Topic: Zimmerman Murder case
msharmony's photo
Sun 07/14/13 08:45 AM
Edited by msharmony on Sun 07/14/13 08:48 AM

Next claim will be is the jurors are racists.laugh


I don't believe they were racists, I believe quite honestly that they didn't find enough to prove the 'deranged mind' requirement of the murder two charge,, and they weren't really SURE about the manslaughter charge

so they erred on the side of innocence,,,


probably believe poor upstanding George just made a bad choice that shouldn't be considered a criminal act


instead of believing poor teenage treyvon was stalked and made reasonable choices to try to lose the stalker before asking him why he was following him and being provoked to fight for his life before being unjustly killed with a gun

,,,jurors aren't perfect,, they get them right , they get them wrong,, and we have to live by their decision whichever way it goes,,,


no photo
Sun 07/14/13 09:10 AM


Next claim will be is the jurors are racists.laugh

I don't believe they were racists, I believe quite honestly that they didn't find enough to prove the 'deranged mind' requirement of the murder two charge,, and they weren't really SURE about the manslaughter charge
so they erred on the side of innocence,,,
probably believe poor upstanding George just made a bad choice that shouldn't be considered a criminal act
instead of believing poor teenage treyvon was stalked and made reasonable choices to try to lose the stalker before asking him why he was following him and being provoked to fight for his life before being unjustly killed with a gun
,,,jurors aren't perfect,, they get them right , they get them wrong,, and we have to live by their decision whichever way it goes,,,

how can you say the jury erred? is it because you want so hard to believe your own account of what happened that night?
the prosecutor had every opportunity to prove what you keep saying. the jury understood what was asked of them. they followed all the instructions from the judge. they all agreed that zimmerman's story holds water
it's a shame the choices zimmerman and martin made that night. either one could have done just one thing differently and the outcome could have been for both to be here on earth. they both contributed to the outcome equally but LEGALLY, zimmerman's actions were justified

msharmony's photo
Sun 07/14/13 09:17 AM
Edited by msharmony on Sun 07/14/13 09:20 AM



Next claim will be is the jurors are racists.laugh

I don't believe they were racists, I believe quite honestly that they didn't find enough to prove the 'deranged mind' requirement of the murder two charge,, and they weren't really SURE about the manslaughter charge
so they erred on the side of innocence,,,
probably believe poor upstanding George just made a bad choice that shouldn't be considered a criminal act
instead of believing poor teenage treyvon was stalked and made reasonable choices to try to lose the stalker before asking him why he was following him and being provoked to fight for his life before being unjustly killed with a gun
,,,jurors aren't perfect,, they get them right , they get them wrong,, and we have to live by their decision whichever way it goes,,,

how can you say the jury erred? is it because you want so hard to believe your own account of what happened that night?
the prosecutor had every opportunity to prove what you keep saying. the jury understood what was asked of them. they followed all the instructions from the judge. they all agreed that zimmerman's story holds water
it's a shame the choices zimmerman and martin made that night. either one could have done just one thing differently and the outcome could have been for both to be here on earth. they both contributed to the outcome equally but LEGALLY, zimmerman's actions were justified



I can say they erred the same way you can say they got it right

in other words,, we are all human, we all have our own perception of things..

there was no way to prove what happened in the moments leading to this fight, but absence of proof is not proof of absence,, there is also common sense that fills in the gaps,,,my common sense says zimmermans story is beyond reasonable or likely and therefore a lie

my common sense sees the very logical theme of a man intent on playing police and making sure the 'bleep didn't get away to the point of following and putting his hands on him (As his past mo shows he has a habit of doing),,

even his 'mma style' witness testified to the initial 'vertical tussle',, as opposed to the blindsided sucker punch that liar described,...

he didn't want this boy to 'get away',,,he went out of his way to continue following this boy even after being advised not to, he CHASED the boy while armed with a gun, he provoked the BOY into a place where he had every right to defend himself,,,,thats my common sense talking as someone who has been physically stalked and assaulted in daylight...

im sorry, but by the book, t couldn't have done anything different he did EVERYTHING you are told to do when being followed

changed direction , put distance between them , asked why he was being followed,,,it was Z whose actions are responsible for the outcome,, and Zs alone,,,,,his were the unreasonable and dangerous choices, his were the actions that lead to the REACTION/CONSEQUENCE.....

and as far as what the jury UNDERSTOOD, I wouldn't assume too much,, their choice to come back with a verdict doesn't mean they understood,,,in fact they asked about the manslaughter and were never given an answer,,,,


Conrad_73's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:30 AM
Edited by Conrad_73 on Sun 07/14/13 10:31 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/14/justice/zimmerman-race-factor/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

(CNN) -- When the verdict came, it was as dramatic as anyone could have imagined.

