Umm...this thread troubles me...my friend bl8nt is happy that a couple will die because they didn't pay the government. That disturbs me.

yep itz all bushes fault to

all he has to do is pardon them

http://www.gcstation.net/liefreezone/

The above is another link, to the story of Tommy Cryer. Amazing.

After reading through these links and skimming a couple others, one thing is clear - law does not have to exist for a court to find you guilty of breaking one. All they need is precidant, and the prefix 'Judge' in front of their name. In all the cases I was able to find reference, NEVER has there been a law clearly stated. In fact most of the arguments are basically the same. In the case of Cryer, there is far greater detail. I was a bit lost by all the actual legal jargen, but tried to push through it.

I've actually considered trying to find enough people to STOP filing their tax forms. If enough people did so, congress would have to do something, they certainly could not prosecute thousands of people and put them in jail, there would be a public outcry.

BUT - there is a major problem with that. If you work as a W2 employee, you don't have a choice about paying taxes. Just try telling the human resouce department, you don't want them to take any taxes out of your check.

Of course you can claim the maximum number of dependents and not pay as much, but they will still deduct for medicare, & SSI.

Medicare is a joke - you all know anyone using the system? I know a lot and they can't even get by with it. If you're lucky after retirement you can afford to pay for supplemental insurnace, sometimes as much as $600 a month. If not, you just rack up the bills, or stop taking your meds or simply have a lesser quality of life.

SSI is absolutely absurd. Once you've reached retirement age, you better not get SSI AND continue working. If you receive these benefits, you are only allowed to 'earn' a certain amount of income from working per year or they decrease your SSI payments - WTF is that all about?

Then of course our normal tax percentage that is meant to fund our government, but wait, isn't it taxes that pays the salaries of house and senate and their staff? And how much are our representatives making? And what kind of insurance and pension do they receive? And when are they fully vested to receive such pension and insurance?

OK - SO AGAIN - WHY DO I WANT TO PAY TAXES? AND IF THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES US TO - WHY ARE WE?

geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze allen!!!!


where'd ya get that from!!????


i never thought for a moment that they would die!!!
how could the country stand by for that!!!!!


noooo they will have to win.... they HAVE TO!!!

or it will fade away ..... and pop up next election



allen i am appalled that you would think such a thing!

They have to pay their taxes!!!

I mean, thats theft, isnt it?

The government hates thieves .. it cant stand the competition ..

plus, if everyone stopped paying taxes, how would wars be fought?

Cant have a good democracy without a couple of good wars!!!

somehow this country got along fine without income tax & the fed reserve before 1913...

google money masters and watch it for your history lesson...you will be amazed...

Our tax dollars are not doing anything of benefit. I don't know the statistics, but if you take every tax dollar that is spent to pay for government salaries and benefits, and office supplies and buildings, maintenance and repairs and all the travel expenses and misc. expenses and deduct that from the total tax we pay, then deduct what is supposed to go to SSI and Medicare ---- what amount is left and what could it possibly be paying for?

How about interest on the loans on notes that our government takes from the Federal Reserve system?

Why are we forced to economize, to make due, to have any less benefit from our work than any government official? Why can't they economize, why can't they earn a more normal wage, why can't THEY use the system as we all have to. SSI and Medicar!

So now think again - WTF do you REALLY think your taxes are going toward? And if you think it - look it up and please show me where the benefit to the American people is in paying these taxes. Because I'm not having any luck finding anything that I'm happy supporting with my hard earned dollar.

i would love to take home what i actually earn..wow.

C-A-S-H

Jax, the Browns are being persecuted because they went public, Feds tend to make examples...or martyrs of such people.

Davinci fast forward about 95 years, in 1913 there was no interstate highway system, no welfare program, no medicare/medicade, ADC, federal funding to schools or any of the other entitlement programs that have been enacted by congress.

