Topic: The 53%: We are NOT Occupy Wall Street
Ladylid2012's photo
Thu 10/27/11 03:12 PM
I find it fascinating that (some) of those who find these protests and protesters "wrong" are the same who have been cheering on and encouraging other countries to rise up aganist their leaders.
Like WE here have no right or reason to be pissed off...wtf!!!!

Dragoness's photo
Thu 10/27/11 03:25 PM

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Occupy Wall Street protesters might say they represent 99% of the nation, but there's a growing number of Americans who are making it clear they are not part of the dissident crowd.

They call themselves the 53%...as in the 53% of Americans who pay federal income taxes. And they are making their voices heard on Tumblr blogs, Twitter and Facebook pages devoted to stories of personal responsibility and work ethic.

The number originates in the estimate that roughly 47% of Americans don't pay federal income tax, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The 53 percenters stress the fact that they are paying the taxes that support the government assistance the protesters say they want.

Kevin Eder was among the first to galvanize those who wanted to differentiate themselves from the thousands of people rallying across the nation to raise awareness of the growing economic gap between the rich and everyone else.

In early October, Eder created the Twitter hashtag #iamthe53, which has since been posted in hundreds of tweets as the backlash to Occupy Wall Street mounts.

"I would never identify myself with those occupying Wall Street," said Eder, 26, a business analyst in Washington D.C. "The frustration was born out of people claiming to speak for me who don't."

Many of those tweeting share the belief that the protesters need to stop complaining about the government and financial institutions and start looking for work. Ken Gardner, an attorney in Dallas, joined the conversation because he opposes government handouts.

"We don't want to be the 53% who carries the 47% on our shoulders," said Gardner, who thinks more people should pay federal income taxes.

Eder's hashtag helped inspire Erick Erickson, editor-in-chief of the conservative website RedState.com and a CNN contributor, to set up a Tumblr blog called "We are the 53%." It mimics Occupy Wall Street "We are the 99 percent" site.

The 53% site gives a voice to those who reject the contention that most Americans are victims of the system, said Josh Trevino, "quasi-official spokesman" for the blog.

"What the 99% is missing is the element of personal responsibility," said Trevino, who is also vice president at the conservative Texas Public Policy Foundation. "The 53% want to bring that into the conversation."

More than a thousand people have sent in entries to the 53% site, which generally features their photo next to a piece of paper that outlines their views, as well as their struggles and work histories.

"I am responsible for my own destiny," writes one 34-year-old father of three. "I will succeed or fail because of me and me alone."

"I took jobs I didn't want. Why don't you?" says one poster to the protesters. "Suck it up and become part of the 53%."

As Frank Decker read through the posts, he felt he could relate. A public school teacher in Vancouver, Wash., Decker and his wife lived below the poverty line until they decided to go back to school to become educators. He sent in a post because he wanted to share his story.

"We didn't go through all that struggle while raising three kids to support people who don't feel they need to work or people who feel they are entitled to something they haven't earned," said Decker, 44.

At this point, neither Keder nor Trevino plan to shift their 53% efforts from the online world to the physical one. But they are both surprised at how popular the backlash has become.

"It's lasted far longer than we thought and it's become much bigger than we thought," Trevino said. "It's not over yet."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_backlash/?npt=NP1&hpt=hp_t2


Considering that the supposed 53 percent also includes the 1 percent that is not paying their fair share of anything, I guess it makes sense that the 53 percent as they call themselves would not be wanting to change anything.

But since most that scream about the taxes really don't pay any I would have to see the supposed 53 percents tax burden to believe they even pay any. If they get their taxes refunded at tax time then they don't pay any income tax anyway.

And the 53 percent actually misunderstand the OWM and are just assuming (you know making an a$$ out of themselves with their prejudices) that they are non wage earners, lazy welfare people, hippies, etc...

So their credibility is not in firm standing with these issues glaring out from them.


Chazster's photo
Thu 10/27/11 07:22 PM


Yet a lot of people are protesting against the top 1%. Not just because of bailouts. My point is that the majority of 1% people have nothing to do with wall street. I am not in agreement that 1% people are bad. I am sure your brother is or one day will be a 1% earner and I am sure as a doctor he is a great man. I don't think he should be punished just because he is in the top %.


I've never heard a single person say that a person is bad just because they are in the 1%.

I have heard many say that they don't deserve the many mechanisms they have for lessening their tax burden.