A late Saturday night, a courtroom of breathless people, the accused man standing, and finally the words: "We, the jury, find George Zimmerman not guilty."

Zimmerman blinked and shook hands with his legal team. His mother smiled. His wife cried. It was over.
George Zimmerman found not guilty

But outside, the reaction was just beginning. In the crowd milling near the court, some chanted, "No justice, no peace," while others spoke about the disappointment they had dreaded.



"I believe that there is a family whose heart was broken, who probably believes once again the system has failed them," he told CNN's David Mattingly.

"We've been praying for both families because we know that it has been a hard time for everybody that's been involved. But as far as justice ... personally, I think that the system failed the Martin family."

Common theme

Twitter erupted in disbelief.

Cover Drive wrote, "What kind of world do we live in where an innocent is killed, and the killer is found innocent?" Scotty tweeted, "America has given a free pass to murder Black Youth."

A Twitter user by the name Sam Is Dead echoed a common theme among those frustrated with the decision, "Casey Anthony innocent ... Zimmerman innocent ... Mike Vick guilty... Racism."

Suspected racism in the justice system, deep-seated, secretive and historic, was the crux of the case for millions.

That was what made it a national story, instead of merely a local tragedy.

They did not believe it was just about a 17-year-old named Trayvon Martin being shot on a rainy night.

They believed it was about generations of young black men targeted, stalked, suspected and brutalized by police, security guards, neighborhood watches and courts.

"It's something bigger because Trayvon Martin is all of our sons. He's the son of all people who are African-American and of those who are conscious of what it means to be black in America," said Maurice Jackson, a Georgetown University associate professor of history and African-American studies.

After the verdict, his message was somber.

"I feel for his parents," Jackson said. "This is a sad day for democracy and for justice."

A much harsher statement came around the same time from another professor who studies race at Drexel University in Philadelphia.

"This verdict was prepared from day one," George Ciccariello-Maher said. "From the media campaign of demonizing Martin, to the selection of a nonblack jury, to the instruction not to refer to race ... his was the chronicle of an acquittal foretold."

On and on the outrage went.

'Tragedy for black families'

Reaction was swift, and varied.

ColorOfChange.org, an online civil rights group, said it highlighted a deep-seated issue.


"This is another tragedy for black families. .. the verdict sends a clear message about the minimal value place on the lives of young black men and boys everywhere," the group said.
People in New York react to the news that George Zimmerman was found not guilty on Saturday, July 13. The jury acquitted Zimmerman of all charges related to the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. View photos of key moments from the trial. People in New York react to the news that George Zimmerman was found not guilty on Saturday, July 13. The jury acquitted Zimmerman of all charges related to the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. View photos of key moments from the trial.
"Justice for Trayvon" is written on the ground as people gather at Union Square in New York on July 13. "Justice for Trayvon" is written on the ground as people gather at Union Square in New York on July 13.
People attend a rally in Los Angeles following the Zimmerman verdict on July 13. People attend a rally in Los Angeles following the Zimmerman verdict on July 13.
A protester shouts in the streets of New York on July 13. A protester shouts in the streets of New York on July 13.
People gather for a demonstration in Los Angeles on July 13. People gather for a demonstration in Los Angeles on July 13.
A man in Los Angeles wears a shirt in support of Trayvon Martin on July 13. A man in Los Angeles wears a shirt in support of Trayvon Martin on July 13.
Protesters chant outside the Seminole County courthouse in Sanford, Florida, after Zimmerman was found not guilty on July 13. Protesters chant outside the Seminole County courthouse in Sanford, Florida, after Zimmerman was found not guilty on July 13.
Tanetta Foster cries in front of the courthouse on July 13 after hearing the verdict. Tanetta Foster cries in front of the courthouse on July 13 after hearing the verdict.
A Trayvon Martin supporter rallies outside the courthouse on July 13. After Martin's death, protesters started wearing hoodies in solidarity against racial profiling. A Trayvon Martin supporter rallies outside the courthouse on July 13. After Martin's death, protesters started wearing hoodies in solidarity against racial profiling.
Darrsie Jackson cries and comforts her children Linzey Stafford, left, 10, and Shauntina Stafford, 11, outside the courthouse on July 13. Darrsie Jackson cries and comforts her children Linzey Stafford, left, 10, and Shauntina Stafford, 11, outside the courthouse on July 13.
A woman addresses the media after the verdict on July 13. A woman addresses the media after the verdict on July 13.
Protesters react to the not guilty verdict on July 13. Protesters react to the not guilty verdict on July 13.
Melinda O'Neal, left, breaks into tears and hugs Shedrick Burfect outside the courthouse on July 13. Melinda O'Neal, left, breaks into tears and hugs Shedrick Burfect outside the courthouse on July 13.
A man outside the courthouse gets emotional after the verdict was announced on July 13. A man outside the courthouse gets emotional after the verdict was announced on July 13.
A woman outside the courthouse reacts to the verdict on July 13. A woman outside the courthouse reacts to the verdict on July 13.
Demonstrators and members of the media gather outside of the courthouse on July 13. The jurors deliberated for more than 16 hours before delivering their verdict. Demonstrators and members of the media gather outside of the courthouse on July 13. The jurors deliberated for more than 16 hours before delivering their verdict.

