Mass...first..let parents have the right to teach their kids what and when they want...the more rights you give up to governement as insignificant as they may seem..add up..soon you will say they can tell our kids what and what not they are allowed to read (which is already happening) and watch on TV. Second..why bother kids in Kindergarten about that stuff...let them play with pokemon and enjoy their childhood as long as they can before they are indoctrinated into this mess of a world we live in...and if you want to teach them anything...teach them how to read and write first

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewArticle.asp?id=11205
============================================================
How do you cook a frog?

I'm not a frog, and I would not like to be cooked - nor would any self-respecting frog want to be cooked either.

So assuming that Mr. Frog is suddenly dropped in a kettle of hot water, he would promptly jump out, because he doesn't want to be cooked. Besides, the water is hot.

But if Mr. Frog is gently immersed in a kettle of cool comfortable water, it is so enjoyable, and so pleasurable, that he doesn't even notice the very slow flame that is heating his water. He is enjoying the water and pleasures in it until oblivion overtakes him.

I do not want to be in a position of such comfort that I do not notice the terror, the evil, the darkness that slowly overtakes me, engulfs me, and destroys me.

How do you cook a frog? The same way you kill a man's spirit -- little by little by little -- the same way you take his freedoms, take his livelihood, take his will to be a man -- it is done a little at a time, just like you cook the frog.
============================================================

well said frog....I mean spider

Hmmm....

So letting kindergarteners know that babies come from their mother's tummies is "indoctrinat[ing them] into this mess of a world we live in" ???

The problem here is that people hear the phrase "age appropriate sex education" and they -jump to conclusions- without asking what is really meant.

no Mas..the point is why not let PARENTS decide when is the appropriate time to teach their children about where babies come. Its not the states job or anyone else's. I guess if you have it your way...soon once the baby pops out..the state will just take it from there and raise your kid for you.

This conversation is frightfully lacking in specifics. Are you or are you not opposed to allowing kindergarten teachers to say "Babies do not come from cabbage patches, they come from their mothers tummies." ???

>> I guess if you have it your way...soon once the baby pops out..the state will just take it from there and raise your kid for you.

Since you apparently have not noticed, -my way- is to get specifics about something before judging it. Plus I'm a huge fan of science education.

Mass ..I too am a big science education fan..I think its just inappropiate to force sex-ed on kids that age...and what happens when one kid says...Thats not what my mommy told me? or a host of other questions...who decides at that age at what kind of level this should be discussed with children of this age...the state? What is wrong with the teacher just saying your Mommy or daddy will explain where babies come fromand leave it at that.

They have anatomical correct dolls that they use in police stations for helping a child to understand things. There have been teachers who have tried to teach children things but then caught flack from parents and the school board. Two things I remember from Kindergarten; Playing with the clay and nap time.

You know, part of the whole sex ed thing is sending permission slips home...if a parent doesn't sign a permission slip, then the education doesn't happen.

*sigh* I missed out on a few field trips because of that; not the sex ed classes, lol!

So how exactly is answering a child's questions honestly a bad thing...I'm having a hard time understanding that.

Serchin,

I have seen people react to this phrase "age appropriate sex education for kindergarteners" in the most amazingly irrational way - they immediately assume that there is something terrible and evil being advocated, and the jump to a whole host of assumptions about what that means.

I am -not- advocating "age appropriate sex education for kindergarteners". What I -am- advocating, is that people pause for a moment as be sure they know what is being said, and what is not being said, before they pass judgment on a person who -is- (apparently) advocating it. (Obama).

Now, if you are (I don't know for certain, so I'm saying -if-) -if- you are truly coming from the position that kindergarten teachers should -not- even teach the fact that pregnant women carry living, unborn babies in their bellies, then you would probably be truly opposed to -any- interpretation of the phrase "age appropriate sex education for kindergarteners", and you can legitimately say "I think thats a bad idea." That was my purpose in asking that question a few posts back, it was to simplify this conversation.

