California is a ridiculous communist state!

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http://www.christianpost.com/news/freedom-of-religion-calif-couple-fined-for-hosting-bible-study-in-home-56008/


A California couple has been fined by the city of San Juan Capistrano for holding Bible studies and religious gatherings in their home, which has some wondering about the future of religious freedom in America.

Chuck and Stephanie Fromm, residents of San Juan Capistrano, home to the oldest church in California, were fined $300 for the religious activities, which the city said violated a municipal code that prohibits "religious, fraternal or non-profit" organizations in residential neighborhoods without a conditional-use permit," the Capistrano Dispatch reported.

Chuck Fromm is publisher of Worship Leader Magazine, a Christian music resource that combines biblical wisdom and best practices for worship, and provides added educational and congregational resources through its associated educational services, according to its website. However, the Fromms insist that their weekly meetings are not affiliated with a church, nor are they seeking to establish a church.

"How dare they tell us we can't have whatever we want in our home," Stephanie Fromm said. "We want to be able to use our home. We’ve paid a lot and invested a lot in our home and backyard … I should be able to be hospitable in my home."

The municipal code is "reactive," which means it is only enforced if someone complains.

Fromm admitted that at least one person had voiced concern about the activities.

"Can you imagine anybody in any neighborhood, that one person can call and make it a living hell for someone else?" Mrs. Fromm said. "That’s wrong … and it's just sad."

According to the Pacific Justice Institute, a non-profit legal group that is working on behalf of the Fromms, there was no noise beyond normal conversation and quiet music on the home stereo system. The group members met inside the family room and patio area of the 4,700-square-foot home.

"Imposing a heavy-handed permit requirement on a home Bible study is outrageous," said Brad Dacus, president of Pacific Justice Institute, in a statement.

"In a city so rich with religious history and tradition, this is particularly egregious. An informal gathering in a home cannot be treated with suspicion by the government, or worse than any other gathering of friends, just because it is religious. We cannot allow this to happen in America, and we will fight as long and as hard as it takes to restore this group’s religious freedom."

San Juan Capistrano city officials could not be reached for comment.

busy body neighbors, Ive had them too

HOAs are the worst , especially with fines

,,, price paid for feeling 'safer' I guess,,,

This is from 4/2012

They were warned and refused to obey the laws of their community.

"Chuck and Stephanie Fromm received a $100 fine initially when neighbors complained that the Bible gatherings at their home were too big, gathering close to 50 people. But the Fromms refused to pay the fine or heed the warnings. After a second big meeting, they were fined another $200"

Didn't Jesus say "render unto Caesar the things which are Ceasar's"?

Not fight against the government, especially when you have churches on almost every corner, God on our money, and Christian propaganda in our department stores, government holidays, and every walk of life.

Hardly a persecution going on!

Grandstanding Christianity doesn't reach anyone for Jesus. It repels any would be follower.


If you live in a community, which is a privilege, not a right. You must abide by their guidelines. (ie:HOA,etc.)

50 people, on a regular basis, is excessive


and HOAS are still pains, whether we must abide by them or not

some of what they request us to abide by is quite ridiculous, imho

The story of Jesus saying "render unto Caesar the things which are Ceasar's" is not only ambiguous it was an evasive ambiguous answer to a trick question. Using this verse out of context from the story is meaningless and deceptive. I've seen it used out of context before by people trying to defend and justify paying taxes. In Biblical Rome, the tax collector was one of the most hated unpopular people. Jesus was a rebel and this remark by him was an effort to stay out of trouble.

Concerning the neighborhood, unless the cars were parked all over the place causing a nuisance, I see no reason for anyone to complain, but if they complained because of the traffic jam, then it makes no sense to accuse anyone of the religious angle of it.

What they were doing inside the house probably was not even an issue and the people are just using religion to whine about having to pay the fine.

Still it gripes me that people have to get a permit to do something in their own home.

sounds like we need more information.. cars on both side of the street.. yea I could see where the city may get involved.. Yet I know a famous senator that used to when he came home host parties with hundreds of people u had to wait as only one car could go through at a time and many times u had to back up to let the other car through..loud music and the cops.. they would not even think about saying anything yet their were many complaints. depends on your status in this country what u can do and can not

I think 50 people in a house may mean excessive vehicles and possibly noise(coming and going),, and I do see the relevance in requiring a certain consideration of ones neighbors in that regard


I don't think the fine was specifically religious, re reading the charge

" "religious, fraternal or non-profit" organizations in residential neighborhoods without a conditional-use permit," the Capistrano Dispatch reported."


id required a 'conditional use' permit, which I don't think is excessive IF it is an event that infringes upon the neighbors with congested parking and/or the noise of peoples coming and going,,,

not knowing his status, but working in roadside assistance, I know all roads are not created equal

some are considered private roads, even though there is some limited public access, those are not roads that are governed and they are given more, much more, freedom from regulations or laws

we are in a hoa environment with such roads, and they have a ridiculous rule about parking on the street (even in front of ones own home) with ridiculous fines,,,

of course, some public streets are the same, I have lived on some that only limited parking during certain hours, and some that didn't limit parking at all,,

What a true statement the above-quote is.

In the aforementioned case in San Juan Capistrano, the homeowners involved show zeal but not tact, diplomacy or courtesy.

Mission San Juan Capistrano, 26801 Ortega Hwy, San Juan Capistrano, CA 92675 (949) 234-1300

Funny,when you think that the City started as a Catholic Mission!