Defense: Prosecution was 'disgraceful'

Rev. Al Sharpton also weighed in.

"The acquittal of George Zimmerman is a slap in the face to the American people," he said.

Not all agree

Despite the fury and frustration on one side of the verdict, others approved the jury's decision.

"The actual case against Zimmerman was weak. Jurors should be commended for making the right call," Chicago Sun-Times columnist and author, Richard Roeper, wrote on Twitter.

Doesn't mean Zimmerman is 'innocent.'" CaptYonah tweeted, "Fact is, the evidence PROVED Zimmerman not guilty." GreeneBri wrote, "There is a reasonable doubt and I think our justice system did what it's supposed to do."

Many trial watchers, who suspected it would end this way, argued this case should never have been about race.

It would be unfair to make George Zimmerman pay for generations of racial inequalities, no matter how real or painful those troubles may be, some said.

Some suggested it was Zimmerman who was being pilloried to placate angry African-American voters and others who rallied to make the killing a cause.

Two narratives

Defense attorney Mark O'Mara, even while speaking highly of the civil rights movement, said if his client had been black, "he never would have been charged with a crime. It certainly would never have happened if he were black because those people who decided they were going to make him the scapegoat would not have."

His partner at the defense table, attorney Don West said, "I think the prosecution of George Zimmerman was disgraceful. It makes me sad ... that it took this long under these circumstances to finally get justice."

Reconciling the two wildly disparate views of this trial is not easy.

As legal analysts noted in the months leading up to the testimony, so many people made it so clear they saw the killing in substantially different ways.

To one side, Zimmerman was at worst an overzealous citizen just trying to make sure his neighborhood was safe. To the other, he was a gun-toting predator, hunting, harassing and provoking a fatal fight with an innocent teen.

To one side, Martin was little more than a child returning home after getting a snack. To the other, he was a hulking young man who could have gone inside, talked with Zimmerman or called the police, but instead decided to attack with his fists and paid with his life.

And since people on both sides seemed to have decided the case before the testimony was heard, the verdict was bound to be disturbing no matter how it tilted. Simply put, preconceived notions effectively had people watching two different trials, with every bit of testimony and evidence producing different, and often opposing, reactions in those dueling audiences.

Florida State Attorney Angela Corey, while standing with the disappointed prosecution team, seemed to tip her hat to that reality.

"I never could quite understand people, even people with law degrees, who had not read all of the police reports, who had not read all of the witness statements, yet who came up with opinions one way or the other," she said.

But that is what happened.

"A race war in America is sadly alive and well," conservative radio host Ben Ferguson says. He's frustrated with the many celebrities, sports figures, and activists expressing outrage.

"These people do not care about the facts or respect the law. They want their form of justice and, more importantly, added fame that commenting on this case can bring. These 'professionals' are race baiting to gain a more loyal following."

With the verdict, the winning side felt that justice was served. And the other? Georgetown's Jackson summed up his thoughts.

"Like Trayvon Martin's father, my heart is broken. I am sad to say that I expected this verdict," he said. "There is much to love about our country, but there are also things that happen to black people every day that make you want to put your head down and cry."

msharmony's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:37 AM
wow , an actual balanced article,,,good job CNN

hit it on the nose about the disparate perception of the facts and outcome of this case,,,



oldhippie1952's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:40 AM
I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!

msharmony's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:42 AM

I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death

mightymoe's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:46 AM


I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death


the black panthers or someone will get him within a year or so... thats my guess

oldhippie1952's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:50 AM



I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death


the black panthers or someone will get him within a year or so... thats my guess



That's just as bad.

