The church should be a place to seek wisdom and guidance, to pray for strength, to pray/seek for forgiveness of sins, to change, to practice faith/prayer, to show tolerance to allow seeking forgiveneess, to lead through chistian maturity, to allow change.....as Jesus said to Mary Magdellan whose set upon by demons and freed by Jesus

Luke 8:1-3: Afterward [Jesus] journeyed from one town and village to another, preaching and proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. Accompanying him were the Twelve and some women who had been cured of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, Joanna, the wife of Herod's steward Chuza, Susanna, and many others who provided for them out of their resources.

John 8:1-11

8 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Should we be any less tolerant and not allow a sinner to come to god through our prejudices? Should we refuse anyone to seek forgiveness through jesus christ? Should hands not be laid upon the wicked to cast demons from the soul? By what right, do we have to deny anyone opportunity of forgiveness and to become faithful?

Amen.

There are churches and individual Christians who are passive toward gay lifestyles. There are many who don't intend to teach what the Word says.

There are many who will only teach Jesus' forgiveness of sin,
but they are reluctant to "rock the boat"
by reminding them, as Jesus said...to "go and sin no more".

Tolerance to many "Christians" today simply means to "live and let live".

If you tell someone who is actively gay that God doesn't condone the lifestyle...
they or someone else will accuse you of judging or condemning the person.
Oftentimes you will be accused of hate.

more poignantly , do children 'sin',, if they only know what an adult shows them and the adults tell them it is natural , normal, ok,,,,,that the bible only teaches to not be unhospitable to visitors?

can they be considered sinning if that is their reality?

if Adam and Eve had no KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, could they have ever sinned?

a church is one place to seek knowledge that many kids no longer have access to in their home or community,,,and they grow into adults who still dont have the knowledge

Ever heard of the saying "love the sinner but hate the sin?" I think that is how it should be. When a homosexual walks into the church we should not cast them out or start rebuking satan, they have come for healing. If we as "Christians" portray Jesus Christ well enough as to how we treat the next person, change is bound to take place. And alot of time people carry scars in their souls engraved in their childhood so for me we should address the child in a person before we want to address the person we see today. The tree only bears the fruits of the seeds that were sown...

love the part about how we already have 'equal' rights and restrictions,


I always argued that marital laws were never about what makes us 'happy'

or marrying 'whoever we want to'

Wow, the story about the 7 years old boy who was gang raped by men, well, that was the goal of Satan to destroy someone young like that to make him become gay. All crimes are like that. Let me give you an other example. Say an adult male touches a young girl underage say age 5.. the girl will grow up hating men OR will be crazy about men. I knew of a Christian woman.. how sad she was.. she was raped by 3 different men while she was in college and force her to do one way sexually. That method she told me privately cringle me. She likes that method ever since she was raped three times.

That got me a bigger picture when she told me how things worked. The story goes back to Sodom and Gomorrah that those men wanted to know the angels for themselves.. if you know what that means.. to try to convert those into homosexuals.

I knew of a houseparent at a Deaf school touched boys for 25 years and no one believed boys until that houseparent who is really gay married a woman who was the school supertendent. She found out when he did it again with another boy while they were married and fired him but let him walk.

Last I heard he is a lifeguard!?

Ok, enough of those true stories.. you all get the point that it is the agenda or goals of GLBT to destroy people at their weakness point of their lives such as childhood, when people are confused, and even Christians! I had a super in my old apartment who was gay and he did on purpose stepped on my hand when we, the tenants were invited to his apartment for welcome party since he was new. I was quickly warned by another Christian neighbor of mine about him and I was on alert. I was on the floor because there were no more chairs. He stepped on me and then he touched my hand and rubbed like a woman would do to a man. I quickly removed and be alert. I gave him that face of "Do not touch me!" Later, another time, I told him this question, "Do you know where you are going after you die say.. in three years?" He said, "Yeah, I know where I am going because I know God reject my sexual preference, my homosexuality and that is why I am an atheist." I asked him, "Why athiest if you believe there is God?" He said that athiests do believe there is God but is against God. Then I told him, "Then because you said you are going to hell in 3 years, so it shall happen if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your LORD and Saviour and repent of your sins against God." He said, "Ok, that is where I am going in 3 years."

Three short years later, my mom got a call from my super's brother since he was trying to find his dead brother's will and testment. He was killed in an automobile accident on way back to my hometown after he left for Atlanta, GA to be with his LD boyfriend. I realized God was really speaking through me and he went down to hell! I use my testmony I just spoke here as my witnessing tool to all kinds of GLBT.

Many Christians feared me. Because I spoke the Truth. I hardly get talked with Christians because I am very brave to witness the toughest of all.

A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon from St. Catherine’s monastery on Mt. Sinai. It shows two robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon, Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The “husband and wife” are in fact two men.

The very idea of a Christian homosexual marriage seems incredible. Yet after a twelve year search of Catholic and Orthodox church archives Yale history professor John Boswell has discovered that a type of Christian homosexual “marriage” did exist as late as the 18th century. Contrary to myth, Christianity’s concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has evolved as a concept and as a ritual.

Boswell found records of same sex unions in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, Istanbul, and in Sinai, covering a period from the 8th to 18th centuries. Nor is he the first to make such a discovery. The Dominican Jacques Goar (1601-1653) includes such ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek prayer books. (ref: Irish Times)

A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon from St. Catherine’s monastery on Mt. Sinai. It shows two robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon, Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The “husband and wife” are in fact two men.

The very idea of a Christian homosexual marriage seems incredible. Yet after a twelve year search of Catholic and Orthodox church archives Yale history professor John Boswell has discovered that a type of Christian homosexual “marriage” did exist as late as the 18th century. Contrary to myth, Christianity’s concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has evolved as a concept and as a ritual.

Boswell found records of same sex unions in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, Istanbul, and in Sinai, covering a period from the 8th to 18th centuries. Nor is he the first to make such a discovery. The Dominican Jacques Goar (1601-1653) includes such ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek prayer books. (ref: Irish Times)

The Vatican has not been infallible.



Of course, SIN goes back much farther than 1601 a.d..

Remember the Garden?

That got me a bigger picture when she told me how things worked. The story goes back to Sodom and Gomorrah that those men wanted to know the angels for themselves.. if you know what that means.. to try to convert those into homosexuals.
.....................................................................................................................................................

"you all get the point that

it is the agenda or goals of GLBT to destroy people at their weakness point of their lives such as childhood,
when people are confused, and even Christians!"

The Pope is only consider infallible if/when he speaks ex cathera. The Pope has only spoken ex cathera three times in the history of the Church; all three times it dealt with Marian Doctrine.

Also, Jewish theology does not blame Adam/Eve for "Original Sin". There is a story that Adam meets all the recently dead in his cave. If anyone blames him for their sinful nature, he replies- I sinned once and was punished for it, look at all the transgressions you have committed in your own life.

Are these your personal beliefs, TBRich?

Or are you seeking clarification?

Have you given your life to Christ?

"While I generally keep my personal beliefs to myself,
I am a legally ordained minister and certified pastoral counselor.

I also tend to have an urge to play the devil's advocate- but don't blame me, the devil made me do it."

"BTW- in the Jewish faith,
Satan's role was as a Trickster, much like those in more primitive religions and not as the devil."