There is a huge difference between thinking someone is bad, and thinking that our political and economic structures favor them a bit too much.


And I would argue that the majority of 1% don't fall in this category. I would argue that the majority pay more taxes than the people who make less than them.

no photo
Thu 10/27/11 11:12 PM



Yet a lot of people are protesting against the top 1%. Not just because of bailouts. My point is that the majority of 1% people have nothing to do with wall street. I am not in agreement that 1% people are bad. I am sure your brother is or one day will be a 1% earner and I am sure as a doctor he is a great man. I don't think he should be punished just because he is in the top %.


I've never heard a single person say that a person is bad just because they are in the 1%.

I have heard many say that they don't deserve the many mechanisms they have for lessening their tax burden.

There is a huge difference between thinking someone is bad, and thinking that our political and economic structures favor them a bit too much.


And I would argue that the majority of 1% don't fall in this category. I would argue that the majority pay more taxes than the people who make less than them.


In total dollars, yes, they do pay more taxes, I didn't and don't dispute that. (Tangentially, not everyone agrees that metric is the one that matters.)

I wasn't questioning total tax contribution, I was saying some people are displeased with the mechanisms available to rich people to lessen their taxes (to less then they would pay if they didn't have those mechanisms).


Lpdon's photo
Thu 10/27/11 11:55 PM



Their issue is whatever Van Jones and ACORN tell's them it is that day.


laugh Oh, acorn wishes they were relevant!


This protest is not quite like others we have seen, which is clear when you look at the role that social networking plays. Its driven by successful memes and personal connections. If any individual or group succeeds in in having more influence, its only because they spin their memes better.

When people were protesting Bush's invasion of iraq I got annoying emails from 2 organizations asking me to join in the marches. A small group of people were responsible for organizing a large group of protesters.

This is different.

In the last week I've gotten at least twenty separate personal messages from individuals inviting me to join occupy Oakland - via txt, email, FB messages, and such. None of those people are promoting Occupy as 'part of' any kind of 'group'. They are acting independently, and they represent somewhat diverse demographics. They are conservative and liberals and anarchists, they are christians and atheists, they are 20 year olds and 60 year olds, they are unemployed couch surfers and they are working professionals.

If anyone mentions a group like acorn or moveon, its only with scorn for how transparent they are in their desire to co-opt the occupy movement.






http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/

no photo
Fri 10/28/11 12:07 AM




Their issue is whatever Van Jones and ACORN tell's them it is that day.


laugh Oh, acorn wishes they were relevant!


This protest is not quite like others we have seen, which is clear when you look at the role that social networking plays. Its driven by successful memes and personal connections. If any individual or group succeeds in in having more influence, its only because they spin their memes better.

When people were protesting Bush's invasion of iraq I got annoying emails from 2 organizations asking me to join in the marches. A small group of people were responsible for organizing a large group of protesters.

This is different.

In the last week I've gotten at least twenty separate personal messages from individuals inviting me to join occupy Oakland - via txt, email, FB messages, and such. None of those people are promoting Occupy as 'part of' any kind of 'group'. They are acting independently, and they represent somewhat diverse demographics. They are conservative and liberals and anarchists, they are christians and atheists, they are 20 year olds and 60 year olds, they are unemployed couch surfers and they are working professionals.

If anyone mentions a group like acorn or moveon, its only with scorn for how transparent they are in their desire to co-opt the occupy movement.






http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/


I read that article. By the very numbers given in the article, they clearly are not relevant.

Lpdon's photo
Fri 10/28/11 12:10 AM





Their issue is whatever Van Jones and ACORN tell's them it is that day.


laugh Oh, acorn wishes they were relevant!


This protest is not quite like others we have seen, which is clear when you look at the role that social networking plays. Its driven by successful memes and personal connections. If any individual or group succeeds in in having more influence, its only because they spin their memes better.

When people were protesting Bush's invasion of iraq I got annoying emails from 2 organizations asking me to join in the marches. A small group of people were responsible for organizing a large group of protesters.

This is different.

In the last week I've gotten at least twenty separate personal messages from individuals inviting me to join occupy Oakland - via txt, email, FB messages, and such. None of those people are promoting Occupy as 'part of' any kind of 'group'. They are acting independently, and they represent somewhat diverse demographics. They are conservative and liberals and anarchists, they are christians and atheists, they are 20 year olds and 60 year olds, they are unemployed couch surfers and they are working professionals.

