I Think if z is found innocent he wins, I Don't feel he has any regret about T or what happened that night and life will continue for him as usual

he may have some soul deep down that feels different than what he is portraying,, but he continues to live and his family continues to have their child....and his children to have him,,,,

but the next 'suspicious' person he runs across may not win if he gets a pass once more for his aggressive behavior

I seriously doubt that life will ever continue for Zimmerman the way that it did prior to Martin's death. Zimmerman may be acquitted of the murder charge against him, but his plans for his future may be ruined.

..time will tell

Are the ferals still offering a bounty on Big Z's death?

he was supposed to stay in his car
zimmerman was advised by an operator, not given a direct order by a superior. zimmerman is not the first person to go against good advice, but that is not illegal

as the actual EVIDENCE showed
i'm not sure i am seeing the same evidence you are

T had only a scrape on his left hand, which was not conclusively a fresh wound,,weird for a right hander dealing 'mma' punches
i thought the medical examiner said martin did not have any injuries other than to his hands and a gunshot wound. the defense made it seem that martin had no injuries to make one think he was being hurt, so the probability of martin yelling for help would be unlikely

Z had a broken nose, which can happen from a well landed punch, particularly if there has been previous damage from CONSENTUAL MMA fighting with adults
the gym owner said zimmerman came in and was very "soft" as in overweight and uncoordinated. he said zimmerman had a .5 skill level coming in (on a 1 to 10 rating) and after training, lost weight and was at a 1 skill level.(1 being very little 10 being expert). he said zimmerman could not get past learning how to punch, so he never allowed zimmerman to compete in any actual or simulated fights

Z had scrapes on the back of his head that didn't require stitches,,,, conclusive with more of someone who had had contact with the pavement, as opposed to having it SLAMMED into it repeatedly,,
zimmerman said he was attacked. he could have exaggerated the number of blows and how they were delivered, or he could simply not remember exactly, or he could have felt like it was happening a certain way. the fact is, the story of him being attacked is supported by him having injuries and martin not having any

if someone else has a gun and all you have are fists, what are you supposed to do?
i don't know what anyone is supposed to do, but i think i would not do anything even remotely considered as aggressive to the gun man so that he would not even consider discharging the weapon in my direction

neither did anything ILLEGAL, in being where they were, but one did invoke a reasonable fear by his actions of pursuing and reaching for something,,,,that doesn't lead the average citizen to the belief they are merely 'concerned'
i don't know if being followed makes most people scared or annoyed. i don't know if following someone to confront them would make someone scared or annoyed. people reach for things all the time, phones, wallets, pens, etc. i don't know if enough people have chl's to make everyone feel like anytime someone is reaching for something it is automatically going to be a loaded weapon

until you have been followed alone in the dark, perhaps it is reasonable to believe the one being pursued should just assume it is a 'concerned citizen'... especially if , after given the chance to explain theirself, they merely become more combative and REACH for something,,,
again, reaching for something, maybe if i keep saying it as much as you do it might mean something. maybe if someone is following you they have reason to confront, or maybe they want to harm. i don't know if anyone being followed can read the mind and know the intent of the person following them
,,but as I said, the cultural divide, will leave people with different interpretations of what was 'reasonable' behavior,,,,
no need to divide cultures. reasonable behavior crosses those lines. it is reasonable to want to know what a strange person is doing in your neighborhood. it is not reasonable to fist fight a stranger

looks to me like a strange man turned his car around to follow a boy alone at night and then pursued him on foot where his car would not go before the a fight ensued (' a good beating' will be another cultural interpretation of what happened) and the man, trained in mma, instead of trying to fight merely shot his gun,,,,
since we only have zimmerman's story to go on, the evidence has to point to something very different than the story offered. the police had no reason not to believe zimmerman that night and did not charge him. the protesting forced zimmerman to be charged. the media has tried him already, and people have made up their minds before the trial even started, forgetting that everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. maybe some will learn a lesson from this, maybe life will just go on for others

Finally, the jury will get to see some of the type of punk Martin was, they judge is letting the evidence of him being high at the time of the altercation to be admitted and the dad admitted that it took him while to identify the Punk Trevon as supposedly the one crying for help.

The prosecutions case is sinking faster then the Titanic here. To bad a good mans life has to be ruined over some wannabe banger punk.

