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| Topic: Trayvon Martin death won't go to Florida grand jury | |
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what has that got to do with the case being an impetus for further review of the law? I am struggling to follow your train of thought.
You say this case has led to it (it being the reconsideration of this law), but then say this when I explain its not an issue in this case? Call me confused. Why should there be a careful review of the law if the law is not involved in the case in question? Reasonable fear for life and limb is what his self defense claim will revolve around, a standard set forth in the 1985 supreme court ruling, not something I have heard anyone argue against based on this case, only SYG which has nothing to do with his self defense claim. please think about what this would imply if all that is required for deadly force is 'fear for life and limb' , than a burglar who is confronted with a gun, could kill a homeowner a burglar, who is wrestled to the ground by bystandards, could shoot one of them once you INITIATE physical threat, you cannot then claim self defense if you end up KILLING someone with deadly force,, because they 'may' have hurt you after you started the threat,,,, that makes NO Sense there is general law concerning self defense but it does not apply to EVERY situation and it does not apply to perpertrators of crimes in which the other party also had reason to fear for their own safety,,, |
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what has that got to do with the case being an impetus for further review of the law? I am struggling to follow your train of thought.
You say this case has led to it (it being the reconsideration of this law), but then say this when I explain its not an issue in this case? Call me confused. Why should there be a careful review of the law if the law is not involved in the case in question? Reasonable fear for life and limb is what his self defense claim will revolve around, a standard set forth in the 1985 supreme court ruling. when the story was first reported, it was reported that they couldnt arrest Zimmerman because of 'stand your ground' laws... this , in turn, lead to an increased/heightened interest in such laws and a call for review in come places of those laws.... Honestly about 90% of people that talk about this case just have no clue what the law actually says, no less how things are determined. Long thread over at the JREF on this one. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=231831 |
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That's because this case against Zimmerman is beginning to unravel and the truth is starting to surface. He will be cleared of this then there will be riots in Florida. or, a grand jury was just not needed to make the decision,,,, A minor was killed by an adult with a weapon, this would be cause for a grand jury. |
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what has that got to do with the case being an impetus for further review of the law? I am struggling to follow your train of thought.
You say this case has led to it (it being the reconsideration of this law), but then say this when I explain its not an issue in this case? Call me confused. Why should there be a careful review of the law if the law is not involved in the case in question? Reasonable fear for life and limb is what his self defense claim will revolve around, a standard set forth in the 1985 supreme court ruling. when the story was first reported, it was reported that they couldnt arrest Zimmerman because of 'stand your ground' laws... this , in turn, lead to an increased/heightened interest in such laws and a call for review in come places of those laws.... Honestly about 90% of people that talk about this case just have no clue what the law actually says, no less how things are determined. Long thread over at the JREF on this one. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=231831 It will be an interesting case if it sees court determining who was in the wrong , the one who was in pursuit, or the one who was trying to 'get away and who introduced a lethal threat,,,, should be interesting fodder for both attorneys,,,, |
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what has that got to do with the case being an impetus for further review of the law? I am struggling to follow your train of thought.
You say this case has led to it (it being the reconsideration of this law), but then say this when I explain its not an issue in this case? Call me confused. Why should there be a careful review of the law if the law is not involved in the case in question? Reasonable fear for life and limb is what his self defense claim will revolve around, a standard set forth in the 1985 supreme court ruling. when the story was first reported, it was reported that they couldnt arrest Zimmerman because of 'stand your ground' laws... this , in turn, lead to an increased/heightened interest in such laws and a call for review in come places of those laws.... Honestly about 90% of people that talk about this case just have no clue what the law actually says, no less how things are determined. Long thread over at the JREF on this one. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=231831 It will be an interesting case if it sees court determining who was in the wrong , the one who was in pursuit, or the one who was trying to 'get away and who introduced a lethal threat,,,, should be interesting fodder for both attorneys,,,, It may never see a criminal court, but I will bet it goes to civil for wrongful death.. |
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what has that got to do with the case being an impetus for further review of the law? I am struggling to follow your train of thought.