If anyone mentions a group like acorn or moveon, its only with scorn for how transparent they are in their desire to co-opt the occupy movement.






http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/


I read that article. By the very numbers given in the article, they clearly are not relevant.


It's not relevant to you because it points a trail right back to your savior Obama's supporters.

msharmony's photo
Fri 10/28/11 01:10 AM
savior 2: one who brings salvation

seems alot of non supporters who post were the ones who saw OBama as such and are so disheartened that he didnt wave a wand and fix everything that was going wrong,,,

most supporters I know can and did see through such impossible expectations,,,

InvictusV's photo
Fri 10/28/11 05:13 AM
Edited by InvictusV on Fri 10/28/11 05:16 AM


NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Occupy Wall Street protesters might say they represent 99% of the nation, but there's a growing number of Americans who are making it clear they are not part of the dissident crowd.

They call themselves the 53%...as in the 53% of Americans who pay federal income taxes. And they are making their voices heard on Tumblr blogs, Twitter and Facebook pages devoted to stories of personal responsibility and work ethic.

The number originates in the estimate that roughly 47% of Americans don't pay federal income tax, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The 53 percenters stress the fact that they are paying the taxes that support the government assistance the protesters say they want.

Kevin Eder was among the first to galvanize those who wanted to differentiate themselves from the thousands of people rallying across the nation to raise awareness of the growing economic gap between the rich and everyone else.

In early October, Eder created the Twitter hashtag #iamthe53, which has since been posted in hundreds of tweets as the backlash to Occupy Wall Street mounts.

"I would never identify myself with those occupying Wall Street," said Eder, 26, a business analyst in Washington D.C. "The frustration was born out of people claiming to speak for me who don't."

Many of those tweeting share the belief that the protesters need to stop complaining about the government and financial institutions and start looking for work. Ken Gardner, an attorney in Dallas, joined the conversation because he opposes government handouts.

"We don't want to be the 53% who carries the 47% on our shoulders," said Gardner, who thinks more people should pay federal income taxes.

Eder's hashtag helped inspire Erick Erickson, editor-in-chief of the conservative website RedState.com and a CNN contributor, to set up a Tumblr blog called "We are the 53%." It mimics Occupy Wall Street "We are the 99 percent" site.

The 53% site gives a voice to those who reject the contention that most Americans are victims of the system, said Josh Trevino, "quasi-official spokesman" for the blog.

"What the 99% is missing is the element of personal responsibility," said Trevino, who is also vice president at the conservative Texas Public Policy Foundation. "The 53% want to bring that into the conversation."

More than a thousand people have sent in entries to the 53% site, which generally features their photo next to a piece of paper that outlines their views, as well as their struggles and work histories.

"I am responsible for my own destiny," writes one 34-year-old father of three. "I will succeed or fail because of me and me alone."

"I took jobs I didn't want. Why don't you?" says one poster to the protesters. "Suck it up and become part of the 53%."

As Frank Decker read through the posts, he felt he could relate. A public school teacher in Vancouver, Wash., Decker and his wife lived below the poverty line until they decided to go back to school to become educators. He sent in a post because he wanted to share his story.

"We didn't go through all that struggle while raising three kids to support people who don't feel they need to work or people who feel they are entitled to something they haven't earned," said Decker, 44.

At this point, neither Keder nor Trevino plan to shift their 53% efforts from the online world to the physical one. But they are both surprised at how popular the backlash has become.

"It's lasted far longer than we thought and it's become much bigger than we thought," Trevino said. "It's not over yet."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_backlash/?npt=NP1&hpt=hp_t2


Considering that the supposed 53 percent also includes the 1 percent that is not paying their fair share of anything, I guess it makes sense that the 53 percent as they call themselves would not be wanting to change anything.

But since most that scream about the taxes really don't pay any I would have to see the supposed 53 percents tax burden to believe they even pay any. If they get their taxes refunded at tax time then they don't pay any income tax anyway.

And the 53 percent actually misunderstand the OWM and are just assuming (you know making an a$$ out of themselves with their prejudices) that they are non wage earners, lazy welfare people, hippies, etc...

So their credibility is not in firm standing with these issues glaring out from them.




This is hilarious..

The 53% that pay taxes really don't pay taxes?

Is that your claim?

If someone has $10,000 withheld and has overpaid $1,000, that refund means they didn't pay the other $9,000?

HAHA...

no photo
Fri 10/28/11 08:09 AM


It's not relevant to you because it points a trail right back to your savior Obama's supporters.



