God'. |
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MorningSong, please read my previous post; I hope I have added something new to the mix!
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I have never actually studied "pantheism" as a religion nor do I go to any "pantheists" meetings.
What I have heard about it appeals to my instincts and harmonizes with my beliefs. If s1owhand finds his version to be useful to him that's great! I don't think there needs to be an argument about what it is and what it is not. I don't believe there are any rules written in stone that must be followed. I don't go to Pantheist church. I believe that each individual has their personal concept of God and the universe. Pantheism seems to fit mine quite well. I don't think I am going to worry about what someone else attempts to tell me about it. They have a right to use the concept as they see fit. |
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