I have asked this question before and I will ask it again, without income taxes how are all these entitlement programs going to be funded? The money has to come from somewhere, if not from income tax then from where? If there is no money to fund the programs which ones do you advocate that we cut first?

Those are simple straightforward questions and doesn't require a long rant about your favorite and seemingly only subject the Federal Reserve to answer them.

When you advocate everyone quit payting taxes it seems to me that ya all been grazing too long in the loco weed or something because you come up with these half baked ideas without giving an iota of thougth to the repurcussions of such an act. Further, when pushed for an answer, you go off on a tangent to another subject.

No Garden..my favorite subject is sex....but I digress....

we got along fine w/o the fed reserve before 1913...maybe entitlement programs are
the result of our salaries/ earnings being sliced & diced to cover the interest on loans to the
banks / bankers in the fed...??...ya think that may be the case?....they print money
for nothing and charge us interest on it?...you like that idea?...

Find one sentence from me that tells people to stop paying their tax....Cant find
one ?...because I have never said that...I do applaud others that take on the system..
and think we should take a look...

Half baked ideas?....everything I post is usually provided with links to educated
scholars & investigators...What is apparent to me is that anyone that questions the
status quo that you operate under is either a liberal or a lunatic in your eyes...
At least I question the why of things..instead of blindly following...

If you dont like my posts feel free to ignore and go to the next one...oops..there
I go...off on another tangent...

Unfourtunatly, some people on here have a very "Joe Friday" view of the world today. An obsessive "by the book" thin line mentality. An unwavering obedience to what's set up as "authority", never questioning anything those in "authority" tells them. I couldn't live my life like that. I'm an individualist. I question everything, not to be a rabble-rouser, but to verify what's been told to me.

"Trust, yet verify".

These were the words Ronald Reagan, icon of neocons everywhere. Yet, they question nothing said by the Bush Administration. They happily eat every ounce of **** this clown show shovels their way. That's Davinci's message in a nutshell:Think for yourselves, People!!!

Unfourtunatly, some people on here have a very "Joe Friday" view of the world today. An obsessive "by the book" thin line mentality. An unwavering obedience to what's set up as "authority", never questioning anything those in "authority" tells them. I couldn't live my life like that. I'm an individualist. I question everything, not to be a rabble-rouser, but to verify what's been told to me.

"Trust, yet verify".

These were the words Ronald Reagan, icon of neocons everywhere. Yet, they question nothing said by the Bush Administration. They happily eat every ounce of **** this clown show shovels their way. That's Davinci's message in a nutshell:Think for yourselves, People!!!

Sorry, I posted twice. Oh, well, now everyone can enjoy my post twice as much.

Davinci, once again you artfully dodged the question. How would all the programs be funded without taxes. Please answer that. Cut the smoke and mirrors and just answer the question.

"Find one sentence from me that tells people to stop paying their tax....Cant find
one ?...because I have never said that...I do applaud others that take on the system..
and think we should take a look... "

"somehow this country got along fine without income tax & the fed reserve before 1913... "

While you don't specifically advocate not paying income taxes you do imply that we could get along just fine without them, what is your master plan. Please enlighten me.

"We are proceeding carefully to make sure no one gets hurt," says U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier, the lead officer handling the siege. "We are aware that there are guns in there."


Men with guns ....Riiight

Working Americans like lower taxes. So do I. Lower taxes benefit all of us, creating jobs and allowing us to make more decisions for ourselves about our lives.

Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother’s payroll taxes by $40 a month or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains taxes and hire more employees, that tax cut is a good thing. Lower taxes allow more spending, saving, and investing which helps the economy — that means all of us.

Real conservatives have always supported low taxes and low spending.

But today, too many politicians and lobbyists are spending America into ruin. We are nine trillion dollars in debt as a nation. Our mounting government debt endangers the financial future of our children and grandchildren. If we don’t cut spending now, higher taxes and economic disaster will be in their future — and yours.

In addition, the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply — making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to “we the people.”

