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Topic: Ship of Theseus
JERMANICUS's photo
Mon 01/30/12 02:30 PM
I completely disagree with this. A new carburator doesn't make an engine a new engine and a new heart doesn't turn someone into someone else. Sounds like BS to me.

no photo
Mon 01/30/12 02:38 PM

I completely disagree with this. A new carburator doesn't make an engine a new engine and a new heart doesn't turn someone into someone else. Sounds like BS to me.


laugh A new carburetor doesn't make an engine a "new" engine....It just mean the engine, once the replacement carburetor is installed, is fundamentally changed ...It is no longer the same engine it was prior to changing out the carburetors....Same thing applies to the heart transplant patient....Both are still the same, but different....flowerforyou

It really isn't BS....laugh

no photo
Mon 01/30/12 03:04 PM
A friend of mine had a heart transplant, they used a baboon's...now he won't stop flinging his poo at people.

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Mon 01/30/12 03:10 PM

A friend of mine had a heart transplant, they used a baboon's...now he won't stop flinging his poo at people.


Hey!!...I saw that on 20/20 last week..!!!laugh

no photo
Mon 01/30/12 03:21 PM


A friend of mine had a heart transplant, they used a baboon's...now he won't stop flinging his poo at people.


Hey!!...I saw that on 20/20 last week..!!!laugh


He flung his poo at them too.

no photo
Mon 01/30/12 03:29 PM



A friend of mine had a heart transplant, they used a baboon's...now he won't stop flinging his poo at people.


Hey!!...I saw that on 20/20 last week..!!!laugh


He flung his poo at them too.


I know....they were really pizzed about it too...didn't see it coming...bigsmile

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Mon 01/30/12 03:44 PM

I completely disagree with this. A new carburator doesn't make an engine a new engine and a new heart doesn't turn someone into someone else.


A new carburetor may not make it a 'new' engine, but it is no longer the 'same' engine.

A new heart doesn't turn someone into another person, but they are no longer the same.





Redykeulous's photo
Mon 01/30/12 05:32 PM


So a person that gets a heart transplant is no longer the same person?
Lets add another element.

What if he has a heart grown that is identical from a genetic stand point but without the deficiency. Yes its different, but from a biological stand point it does not have the issues of rejection.

It belongs . . . . the other parts recognize it . . .

What does it mean to belong?


Back to the quote in blue soon but first, so far we have found some examples to refer to:

A chair that is adorned vs. a chair that has been modified
a transplanted heart, grown (from the individuals stem cells perhaps) that is identical, from a genetic stand point, but without the deficiency
putting one persons brain into another persons body
an engine out of a 1984 Trans Am from the junk yard to replace in my 1984 Trans Am of the same model that engine

Here’s a new one, possibly a paradox in itself or possible it offers help in answering the question What does it mean to belong? An individual who self identifies as a ‘gender-bender’ and the full-blown counterpart a surgically ‘complete’ transgendered person.

When humans assign identity to an inanimate object, the identity of the parts that make up the whole tend to lose significance as their measure alone is worth less than the whole. The parts take on the identity of the whole.

When we change a part of an object to repair or enhance its original function (or purpose) we do not, typically, assign it a different identity.

A toaster is a toaster whether it accepts two slices of bread or four or whether it has a browning setting or not.

A vehicle that looks like a 1984 Trans Am is still identified as such (unless a primo financial deal depends on it having ‘original parts from that year’s make & model). Often times, it’s not even a matter of the vehicle having ITS own original parts, as long as they are the parts from a similarly identified vehicle.

Then we move on to humans. We can certainly create stereotypical identities and place individuals within that construct – but when humans assign identity to other humans, there must be a consensus between those being identified as and those who do the identifying, in order for that label to become a part of one’s self-identity.

What does it mean to belong?
For humans it seems that belonging is a necessity. To meet this need, we must be welcome, accepted, and valued by various groups of people.

There have always been transgendered people, in fact some tribes have promoted this behavior when females were prized and stolen away leaving insufficient women to take on the woman’s role in a partnership.

But in many countries, in the civilized world developed more modern beliefs that made transgenders unacceptable to the max - by putting to death those who were accused or found out.

That very brief history is important because it supports the point I am making: That much of our self-proclaimed identity is dependent on the need to be accepted.

Why is that important to the discussion? Because the function/purpose of humans is not thought of in the same way as objects AND neither humans nor objects relate their identity to ‘reality’ – reality being that we (humans) seem to have self-defined functions or purpose which become THE WHOLE. That is what I was referring to with toaster, chair, & car parts replacement - they get lost 'under' the identity of the whole.

We think of ourselves, apart from the stuff we are made of thus, we find it unacceptable to think that something as “insignificant” as an organ transplant, could possibly change us as the WHOLE person, because we have a self-proclaimed identity and it is imperative to our acceptance within our social groups that we do not change that identity.

Thoughts?

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