Really, Lpdon? Is this really indicative of your intelligence? Of your thinking ability?

Is your world so tiny that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "An Obama Supporter" ?

Or is this just some arbitrary, baseless claim you make for some rhetorical purpose that escapes me?

I'm tempted to see if you'd be willing to explore this with me - to examine your thought process here... but are you being honest? Is this an honest misunderstanding?

You can do better than this; and when you stoop to things like this, you make people who share your ideology (including, in some case, me) look really bad.


Conrad_73's photo
Sun 10/30/11 12:21 AM
“Who Parented These People?” - Marybeth Hicks


“Call it an occupational hazard but I can’t look at the Occupy Wall Street protesters without thinking, “Who parented these people?”

As a culture columnist, I’ve commented on the social and political ramifications of the “movement” – now known as “OWS” – whose fairyland agenda can be summarized by one of their placards: “Everything for everybody.”

Thanks to their pipe-dream platform, it’s clear there are people with serious designs on “transformational” change in America who are using the protesters like bedsprings in a brothel.

Yet it’s not my role as a commentator that prompts my parenting question but rather the fact that I’m the mother of four teens and young adults. There are some crucial life lessons that the protesters’ moms clearly have not passed along.

Here, then, are five things the OWS protesters’ mothers should have taught their children but obviously didn’t.

Life isn’t fair. The concept of justice – that everyone should be treated fairly – is a worthy and worthwhile moral imperative on which our nation was founded. But justice and economic equality are not the same. Or, as Mick Jagger said, “You can’t always get what you want.”

No matter how you try to “level the playing field,” some people have better luck, skills, talents or connections that land them in better places. Some seem to have all the advantages in life but squander them, others play the modest hand they’re dealt and make up the difference in hard work and perseverance and some find jobs on Wall Street and eventually buy houses in the Hamptons. Is it fair? Stupid question.

Nothing is “free.” Protesting with signs that seek “free” college degrees and “free” health care make you look like idiots because colleges and hospitals don’t operate on rainbows and sunshine. There is no magic money machine to tap for your meandering educational careers and “slow paths” to adulthood and the 53 percent of taxpaying Americans owe you neither a degree nor an annual physical.

While I’m pointing out this obvious fact, here are a few other things that are not free,overtime for police officers and municipal workers, trash hauling,repairs to fixtures and property, condoms,Band-Aids and the food that inexplicably appears on the tables in your makeshift protest kitchens.Real people with real dollars are underwriting your civic temper tantrum.

Your word is your bond.When you demonstrate to eliminate student loan debt, you are advocating precisely the lack of integrity you decry in others. Loans are made based on solemn promises to repay them. No one forces you to borrow money; you are free to choose educational pursuits that don’t require loans or to seek technical or vocational training that allows you to support yourself and your ongoing educational goals.Also, for the record, being a college student is not a state of victimization.It’s a privilege that billions of young people around the globe would die for.

A protest is not a party.On Saturday in New York, while making a mad dash from my cab to the door of my hotel to avoid you, I saw what isn’t evident in the newsreel footage of your demonstrations: Most of you are doing this only for attention and fun. Serious people in a sober pursuit of social and political change don’t dance jigs down Sixth Avenue like attendees of a Renaissance festival. You look foolish, you smell gross, you are clearly high and you don’t seem to realize that all around you are people who deem you irrelevant.

• There are reasons you haven’t found jobs. The truth? Your tattooed necks, gauged ears, facial piercings and dirty dreadlocks are off-putting. Nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity isn’t a virtue. Occupy reality: Only 4 percent of college graduates are out of work. If you are among that 4 percent, find a mirror and face the problem. It’s not them. It’s you.
(© 2011 Marybeth Hicks)
http://dellsbottomline.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-this_27.html


no photo
Sun 10/30/11 04:02 AM

“Who Parented These People?” - Marybeth Hicks


“Call it an occupational hazard but I can’t look at the Occupy Wall Street protesters without thinking, “Who parented these people?”

As a culture columnist, I’ve commented on the social and political ramifications of the “movement” – now known as “OWS” – whose fairyland agenda can be summarized by one of their placards: “Everything for everybody.”

Thanks to their pipe-dream platform, it’s clear there are people with serious designs on “transformational” change in America who are using the protesters like bedsprings in a brothel.