You say this case has led to it (it being the reconsideration of this law), but then say this when I explain its not an issue in this case? Call me confused. Why should there be a careful review of the law if the law is not involved in the case in question? Reasonable fear for life and limb is what his self defense claim will revolve around, a standard set forth in the 1985 supreme court ruling. when the story was first reported, it was reported that they couldnt arrest Zimmerman because of 'stand your ground' laws... this , in turn, lead to an increased/heightened interest in such laws and a call for review in come places of those laws.... Honestly about 90% of people that talk about this case just have no clue what the law actually says, no less how things are determined. Long thread over at the JREF on this one. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=231831 It will be an interesting case if it sees court determining who was in the wrong , the one who was in pursuit, or the one who was trying to 'get away and who introduced a lethal threat,,,, should be interesting fodder for both attorneys,,,, It may never see a criminal court, but I will bet it goes to civil for wrongful death.. quite possible too even if not found guilty of murder, he could easily be found RESPONSIBLE for the death |
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what has that got to do with the case being an impetus for further review of the law? I am struggling to follow your train of thought.
You say this case has led to it (it being the reconsideration of this law), but then say this when I explain its not an issue in this case? Call me confused. Why should there be a careful review of the law if the law is not involved in the case in question? Reasonable fear for life and limb is what his self defense claim will revolve around, a standard set forth in the 1985 supreme court ruling. when the story was first reported, it was reported that they couldnt arrest Zimmerman because of 'stand your ground' laws... this , in turn, lead to an increased/heightened interest in such laws and a call for review in come places of those laws.... Honestly about 90% of people that talk about this case just have no clue what the law actually says, no less how things are determined. Long thread over at the JREF on this one. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=231831 It will be an interesting case if it sees court determining who was in the wrong , the one who was in pursuit, or the one who was trying to 'get away and who introduced a lethal threat,,,, should be interesting fodder for both attorneys,,,, It may never see a criminal court, but I will bet it goes to civil for wrongful death.. quite possible too even if not found guilty of murder, he could easily be found RESPONSIBLE for the death He isn't getting charged with murder.. Involuntary Manslaughter is about it.. |
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what has that got to do with the case being an impetus for further review of the law? I am struggling to follow your train of thought.
You say this case has led to it (it being the reconsideration of this law), but then say this when I explain its not an issue in this case? Call me confused. Why should there be a careful review of the law if the law is not involved in the case in question? Reasonable fear for life and limb is what his self defense claim will revolve around, a standard set forth in the 1985 supreme court ruling. when the story was first reported, it was reported that they couldnt arrest Zimmerman because of 'stand your ground' laws... this , in turn, lead to an increased/heightened interest in such laws and a call for review in come places of those laws.... Honestly about 90% of people that talk about this case just have no clue what the law actually says, no less how things are determined. Long thread over at the JREF on this one. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=231831 It will be an interesting case if it sees court determining who was in the wrong , the one who was in pursuit, or the one who was trying to 'get away and who introduced a lethal threat,,,, should be interesting fodder for both attorneys,,,, It may never see a criminal court, but I will bet it goes to civil for wrongful death.. quite possible too even if not found guilty of murder, he could easily be found RESPONSIBLE for the death He isn't getting charged with murder.. Involuntary Manslaughter is about it.. I agree. IT wont be anything with an intent rider on it,,, involuntary manslaughter or negligent homicide are more likely |
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In Florida, cases wherein the perp is charged with First Degree Murder go to the Grand Jury. Zimmerman could still be charged with Murder 2 or any host of other crimes.
Not saying that he should be, just clarifying things a bit. |
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Just goes to show, it's not Al Sharpton or any other mobs decision or choice. Once again, the Justice System has once again worked. I agree, lets see what the investigation continues to turn up,,,,and what happens from there,,,, It's a Done Deal. dont bet on it they didnt use a grand jury for OJ either,,,its not an absolute,,, Where is O.J now? look in Nevada. when Obama leaves office There will be a Pardon for him. |
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Just goes to show, it's not Al Sharpton or any other mobs decision or choice. Once again, the Justice System has once again worked. I agree, lets see what the investigation continues to turn up,,,,and what happens from there,,,, It's a Done Deal. dont bet on it they didnt use a grand jury for OJ either,,,its not an absolute,,, Where is O.J now? look in Nevada. when Obama leaves office There will be a Pardon for him. what? OJ is serving a ridiculous sentence for a ridiculous offense to punish him for not receiving the verdict the authorities wanted him to receive in his first trial there wont be a pardon,,,they worked too hard to get him where he is,,,, |