REPEATED FOR EFFECT

one person had a gun and the other had fists

it is 'reasonable' for someone at threat from a gun to scream for help, even if they have yet to be 'injured' from said weapon


and this is proof of the cultural divide

:no need to divide cultures. reasonable behavior crosses those lines. it is reasonable to want to know what a strange person is doing in your neighborhood. it is not reasonable to fist fight a stranger






it is reasonable TO YOU to want to know what a strange person is doing in your neighborhood,,,,it is not REASONABLE to me to assume someone is strange and then proceed to FOLLOW Them in your car and on foot,,,


and it is REASONABLE to fight an aggressor who behaves in such a way and never offers any reason for you to believe he is a ' concerned' citizen,, beyond reaching for something while avoiding your reasonable question of why they are following you,,,

and possibly grabbing for you (you know because they are so frustrated that these 'goons' always get away and all).....


one had a gun, a profile of another person as 'strange', and the belief they should have the authority to pursue and harass that person,,without that person having any right beyond retreating and obeying,,,,


perhaps the punk and the wannabe were both suspicious of each other, but its REASONABLE to some people that the punks suspicions were proven right,,,,

and the wannabes were not,,,,

the toxicology report showed martin tested positive for thc. possibly as little as two hours before the altercation. the drug in martin's system could have been enough to alter his decision making. maybe your belief that martin was paranoid has merit after all. are you watching the trial or just making up stuff? what is reasonable should mean that other people would make the same decision

zimmerman wanted to know what martin was doing that night. reasonable people wonder what strangers are doing in their neighborhood. scared people may scream at the site of a gun wielding aggressive man, but you added that in. zimmerman's gun was concealed and holstered until way after the fight started. reasonable people don't use their fists to solve problems, they try to find more peaceful ways to handle a situation. you seem to want to add your personal belief about who was thinking and feeling what that night. remember dragnet? just the facts ma'am

yes, I am watching the trial,, the medical examiners statements that the head injuries were not consistent with anyones head being SLAMMED into pavement

the statement that the scratch on ts hand was on his left hand and was not necessarily fresh, but no wounds on his dominant right hand which would indicate a MMA STYLE beating,,,

yes, I am watching closely,,,,,the FACTS being presented from the experts....



no, it is not mere 'belief' that martin was paranoid, it is REASONABLE to me that he should have been suspicious

without using drugs, I Would be suspicious if I saw someone stop their car and watch me taking cover from the rain, then precde to follow me when I start walking, and then get out and follow me on foot,,,,

Zimmermans own words indicate his suspicion of treyvon,,,,even though treyvon was trying to AVOID Zimmerman,,,until the magic point z claims they suddenly both changed objectives,,,,

so yeah,, if Z could find Ts actions in the rain suspicious, Im sure T could find Zs suspicious too,,

and I didn't mention it was holstered,, how would I know that?

I did see the 1st COP on the scene testify that it was viewable with just a slight movement from Z though,,,,

REASONABLE people don't assume someone is a goon and other expletives because they happen to seem 'strange', reasonable people aren't pissed at the idea that some stranger who may not being doing a thing is going to 'get away'

REASONABLE people call the police and let them do their job and don't pursue others by car AND foot as if they are the police themself without ever IDENTIFYING what the problem is beyond continuing to harass the person they stalk,,,,

,,I am no less guilty of 'interjecting' personal beliefs than anyone else here

bottom line is you feel one person was REASONABLE and I believe the other one WAS,,,,

You believe it was unreasonable to fight and I believe it was unreasonable to pursue and shoot,,,,

you seem very emotional about this. bottom line is that zimmerman's story is what everyone has to go on. the rights of both person's involved should be what everyone is concerned about. did zimmerman have a right to end martin's life? are martin's rights being ignored?

bottom line is that i don't feel either person acted reasonably. either person could have defused the situation at any time. either person could have made better decisions

looking at all the bad decisions made that night we all see the end result. hindsight is twenty twenty. just remember that all that is left is one story and very little solid evidence. zimmerman took matters into his own hands and delivered his own perception of justice. martin's actions aided zimmerman's actions that night. would zimmerman have shot martin if martin had submitted and calmly waited for police to arrive? would martin have killed zimmerman if he would have been able to knock zimmerman out and take his weapon? speculation can take us in thousands of different directions. all we can do now is remember, every person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law

of course, Ive never been unaware that the jury will decide

and no one here is on the jury

but to add to your questions'

did zimmerman have a right to end martin's life? are martin's rights being ignored?


I think there will also be the consideration of


did treyvon have a right to fight that night? are treyvon's rights being ignored?

Here's a fact One man fallow's another man through the darkness of night. One man is talking on a cell phone carrying a soda and a bag of skittles the other man is armed with a gun and lurking behind the cell phone talker. Who's the aggressor ?

A perceived threat, suspicion and aggression comes in many forms.....

Skittles and a cell phone don't make you innocent.... Jim Jones packed a bible and killed over 100 people....women and children included

walking in FRONT of someone while holding skittles and a cell phone don't really make you an IMMEDIATE threat though,, like walking behind them with a gun does,

jim jones had quite a bit of time to convert people, that incident didn't happen with strangers overnight,,,

odd comparison...

Too early to tell but, if Z is found not guilty, he should sue them.

I am still wondering if Zimmerman could be found guilty of a lesser charge of manslaughter.

I agree, a tragic event that should not have happened.

If Martin fealt threatened by a man following him why didn't he call the police from his cell phone?

Since Martin isn't alive to tell his side of the story, we will never know.

don't know,,,not everyone thinks 911 will come to their rescue if its not an actual crime in commission,,,,