Worse, our economy and our very independence as a nation is increasingly in the hands of foreign governments such as China and Saudi Arabia, because their central banks also finance our runaway spending.

We cannot continue to allow private banks, wasteful agencies, lobbyists, corporations on welfare, and governments collecting foreign aid to dictate the size of our ballooning budget. We need a new method to prioritize our spending. It’s called the Constitution of the United States.

____________________
Ok Garden...the above is from the Ron Paul website...I've thrown it in here because I agree with it...
here's my take...by far and away the military budget is the largest expense we have as a nation...I would begin immediately by withdrawing our troops from Korea, Japan, Germany, Iraq, ....and a number of the other 120 plus bases we have in the world...The idea of an American Empire like Rome has failed...and is only bankrupting us...Bring them home...protect our shores..our borders...the savings there alone would pay for many of the entitlement programs..I would also get rid of the depts of Commerce, education, Fema, IRS, homeland security...any number of others that should be state functions anyway...more savings there in waste & administration costs of a bloated bureaocracy.....Printing money would be a government function...no private banks ....provide opportunity for creative retirement options for future generations...means test current soc security and other benefits...look at consolidating intelligence agencies..CIA, FBI , NIA, on & on...do we need all these agencies NOT talking to each other...have one domestic..one foreign period....
by far the poor & middle class pay a very small part of the collected taxes yearly...abolish the IRS & income tax...while at the same time seriously plug corporate loopholes...

I could go on & on Garden...but I know what you will say already....because I am calling for a complete overhaul of the country..you're satisfied apparently with the gas guzzler we're riding in...some of us see a better future if we insist on it...

Davinci you have some valid points, but throwing the entitlement programs from the federal level back to the state lelel does not eliminate the need for financing the program it just puts the burden of the expense of a smaller number of people. That our system needs a complete overhaul is an understatement but I would rate the chances of that ever happening as slightly less than being trampled by pregnant elephant while attending a beach party at the North Pole Fortunately I feel that we will survive not because of government but in spite of them.

Garden,
I have to agree with Davinci. The general population really is not suppossed to pay taxes. The income tax was created in 1913 right after the Fed resr b/c they knew it was the only way for the Gov to come up with money to pay the interest back for borrowing our own money from the Fed Res. Now income tax is legal to an extent. the code reads " anyone having any gains from the dealing with the fedral govt. Which means Federal employees and business doing business with the US. I believe it was the GAO who said the Federal government uses income tax to pay for the interest owed to the Fed Res. So they cant even generate enough money to pay that much less entitlement programs. The Feds make more than enough money to pay for all those programs thru gas tax and state taxes "their share" to the Fed Govt and arms sales. All of those F-16's and tanks we give people like Iraq "back then" generate alot of income. So if all the people that pay taxes and shouldnt stopped tomorrow tha only difference you would like find is the deficit getting larger and since we are in the middle of a war and checks are being written and money created out of the thin air that tradition will continue and the tab will climb just a tad further. This is common knowledge and easy to verify thru the GAO and our own govt sources. What is a bit more difficult to find is how much the Fed REs makes each year at our expense b/c they have no accountability whatsoever to congress much less the people of this nation. However in 1992 alone I believe they made 292 billion in interest charges from the US so you can imagine if we are paying them that much in interest then if we started printing and issuing our own money backed by gold or silver and not having to pay to borrow it like the constitution says then we wouldnt have a need for income tax. :-) The IRS code contains millions of words but everytime someone gets their case thrown out of court just inches the way towards the US having to deal with the issue all over b/c its in dire need of an overhaul. the last case thrown out of court cited an IRS agent saying " We dont sign the 1040's saying I affirm I owe this and sign it to be correct. In other words they said when we sign the tax form we are the ones saying we owe that money not them. they are enforcing our statement. So when you file taxes you can say you owe nothing and request a refund of funds held. So their fear is everyone will catch on and they will be out of a job. :-) Really... No taxes means no IRS. for the most part anyway.