What I would, personally, advocate has been stated already in this thread - please don't presume I said more than I did. Maybe that would meet some peoples definitions of "age appropriate sexual education".

My entire purpose in this conversation is not to argue about "sex ed in the schools", but to slow some people down in their rush to make assumptions about what Obama was -actually- advocating. Even if you disagree with it, it may not be -nearly- as evil as some people are making it out to be.

I agree, Tomokun. I sure wouldn't want a child to find out the hard way like I did growing up. I sure would sign a permission slip for my child to learn. Ignorance might be bliss in some cases but not all. One would sure want their child to be taught correct information. I can remember when I was told the truth and how curious I was. Curiousity is a part of learning, I think. I remember when an older boy told me about the birds and the bees. I can remember thinking, "You got to be bull****ting me. It really doesn't happen that way." I really wanted to hit him. Later, I had jobs the same way. I was one of the mushroom people because all they did was keep us in the dark and feed us bull****.

Well Tom..you have a legitimate point..First..permission slips would be a good idea..but I doubt very much there would be enough positive results from kindergarten parents to make splitting up a class worth it and Second..children at that age and in there first year at school have probably the widest gap of physical and emotional developement of their lives...some may be ready while others may not..If a child would ask about such matters..I think with a parents consent the teacher could take the child aside a explain the "birds and the Bees" my question is who decides at what extent the "sex-ed" goes to. As Mass was saying..and I agree that saying "a baby comes from Mommy's tummy" rather then the cabbage patch is fine...but where do you draw the line.....that "line" should be left up to the parents to decide at that age.

I can remember trying to have the sex talk with my daughter when she was young. I was so embarrassed. Her reply was. "Sure dad, what do you want to know?" Her mom had already went over it with her. Thank God I didn't have to buy her tampons when she was older. I had enough embarrassment buying tampons and pantyhose for my wife.

LOL...

Massage, I've always like your accuracy in communication

And thanks searchin! Your point also brings up another issue, one that Hill addressed. Kids are not islands, and while splitting up a class may separate the kids whose parents are comfortable and uncomfortable, that just means that there are kids who are going to get taught, and kids who are going to get taught by their peers. Personally, that's the reason why I want to educate my children myself...I plan on community home-schooling in their formative years. Kind of like having a village raise a child, ne?

The point being, the parents only have a say in what their kids are ready to learn when the parents control the environment. As a parent, when you place a child in school you have to consider that you are giving up the right to complain about what they learn in the school-yard because you are giving up control of that aspect of their environment. When I was a kid, I learned about where babies came from by reading...I was reading at the age of five, and managed to find all kinds of questions that my parents didn't feel comfortable answering, lol.

Tom..I agree and thanks also for your always intelligent view points...I guess it comes down to what we define as "sex-ed". I know I didn't have "sex-ed" until late grammar school..7th or 8th grade...sure we learned about plant and animal reproduction in science much earlier but didn't get into the specfics about menstration cycles of women, erections, condoms etc till much later and It hasn't caused me or anyone I know from back then to be disfunctional (not sexually anyway )so why not let the kids learn about that stuff on there own pace from books (like you) or word of mouth on the school yard..instead of trying to explain what Mommy and Daddy do in the bedroom to a 5 year old? It has worked for all these years...why change it. Those that would argue that "look at all the unwanted pregnancies..or sexual transmitted diseases" will find that most if not all of these happen well AFTER the grade they were taught about sex-ed and didn't stop their behavior.Maybe we should teach children about self worth and self respect in Kindergarten first.

I completely agree Search, although the correlation between sexual activity and sex-ed may be slightly skewed due to puberty That was one of my main points from earlier (or another thread), value for sex, love, and marriage can create that sense of responsibility that is important later on in life. It also goes a long way to stem that behavior, showing them that like driving, it is better to wait till they are old enough rather than stealing the car at night.