Yet it’s not my role as a commentator that prompts my parenting question but rather the fact that I’m the mother of four teens and young adults. There are some crucial life lessons that the protesters’ moms clearly have not passed along.

Here, then, are five things the OWS protesters’ mothers should have taught their children but obviously didn’t.

Life isn’t fair. The concept of justice – that everyone should be treated fairly – is a worthy and worthwhile moral imperative on which our nation was founded. But justice and economic equality are not the same. Or, as Mick Jagger said, “You can’t always get what you want.”

No matter how you try to “level the playing field,” some people have better luck, skills, talents or connections that land them in better places. Some seem to have all the advantages in life but squander them, others play the modest hand they’re dealt and make up the difference in hard work and perseverance and some find jobs on Wall Street and eventually buy houses in the Hamptons. Is it fair? Stupid question.

Nothing is “free.” Protesting with signs that seek “free” college degrees and “free” health care make you look like idiots because colleges and hospitals don’t operate on rainbows and sunshine. There is no magic money machine to tap for your meandering educational careers and “slow paths” to adulthood and the 53 percent of taxpaying Americans owe you neither a degree nor an annual physical.

While I’m pointing out this obvious fact, here are a few other things that are not free,overtime for police officers and municipal workers, trash hauling,repairs to fixtures and property, condoms,Band-Aids and the food that inexplicably appears on the tables in your makeshift protest kitchens.Real people with real dollars are underwriting your civic temper tantrum.

Your word is your bond.When you demonstrate to eliminate student loan debt, you are advocating precisely the lack of integrity you decry in others. Loans are made based on solemn promises to repay them. No one forces you to borrow money; you are free to choose educational pursuits that don’t require loans or to seek technical or vocational training that allows you to support yourself and your ongoing educational goals.Also, for the record, being a college student is not a state of victimization.It’s a privilege that billions of young people around the globe would die for.

A protest is not a party.On Saturday in New York, while making a mad dash from my cab to the door of my hotel to avoid you, I saw what isn’t evident in the newsreel footage of your demonstrations: Most of you are doing this only for attention and fun. Serious people in a sober pursuit of social and political change don’t dance jigs down Sixth Avenue like attendees of a Renaissance festival. You look foolish, you smell gross, you are clearly high and you don’t seem to realize that all around you are people who deem you irrelevant.

• There are reasons you haven’t found jobs. The truth? Your tattooed necks, gauged ears, facial piercings and dirty dreadlocks are off-putting. Nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity isn’t a virtue. Occupy reality: Only 4 percent of college graduates are out of work. If you are among that 4 percent, find a mirror and face the problem. It’s not them. It’s you.
(© 2011 Marybeth Hicks)
http://dellsbottomline.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-this_27.html




Peeps need to read more articles like this! As with most protests, OWS started out peacefully and is now pitting police against citizens.....FROM THIS, "A protest against bank bailouts, corporate greed, and unchecked power of Wall Street in Washington" TO THIS, "Remember, the problem is not corruption or greed, the problem is a system that pushes you to give up."
Bit of a contradiction.....Just what is the objective of OWS?... Do they want less government so they can "do it themselves" or do they want more government so they can sit in front of their TV's while they wait for the auto deposit to hit the bank account they set up solely for the purpose of having a depository for their hard earned government subsidy checks.....frustrated

Conrad_73's photo
Sun 10/30/11 04:06 AM


“Who Parented These People?” - Marybeth Hicks


“Call it an occupational hazard but I can’t look at the Occupy Wall Street protesters without thinking, “Who parented these people?”

As a culture columnist, I’ve commented on the social and political ramifications of the “movement” – now known as “OWS” – whose fairyland agenda can be summarized by one of their placards: “Everything for everybody.”

Thanks to their pipe-dream platform, it’s clear there are people with serious designs on “transformational” change in America who are using the protesters like bedsprings in a brothel.

Yet it’s not my role as a commentator that prompts my parenting question but rather the fact that I’m the mother of four teens and young adults. There are some crucial life lessons that the protesters’ moms clearly have not passed along.

Here, then, are five things the OWS protesters’ mothers should have taught their children but obviously didn’t.

Life isn’t fair. The concept of justice – that everyone should be treated fairly – is a worthy and worthwhile moral imperative on which our nation was founded. But justice and economic equality are not the same. Or, as Mick Jagger said, “You can’t always get what you want.”