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I am so pissed off at the media for blowing this out of proportion and lying and doctoring evidence. They for one deserve criminal charges. Secondly people on neighborhood watches are supposed to be trained by police what they can and cannot do. I am pretty sure Zimmerman received no such training. One big Question is why Treyvon didn't call the police himself. He had a cell phone. He could have said, "Hey, I am being followed." Next the police response was so WRONG! They began to handle this like Firemen and it took a little time for them to get their act together. I feel this was a perfect storm of stupidity that led to a tragic misunderstanding. But some things many choose to overlook, Treyvon was no saint. There is a chance he tried to get all Macho on someone and he may have tried to handle things on his own. That cost him if he made the decision to try to be the man in this situation. If I had a gun following someone who was acting suspicious and that someone punched me chances are I would shoot them and unload the entire magazine into them. But I know all I am allowed to do is follow and observe and avoid contact if at all possible. All I am there for is to make sure the police know what they are getting into and let them do their job UNLESS LIFE IS INDEED ON THE LINE. Now all the parents want if revenge even if the facts do come out against them. It will be like Rodney King all over again and those Ghetto Trolls the Reverend Al Sharpton and the Reverend Jessie Jackson are spewing their hate speak and whipping the black community up into a frenzy. No outreach to protect others from this mistake happening again. No trying to make the community a better place by trying to resolve this issue properly. Just two racist priests, a hoard of Attorneys, and a lot of hate. Yep, this is going to prevent more stupidity from happening, maybe in backwards land. I've been saying this from day one. Martin was trying to be a hard a$$ PUNK. He could have dialed 9-1-1, gone to the nearest house and asked for help or business. |
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That's because this case against Zimmerman is beginning to unravel and the truth is starting to surface. He will be cleared of this then there will be riots in Florida. or, a grand jury was just not needed to make the decision,,,, However from what I know about this case it will not be shocking when they find it justified, in fact the only reason I could see it going to trial would because its election year. October is the month to look for, if they do not start the proceedings prior to that then its not going to court at all. it is true it wont be shocking to be found justified however, a reason it could go to trial is if there is reasonable suspicion that the denfendant has created the circumstances of the death by his own wrongful conduct, which would negate his right to invoke a self defense,, defense which could very EASILY be the case here,,, thats what i'm thinking here... zimmermans actions, whether attacked or not, is the whole point here... he should have never approached the kid, and the kid would still be alive if he hadn't... The PUNK approached Zimmerman as he was getting back in his car and asked if he had a problem and when Zimmerman stated no then the PUNK said you do now and proceeded to start a fight with Zimmerman. |
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That's because this case against Zimmerman is beginning to unravel and the truth is starting to surface. He will be cleared of this then there will be riots in Florida. or, a grand jury was just not needed to make the decision,,,, However from what I know about this case it will not be shocking when they find it justified, in fact the only reason I could see it going to trial would because its election year. October is the month to look for, if they do not start the proceedings prior to that then its not going to court at all. it is true it wont be shocking to be found justified however, a reason it could go to trial is if there is reasonable suspicion that the denfendant has created the circumstances of the death by his own wrongful conduct, which would negate his right to invoke a self defense,, defense which could very EASILY be the case here,,, thats what i'm thinking here... zimmermans actions, whether attacked or not, is the whole point here... he should have never approached the kid, and the kid would still be alive if he hadn't... The PUNK approached Zimmerman as he was getting back in his car and asked if he had a problem and when Zimmerman stated no then the PUNK said you do now and proceeded to start a fight with Zimmerman. that is Zimmermans account, but it hasnt been proven and its just not the likeliest scenario,,,, sounds like something he saw on a movie and decided to repeat as his story,,, |
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I am so pissed off at the media for blowing this out of proportion and lying and doctoring evidence. They for one deserve criminal charges. Secondly people on neighborhood watches are supposed to be trained by police what they can and cannot do. I am pretty sure Zimmerman received no such training. One big Question is why Treyvon didn't call the police himself. He had a cell phone. He could have said, "Hey, I am being followed." Next the police response was so WRONG! They began to handle this like Firemen and it took a little time for them to get their act together. I feel this was a perfect storm of stupidity that led to a tragic misunderstanding. But some things many choose to overlook, Treyvon was no saint. There is a chance he tried to get all Macho on someone and he may have tried to handle things on his own. That cost him if he made the decision to try to be the man in this situation. If I had a gun following someone