So, ok, so I've been thinking about solar panel kits lately. I have a modest house, and I have modest energy needs, even in the summertime. I plan to live in it until my retirement, when I'll be moving to better climes.

I did some back of the envelope figuring and it looks like it might pay for itself in about 10 years. That is, assuming the cost of energy stays relatively flat... fat chance lol. If it rises significantly, then the payoff comes sooner.

Anyhoo. Any of you have had solar power installed? Or know people who have? Or have an opinion?

I am big on electric stuff actually, have been long before even electric cars were considered fashionable. In a few years I actually intend to convert my car to electric.

and I wouldn't consider Solarcells exactly Green either,considering the Pollution they cause in China!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030802595.html?referrer=emailarticle

so,Solar Heating might be a cleaner alternative!

I had solar panels on my house (roof) of 3200 square feet.
It was a new house and I did not think much about that when
I purchased it.

It came down from the roof, entered a gas hot water heater,
then into another gas hot water heater.

The bill never once reached $1 a month!
Was totally freaky, to be able to see that in print.

Something about dual water heaters kept the gas heater from
doing anything other than just clicking on and off.

I was always amazed, would recommend it any time :-)

Oh, solar heating, I haven't actually thought about that one, great idea!
Thank you Conrad and Soufie!

Yes, I know China is not exactly the leader in environmental stewardship, but there are ways to make fairly "clean" solar panels as well. And my plan is to have my retirement home be completely off the grid, so coal fired electric plants aren't in the picture.

Yup, been keeping up with the stuff myself. Trouble is, not many commercially available kits out there, most use the same panels.

My retirement home will definitely have better solar panels though!

I am just giving a sugestion. I do not know what you already know.
But you have different types of solar cells. The darker the cells are
better but more expensive.

http://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/monocrystalline-vs-polycrystalline-solar-panels-busting-myths/

But the material is also getting thinner now. And you have foldable ones. That are equally as good as the solid panels. If not better..

China as you say is very cheap now. But it is a big investment. So i would go for panels that have some sort of waranty.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I'm looking at complete kits right now, like this one:
https://www.anapode.com/products/2000w_2kw_Complete_Solar_Panel_Module_Kit_DIY

The price after rebate is actually not that bad. And they do offer a 25yr warranty with the kit, although maybe I need to read the fine print on that. Also, they don't mention the panel manufacturer, so I'd assume it's probably Chinese.

It looks pretty decent. But that is just from my quick glance..
Also i am not a resident in the USA. But i saw that you need permits
for this as well. So maybe you should keep that in mind as well.
But maybe you already knew.

Also if you want more info. Then this might be the place for you.

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?12204-Anapode-solar-kits

My RV and cabin are both off the grid for almost 10 years now. The RV is PV only, and the cabin is a hybrid of PV and Wind. Make sure you don't go cheap on the charge controller, I only recommend Outback. It can handle most anything you can throw at it.

When sizing, use your highest months power bill, and get your average daily consumption and use that figure to calculate your overall needs.

As far as storage, that's where it get's pricey. Grid-tie, not so much.

Though 12V is easy and recommended for small systems like my RV. Go 48V and use quality inverters, it will store much more energy and require less copper for the connection lines.

My house is solar assisted, in that I have a back up system with PV panels that runs several emergency systems and an inverter, and solar "radiators" that are for pre-heating water. I use a tankless, which is even faster with the assist.

IF you have sensitive electronics, make sure the inverter is "pure sine wave" or things will act very funky.

You will need to do a bit of lifestyle changes, like when you use stuff like the dishwasher, vacuum or laundry. I also recommend converting all your light sources to high output LED fixtures. They consume 1/10th the energy of CFL and when you're living on battery power that is significant. LED TV's are great too, look at total wattage, not screen size. The biggest draw now on my OTG systems are the satellite receivers, as they use a phantom voltage to power the low noise block on the tip of the arm of the dish. Also, if you're going completely off-grid, look at RV refrigerators, they use multipower, like propane, 12-48v DC, and 110v AC.