No matter how you try to “level the playing field,” some people have better luck, skills, talents or connections that land them in better places. Some seem to have all the advantages in life but squander them, others play the modest hand they’re dealt and make up the difference in hard work and perseverance and some find jobs on Wall Street and eventually buy houses in the Hamptons. Is it fair? Stupid question.

Nothing is “free.” Protesting with signs that seek “free” college degrees and “free” health care make you look like idiots because colleges and hospitals don’t operate on rainbows and sunshine. There is no magic money machine to tap for your meandering educational careers and “slow paths” to adulthood and the 53 percent of taxpaying Americans owe you neither a degree nor an annual physical.

While I’m pointing out this obvious fact, here are a few other things that are not free,overtime for police officers and municipal workers, trash hauling,repairs to fixtures and property, condoms,Band-Aids and the food that inexplicably appears on the tables in your makeshift protest kitchens.Real people with real dollars are underwriting your civic temper tantrum.

Your word is your bond.When you demonstrate to eliminate student loan debt, you are advocating precisely the lack of integrity you decry in others. Loans are made based on solemn promises to repay them. No one forces you to borrow money; you are free to choose educational pursuits that don’t require loans or to seek technical or vocational training that allows you to support yourself and your ongoing educational goals.Also, for the record, being a college student is not a state of victimization.It’s a privilege that billions of young people around the globe would die for.

A protest is not a party.On Saturday in New York, while making a mad dash from my cab to the door of my hotel to avoid you, I saw what isn’t evident in the newsreel footage of your demonstrations: Most of you are doing this only for attention and fun. Serious people in a sober pursuit of social and political change don’t dance jigs down Sixth Avenue like attendees of a Renaissance festival. You look foolish, you smell gross, you are clearly high and you don’t seem to realize that all around you are people who deem you irrelevant.

• There are reasons you haven’t found jobs. The truth? Your tattooed necks, gauged ears, facial piercings and dirty dreadlocks are off-putting. Nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity isn’t a virtue. Occupy reality: Only 4 percent of college graduates are out of work. If you are among that 4 percent, find a mirror and face the problem. It’s not them. It’s you.
(© 2011 Marybeth Hicks)
http://dellsbottomline.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-this_27.html




Peeps need to read more articles like this! As with most protests, OWS started out peacefully and is now pitting police against citizens.....FROM THIS, "A protest against bank bailouts, corporate greed, and unchecked power of Wall Street in Washington" TO THIS, "Remember, the problem is not corruption or greed, the problem is a system that pushes you to give up."
Bit of a contradiction.....Just what is the objective of OWS?... Do they want less government so they can "do it themselves" or do they want more government so they can sit in front of their TV's while they wait for the auto deposit to hit the bank account they set up solely for the purpose of having a depository for their hard earned government subsidy checks.....frustrated
I shudder when I even contemplate what they would call Governing!
Tribalism at it's best(Worst)

Conrad_73's photo
Sun 10/30/11 04:07 AM

I find it fascinating that (some) of those who find these protests and protesters "wrong" are the same who have been cheering on and encouraging other countries to rise up aganist their leaders.
Like WE here have no right or reason to be pissed off...wtf!!!!

well,maybe a little comparison between the Systems would go a long way!rofl rofl rofl

Chazster's photo
Sun 10/30/11 08:53 AM




Yet a lot of people are protesting against the top 1%. Not just because of bailouts. My point is that the majority of 1% people have nothing to do with wall street. I am not in agreement that 1% people are bad. I am sure your brother is or one day will be a 1% earner and I am sure as a doctor he is a great man. I don't think he should be punished just because he is in the top %.


I've never heard a single person say that a person is bad just because they are in the 1%.

I have heard many say that they don't deserve the many mechanisms they have for lessening their tax burden.

There is a huge difference between thinking someone is bad, and thinking that our political and economic structures favor them a bit too much.


And I would argue that the majority of 1% don't fall in this category. I would argue that the majority pay more taxes than the people who make less than them.


In total dollars, yes, they do pay more taxes, I didn't and don't dispute that. (Tangentially, not everyone agrees that metric is the one that matters.)

I wasn't questioning total tax contribution, I was saying some people are displeased with the mechanisms available to rich people to lessen their taxes (to less then they would pay if they didn't have those mechanisms).