who was acting suspicious and that someone punched me chances are I would shoot them and unload the entire magazine into them. But I know all I am allowed to do is follow and observe and avoid contact if at all possible. All I am there for is to make sure the police know what they are getting into and let them do their job UNLESS LIFE IS INDEED ON THE LINE. Now all the parents want if revenge even if the facts do come out against them. It will be like Rodney King all over again and those Ghetto Trolls the Reverend Al Sharpton and the Reverend Jessie Jackson are spewing their hate speak and whipping the black community up into a frenzy. No outreach to protect others from this mistake happening again. No trying to make the community a better place by trying to resolve this issue properly. Just two racist priests, a hoard of Attorneys, and a lot of hate. Yep, this is going to prevent more stupidity from happening, maybe in backwards land. I've been saying this from day one. Martin was trying to be a hard a$$ PUNK. He could have dialed 9-1-1, gone to the nearest house and asked for help or business. help me understand why the kid is the 'punk'? he changed directions, he RAN the other way,,,but because he didnt do even more to lose the pursuit of some stranger,, that makes HIM the punk? |
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Just goes to show, it's not Al Sharpton or any other mobs decision or choice. Once again, the Justice System has once again worked. I agree, lets see what the investigation continues to turn up,,,,and what happens from there,,,, It's a Done Deal. dont bet on it they didnt use a grand jury for OJ either,,,its not an absolute,,, Where is O.J now? look in Nevada. when Obama leaves office There will be a Pardon for him. what? OJ is serving a ridiculous sentence for a ridiculous offense to punish him for not receiving the verdict the authorities wanted him to receive in his first trial there wont be a pardon,,,they worked too hard to get him where he is,,,, Robbery is a ridiculous offense?!?!?!?! |
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Just goes to show, it's not Al Sharpton or any other mobs decision or choice. Once again, the Justice System has once again worked. I agree, lets see what the investigation continues to turn up,,,,and what happens from there,,,, It's a Done Deal. dont bet on it they didnt use a grand jury for OJ either,,,its not an absolute,,, Where is O.J now? look in Nevada. when Obama leaves office There will be a Pardon for him. what? OJ is serving a ridiculous sentence for a ridiculous offense to punish him for not receiving the verdict the authorities wanted him to receive in his first trial there wont be a pardon,,,they worked too hard to get him where he is,,,, Robbery is a ridiculous offense?!?!?!?! when the items are yours,, yep.... |
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Just goes to show, it's not Al Sharpton or any other mobs decision or choice. Once again, the Justice System has once again worked. I agree, lets see what the investigation continues to turn up,,,,and what happens from there,,,, It's a Done Deal. dont bet on it they didnt use a grand jury for OJ either,,,its not an absolute,,, Where is O.J now? look in Nevada. when Obama leaves office There will be a Pardon for him. what? OJ is serving a ridiculous sentence for a ridiculous offense to punish him for not receiving the verdict the authorities wanted him to receive in his first trial there wont be a pardon,,,they worked too hard to get him where he is,,,, Robbery is a ridiculous offense?!?!?!?! when the items are yours,, yep.... If the items were his , why did he use a gun instead of the law to get them? The authorities that you speak of, would they be white authorities in your mind? 
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Just goes to show, it's not Al Sharpton or any other mobs decision or choice. Once again, the Justice System has once again worked. I agree, lets see what the investigation continues to turn up,,,,and what happens from there,,,, It's a Done Deal. dont bet on it they didnt use a grand jury for OJ either,,,its not an absolute,,, Where is O.J now? look in Nevada. when Obama leaves office There will be a Pardon for him. what? OJ is serving a ridiculous sentence for a ridiculous offense to punish him for not receiving the verdict the authorities wanted him to receive in his first trial there wont be a pardon,,,they worked too hard to get him where he is,,,, Robbery is a ridiculous offense?!?!?!?! when the items are yours,, yep.... If the items were his , why did he use a gun instead of the law to get them? The authorities that you speak of, would they be white authorities in your mind?
HE didnt use a gun the people who rolled on him and got deals, and told him about the items and took him to where they were,, are the ones who actually had weapons,,,, |
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Just goes to show, it's not Al Sharpton or any other mobs decision or choice. Once again, the Justice System has once again worked. I agree, lets see what the investigation continues to turn up,,,,and what happens from there,,,, It's a Done Deal. dont bet on it they didnt use a grand jury for OJ either,,,its not an absolute,,, Where is O.J now? look in Nevada. when Obama leaves office There will be a Pardon for him. what? OJ is serving a ridiculous sentence for a ridiculous offense to punish him for not receiving the verdict the authorities wanted him to receive in his first trial there wont be a pardon,,,they worked too hard to get him where he is,,,, Robbery is a ridiculous offense?!?!?!?! when the items are yours,, yep.... If the items were his , why did he use a gun instead of the law to get them? The authorities that you speak of, would they be white authorities in your mind?
they would be any shade that feels above the law in how they 'get their man' |
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