For ultimate back up, I have a propane generator, that can recharge my battery bank and run the system at the same time. It helps for 4-7 days of no sun (and no wind). Propane is better than gas in this instance, since the fuel can be stored for long periods of time without it going bad.

All of that ^^^ does not pertain as much to grid-tie systems. Make sure you have a quality inverter to handle the loads, and the transfer switching system. (In case of a regional power failure, the transfer switch will disconnect you from the grid, so you don't fry the service guy.)

I am not a big fan of trying to go totally photo voltaic, it is great for assisting alternative solar systems. Evaporation tubes for hot water, and sub-floor radiant heat will give you a much bigger bang for the buck. Skylights and lighting tubes are now available with both luminescent and thermal controls. Passive AC systems can pay for themselves in under 5 years. Add a thermostat controlled fan in a cupola and casement widows with wind sensitivity, thermal controlled tinting on storm windows, and subterranean fresh air vents, then you can pick up the other $30 a month in PV panels.

I've looked into this a few years ago and found that, in this area where there is a lot of construction, there are also quite a few used panels available. The PVs lose a typical 20% efficiency with age but sell for as little as 10 cents on the dollar. You have to really understand the system to integrate and match components though. If you are interested, check with roofers. They are often asked to junk the stuff on the roof when a new owner buys a home with PVs and interested in the equipment.

Interesting stuff, thanks all. I'll still be grid tied, so there won't be any storage (selling excess power back to the company, and buying back in the off hours). I do need a permit and just a bit of paperwork with the electric company to set up a different meter, but not too bad. My biggest concern is not falling off the roof lol.

My retirement house will be totally off the grid though. Hopefully in 12 years or so technology will get cheaper and better, especially batteries. That's where a significant cost comes in right now. We'll see.

MetalWing, good point on finding used panels. My only concern would be knowing the actual age, and not having some sort of warranty. I'll keep that in mind though.

I'll also keep researching solar heating options, although those seem a bit more involved than electric panels. It's a pretty old house, already lots of snarly looking plumbing that might have to get cleaned up if I add anything water heating wise.

Conrad_73
Sadly your cartoon about the Tesla's "remote chimney" is complete garbage.

I have a Nissan Leaf. In the summer it averages 5 miles per KWH.

It takes around 6.5KWH to simply expend the energy to mine the oil, process and crack the oil into one gallon of fuel then sell it.

This is using OUR electrical grid. mind you.

The middleman is moot. In sticking with engined cars is keeping the people with inferior, more expensive to maintain and awkward to use machinery.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And for payback on Solar.
#1 are the vacuum tube hot water panels - if you have a good well insulated hot water tank. I bought mine locally and cheap. The payback was around 2 years.

Here in the UK it is mainly cool. After noting my mums Conservatory is a lovely warm place when the Sun shines.. Get a good conservatory!
I have made a couple Solar space heating panels that are attached to my SE wall for those mornings when the Sun shines and is time to heat the house.

Stan_147 is right on.
Whatever your Solar kit you get, overspec on the invertor. these are the weak link. People buy say, a 4KW invertor on a 4KW system and wonder why it popped. Always overengineer ;)

Thanks very much Andy, good points.

Going to a "renewable energy system" is a scary subject for those who are entertaining the idea. A lot of info out now, some good, some contains disinformation. I am finishing my schooling this fall in Environmental Technology. The very first thing that needs to be done before purchasing solar or renewable wind energy systems is to get your house as efficient as possible. Look into a Home Energy Audit to find out where the weaknesses in the efficiency of your home are. You might discover you don't need to invest in renewable energy systems unless it is something you want to do regardless. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for renewable energy it's my passion, but it needs to be approached in a manor that will be most cost effective. If you put a solar system on a home with poor energy efficiency, you won't have a good opinion for renewable energy systems because the home will continue to waste the electricity no matter what.