anoasis,

Just as if someone said "The Eagle", you would know they were speaking of the US or if they said "The Bear" you would know they were speaking of Russia, "The Fig Tree" is Israel. It's a symbol that has been used to represent the nation of Israel throughout history. Jesus explained that if the Fig Tree doesn't produce fruit, it should wither and die, which happened in 70AD. Now the fig tree is growing again.

Differentkindofwench,

Most commonly, a generation is considered to be 40 years, but it's sometimes considered to be 51, 70 or 100 years. The import thing to note is that the Fig Tree has blossomed. They are reaching a point, or have already reached the point where the majority of people in Israel were born there.

Picking at straws Belushi!!!

I guess next you will say the Great Crusades weren't based on Religion, or that the church of England was not based on the King wanting Religion to conform to his wishes!

1890 was the date the Jews place on Zionism. I stand by the fact that it took place in a land the British Empire claimed as theirs, and did not pick up steam until after WWII.

In 1930 the population of Jews in Palestine was approximately 7%. By the time they declared Independence in 1948, there were still only 30%.

They declared Independence ahead of the UN mandate to give them 70% of Palestine as the Nation of Israel. They were too greedy to accept that little and the US and Britain never tried to stop them.

Ever since we support them militarily, financially, and the Christian support them morally. We still have not tried to stop them. If that isn't about religion then I dont know what is.


From http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Birnbaum.html

Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained. The term "Zionism" was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.



Nathan Birnbaum was first to coin the term Zionist, and was followed shortly after by Herzl who had similar ideas. Nathan Birnbaum was first however.

Fanta, your arguments make no sense at all.

I stated where the term came from, and how it isnt related to religion at all ..

How is that "picking at straws"?

But to be honest your "dog with a stick" method of debate is not enjoyable ... so,

Yes Glen, what ever you say!

G-d promised to Abraham i will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. He was not only referring to Abraham as a man but also to his seed as a nation. it is very foolish to stand against the chosen people and their homeland.

ISRAEL SHALL NEVER STAND DIVIDED!

shaloam
<-------Zionist and messianic jew.

It wasn't an argument it was fact. The term comes from Nathan Birnbaum in 1890 and it was based on a religious movement to reestablish Israel back to Palestine. It was made possible through western involvement, particularly the occupation of Palestine by the British!

Read the link!!!!

The claim that The creation of Israel not being based on religion or the Bible are the straws I was referring to.

Another fact, It could not and would not have been possible without the permission and influence of western governments! (ie, Christian)

Thanks Belushi and Spider.

actually the idea that Jews might return to Israel and the fact that under intense anti-Semitic pressure that they did return to Israel is entirely based on religious and biblical concepts.

no big deal. they did it themselves. beat off their attackers. declared independence themselves. was not a construct of anyone else really. sure, the US supported them along with much of the rest of the world at the time after WWII. they probably need more support than ever now that Iran is expressing the desire to wipe them off the map and the UN is hosting anti-Semitic conferences.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1188392567128&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

that is very true slow.

Yes, I can agree with that slow, but when they started lobeing nukes around over there, every Christian in the world will proclaim it as the fullfillment of bible prophecy, and the beneficary will be the church!

It makes me wonder about things. Like is this a man-made problem (seems more likely to me) or prophecy being carried out!

Will it bring the end of the world? I doubt it. Will it bring an end to Israel? Probably!

Is it worth it! Not to me, but I'll guarantee Americans will die in the process!

good gawd they better not be lobbing nukes around anywhere...most especially not over there where the worlds energy reserves are located along with much of western political, legal, intellectual and religious history...

prophecy? not in my view. god doesn't push the button. people push the button. end Israel? maybe...but not likely as long as they maintain vigilance and have powerful allies.

is it worth it? senseless killing and certainly nuclear war is never worth it...doesn't matter if Americans die or Ethiopians or Afganis. it's all bad.

i'm not that cynical about the Christians either. don't think most of them view this as prophetic fulfillment either....oh sure a few may view it that way. but not anywhere near most. imo...

Thanks Spider, I did not know that Israel was represented by a fig tree.

Fanta-

Re: "makes me wonder about things. Like is this a man-made problem (seems more likely to me) or prophecy being carried out"

Prophecy is just fortelling... so why would man not be the vehicle for the fullfillment of such a prophecy?

I think to come to that conclussion, one would have to assume a lot anoasis.

Jesus made a new covenant with all men. To me from that point on when he refers to Israel he refers to the world, and voids the Jews superior assumptions of being Gods chosen people.

It says that when he comes to rule again that his reign will be in Jerusalem. Scince in Gods mind there is only man and the world, I take that as being a world without Borders (one kingdom).

If looked at from that perspective then when he refers to Israel and the chosen people, would he not mean the world and all men, rather than a little peace of sand in the Middle East?



Heaterrae, Israeli Jews are divided into two groups: the overwhelming majority who are secular and a small minority who are religious.

80 percent of Israelis fall into the secular camp and were being religiously coerced in one way or another by the Orthodox 20 percent.

Israel is a religous contradiction and are already divided!!!

Who are the false Jews of Revelation 2: 9 in the bible. I heard that it is the Zionist, Khazar Jews.