InvictusV's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:51 AM


I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death


ask Fred Goldman how that civil judgement versus OJ worked out for him..


msharmony's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:54 AM



I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death


the black panthers or someone will get him within a year or so... thats my guess


I really don't wish death on him at all, I think he is stupid, arrogant, cowardly,, and dangerous,, but I just want to see him eventually stopped from harming someone else,, without it requiring his own life to do so,,,,

InvictusV's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:56 AM



I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death


the black panthers or someone will get him within a year or so... thats my guess


there are elections coming up next year. the black panthers have to get ready to stand in front of polling places with their clubs..

lmao

bastet126's photo
Sun 07/14/13 10:57 AM

I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!


i agree hippie. zimmerman created the situation. sad day.
but i do believe, while the jury could not hand down a guilty
verdict under the legal definition, this is not the same as finding
him innocent. i imagine when the jurors finally speak, this will
be a strong under tone.

i hope zimmerman lives a long pitiful life being constantly
reminded about what he did. karma.

Milesoftheusa's photo
Sun 07/14/13 11:00 AM


I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death


Kind of like OJ?

msharmony's photo
Sun 07/14/13 11:02 AM



I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death


ask Fred Goldman how that civil judgement versus OJ worked out for him..





half a mill,, plus proceeds from their faux confession book 'if I did it',,,,


seems like it wasn't a total bust,,,,

msharmony's photo
Sun 07/14/13 11:04 AM



I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death


Kind of like OJ?



exactly, and I still don't believe he did THAT crime, but his karma has caught up with him for any number of other things he has done,,,

I believe that,,,

and I believe this man who continually has harassed and put his hand on others,, will have a meeting with karma too,,,,

Milesoftheusa's photo
Sun 07/14/13 11:08 AM
Edited by Milesoftheusa on Sun 07/14/13 11:10 AM


I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!


i agree hippie. zimmerman created the situation. sad day.
but i do believe, while the jury could not hand down a guilty
verdict under the legal definition, this is not the same as finding
him innocent. i imagine when the jurors finally speak, this will
be a strong under tone.

i hope zimmerman lives a long pitiful life being constantly
reminded about what he did. karma.



So we have to prove ourselves innocent? So everyone who is arrested is guilty until they prove themselves innocent?

Isn't that what Racial Profiling is saying? You may be guilty your not innocent?

Which is it?

no photo
Sun 07/14/13 11:10 AM



I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!



lol

yeah, but what we say don't matter if we aren't the jurors


but, there is still a civil case to be filed, ,, karma works things out,,,,one way or another, he isn't going to escape accountability for that boys death


the black panthers or someone will get him within a year or so... thats my guess


Is that a guess or are you saying there is a conspiracy?

msharmony's photo
Sun 07/14/13 11:17 AM
Edited by msharmony on Sun 07/14/13 11:19 AM



I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!


i agree hippie. zimmerman created the situation. sad day.
but i do believe, while the jury could not hand down a guilty
verdict under the legal definition, this is not the same as finding
him innocent. i imagine when the jurors finally speak, this will
be a strong under tone.

i hope zimmerman lives a long pitiful life being constantly
reminded about what he did. karma.



So we have to prove ourselves innocent? So everyone who is arrested is guilty until they prove themselves innocent?

Isn't that what Racial Profiling is saying? You may be guilty your not innocent?

Which is it?



seriously,, where do people get these paraphrasing conclusions?


I think what was stated was not proving someone GUILTY is not the same as proving they are innocent.....

the law doesn't require proof of innocence, it requires to have NO QUESTION about guilt,,,


legaly 'guilty' doesn't mean one has actually done something anymore than legally 'not guilty' means they didn't

it just refers to the burden of 'proof' that was met in the case,,,which is more often the value of the evidence and status/credentials of the witnesses,,,,

bastet126's photo
Sun 07/14/13 11:19 AM
Edited by bastet126 on Sun 07/14/13 11:20 AM




I'm still in shock over the verdict.

I think he was guilty because:

He disobeyed civil authorities who told him to stay in his car twice, and to not follow the suspect.

If he would have obeyed, things would be different. So he caused it to me.

Besides, I said so!


i agree hippie. zimmerman created the situation. sad day.
but i do believe, while the jury could not hand down a guilty
verdict under the legal definition, this is not the same as finding
him innocent. i imagine when the jurors finally speak, this will
be a strong under tone.

i hope zimmerman lives a long pitiful life being constantly
reminded about what he did. karma.



So we have to prove ourselves innocent? So everyone who is arrested is guilty until they prove themselves innocent?

Isn't that what Racial Profiling is saying? You may be guilty your not innocent?

Which is it?



seriously,, where do people get these paraphrasing conclusions?


I think what was stated was not proving someone GUILTY is not the same as proving they are innocent.....

the law doesn't require proof of innocence, it requires to have NO QUESTION about guilt,,,





this ^^

miles...no need to blow my comment out of proportion, this comment
is on topic with the post. he is far from innocent in the matter.