And a lot of them can't use those mechanisms. Thus raising the tax rates on them don't effect the people that can use them and is very unfair to the people who can't use them and already pay a high percentage of taxes. I mean people pay a lot in taxes already. Not just income, but sales tax, property tax, etc.

no photo
Sun 10/30/11 11:15 AM

And a lot of them can't use those mechanisms. Thus raising the tax rates on them don't effect the people that can use them and is very unfair to the people who can't use them and already pay a high percentage of taxes. I mean people pay a lot in taxes already. Not just income, but sales tax, property tax, etc.


Well I don't think that an across-the board increase in percentages paid by wealthy people is necessarily a good idea. I do think we should take a closer look at the means wealthy people use to lessen their taxes, ask who that serves, and consider eliminating them.

Chazster's photo
Sun 10/30/11 03:05 PM


And a lot of them can't use those mechanisms. Thus raising the tax rates on them don't effect the people that can use them and is very unfair to the people who can't use them and already pay a high percentage of taxes. I mean people pay a lot in taxes already. Not just income, but sales tax, property tax, etc.


Well I don't think that an across-the board increase in percentages paid by wealthy people is necessarily a good idea. I do think we should take a closer look at the means wealthy people use to lessen their taxes, ask who that serves, and consider eliminating them.


I would agree to that. I have no problem closing loopholes. I have a problem with people yelling to raise taxes.

no photo
Mon 10/31/11 08:38 PM



And a lot of them can't use those mechanisms. Thus raising the tax rates on them don't effect the people that can use them and is very unfair to the people who can't use them and already pay a high percentage of taxes. I mean people pay a lot in taxes already. Not just income, but sales tax, property tax, etc.


Well I don't think that an across-the board increase in percentages paid by wealthy people is necessarily a good idea. I do think we should take a closer look at the means wealthy people use to lessen their taxes, ask who that serves, and consider eliminating them.


I would agree to that. I have no problem closing loopholes. I have a problem with people yelling to raise taxes.


Some of those who are 'yelling to raise taxes' are actually yelling to roll back some of the tax breaks for the wealthy. There are 'loopholes' that are accidental consequences of our tax law, and then there are means of avoiding taxes that are there by design.




Chazster's photo
Tue 11/01/11 10:17 AM




And a lot of them can't use those mechanisms. Thus raising the tax rates on them don't effect the people that can use them and is very unfair to the people who can't use them and already pay a high percentage of taxes. I mean people pay a lot in taxes already. Not just income, but sales tax, property tax, etc.


Well I don't think that an across-the board increase in percentages paid by wealthy people is necessarily a good idea. I do think we should take a closer look at the means wealthy people use to lessen their taxes, ask who that serves, and consider eliminating them.


I would agree to that. I have no problem closing loopholes. I have a problem with people yelling to raise taxes.


Some of those who are 'yelling to raise taxes' are actually yelling to roll back some of the tax breaks for the wealthy. There are 'loopholes' that are accidental consequences of our tax law, and then there are means of avoiding taxes that are there by design.





Which is still raising taxes as they were raised by clinton in the first place. The rich already have the highest percentages. If you close the loopholes there is no reason to raise the percentage. If they use the loopholes raising the percentage does nothing.

no photo
Tue 11/01/11 10:43 AM





And a lot of them can't use those mechanisms. Thus raising the tax rates on them don't effect the people that can use them and is very unfair to the people who can't use them and already pay a high percentage of taxes. I mean people pay a lot in taxes already. Not just income, but sales tax, property tax, etc.


Well I don't think that an across-the board increase in percentages paid by wealthy people is necessarily a good idea. I do think we should take a closer look at the means wealthy people use to lessen their taxes, ask who that serves, and consider eliminating them.


I would agree to that. I have no problem closing loopholes. I have a problem with people yelling to raise taxes.


Some of those who are 'yelling to raise taxes' are actually yelling to roll back some of the tax breaks for the wealthy. There are 'loopholes' that are accidental consequences of our tax law, and then there are means of avoiding taxes that are there by design.





Which is still raising taxes as they were raised by clinton in the first place. The rich already have the highest percentages. If you close the loopholes there is no reason to raise the percentage. If they use the loopholes raising the percentage does nothing.


Right! I've said it time and time again....A national sales tax because it levels the playing field and NO loopholes (corps too). Income tax should be bracketed according to level of income and allow only two types of deductions, dependents and mortgage interest. Keeping it simple will make it impossible to cheat in any way other than not filing and that would be very easy to track and correct. Paying taxes is not a requirement, it is a responsibility. If every income earner in the US is paying their "fair" share, even in a bad economy, over time a deficit will become a surplus.