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Topic: Catholics at it again....
mightymoe's photo
Thu 05/14/15 10:45 AM
Edited by mightymoe on Thu 05/14/15 10:48 AM
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/montana-catholic-school-fires-unmarried-pregnant-teacher-and-says-she-has-no-right-to-sue/

Attorneys for a Catholic school in Montana claimed this week that a woman who was fired for being unmarried and pregnant has no right to sue for discrimination, the Associated Press reported.

Former Butte Central teacher Shaela Evenson got pregnant through in vitro fertilization. Her bosses found out in January of 2014, when an anonymous letter arrived for then superintendent of schools for the diocese, Patrick Haggarty, alleging that Evenson "was pregnant and not married." On January 12, Evenson received an official termination letter from Butte Central, stating that Evenson was out of compliance with her employment contract.

Evenson sued the school and the Roman Catholic Diocese of Helena for pregnancy discrimination, sex discrimination and breach of contract in 2014.

Attorneys for the school admitted that Evenson was terminated because of her pregnancy, but said she was not protected by federal law prohibiting discrimination because she was a religious employee. "She is a ministerial employee and as such her employment is exempt from Title VII," they wrote.

By getting pregnant outside the confines of heterosexual marriage, attorneys for the school claim the Catholic teacher was in violation the Catholic school teacher was in violation of her "employment agreement, which required abiding by the moral and religious teaching of the Roman Catholic Church and prohibiting personal conduct or lifestyles at variance with, or contrary to, those teachings."

"Pregnancy outside of wedlock is at variance with the teachings of the Catholic Church," the lawsuit adds, for clarification.

Discussing Evenson's firing in 2014 with the Montana Standard, Haggarty explains to reporters: "It's not easy being a Christian or a Catholic in today's world. Our faith asks us to do things that right now are not popular with society. I'm really OK, I'm not comfortable, but I'm OK with what's transpired. Being a Christian is this way; we're asked to do things that are not popular with our society."

"The Catholic moral teaching is that the sacrament of marriage is a holy union between a man and a woman," Haggarty continues. "And we certainly believe and we teach our children who attend our schools about the sacrament of marriage. That's as old as our church. Not only do we teach that to the children kindergarten through 12th grade, but we're held to that standard as well."

A spokesperson for the diocese told Montana Standard reporters that "the diocese doesn't investigate the personal lives of its employees but was forced to fire Evenson when the pregnancy became known."

Evenson's lawyers have pointed out that Butte Central Catholic Schools "does not investigate male employees and non-pregnant female employees for compliance with Catholic Church teachings, and its only means to determine compliance is 'observation of pregnancy in unmarried women.'"


it really is better to teach kids it's a good thing to kick an unmarried, pregnant lady to the curb in a time of need...way to go church...:angry:

msharmony's photo
Thu 05/14/15 11:47 AM
read what you sign before you agree to employment...



mightymoe's photo
Thu 05/14/15 11:53 AM

read what you sign before you agree to employment...





agreed, 100%... my main point was that that "higher ups" in the catholic churh says they don't want that kind of message being sent out to kids, but what about the message to help people in their time of need? is that what the church is reduced to now? there is no way i would ever be part of that ridiculous hypocrisy...

mikeybgood1's photo
Thu 05/14/15 12:09 PM
So apparently your word means nothing anymore? I should be allowed to lie to my employer and keep my job?

If she wanted to make a statement as a 'single mom' and simply wanted a child, she could have either written the schoolboard asking for dispensation, OR maybe adopted a kid from a church run orphanage.

IF the school denies her the ability to have a child as a single mom, THEN she could have tried to sue, and maybe could have won some out of court settlement. Having a kid however is not an inalienable right. Instead she chose the 'ask for forgiveness instead of permission' route.

Sorry, I side with the church ONLY because it was a workplace rule that is a CONDITION of her employment. Same as someone who works for the police department not hanging with dope dealers, and criminals. Also as a woman who supposedly practices the Catholic faith, she can't claim that she didn't know it was wrong to do this.

People can be fired for crap they post on the net, so why can't they be fired for breaching the terms of their employment? They also haven't turned their back on her, as there is no expressed need at this point. She will likely be able to work elsewhere, and if she needs services down the road such as a food bank or parenting assistance, the church can provide those. It would likely be an uncomfortable conversation, but they haven't actually excommunicated her from the church.

uche9aa's photo
Thu 05/14/15 12:16 PM
Attention seeking lady. Didnt she read the conditions of service before accepting the offer? Hypocrites everywhere!!

mightymoe's photo
Thu 05/14/15 12:19 PM

So apparently your word means nothing anymore? I should be allowed to lie to my employer and keep my job?

If she wanted to make a statement as a 'single mom' and simply wanted a child, she could have either written the schoolboard asking for dispensation, OR maybe adopted a kid from a church run orphanage.

IF the school denies her the ability to have a child as a single mom, THEN she could have tried to sue, and maybe could have won some out of court settlement. Having a kid however is not an inalienable right. Instead she chose the 'ask for forgiveness instead of permission' route.

Sorry, I side with the church ONLY because it was a workplace rule that is a CONDITION of her employment. Same as someone who works for the police department not hanging with dope dealers, and criminals. Also as a woman who supposedly practices the Catholic faith, she can't claim that she didn't know it was wrong to do this.

People can be fired for crap they post on the net, so why can't they be fired for breaching the terms of their employment? They also haven't turned their back on her, as there is no expressed need at this point. She will likely be able to work elsewhere, and if she needs services down the road such as a food bank or parenting assistance, the church can provide those. It would likely be an uncomfortable conversation, but they haven't actually excommunicated her from the church.

like i said, it's not about a legal standpoint, it's about the hypocrisy of the catholic church and the lies they tell...

the "good of the kids" seems to be sending a bad message either way...

do you think the message the church is sending is a good one for the kids?

mikeybgood1's photo
Thu 05/14/15 12:53 PM
If the lesson is actions have consequences, then yes it's a good one. THEY are ALSO illustrating that THEY have a moral code, that THEY believe people should ascribe to. You can of course throw child molesting clergy in their face as a counterpoint.

I'm a 50 something guy who was raised like many my age to follow the rules, and to bear the consequences for your behaviour when it fell out of bounds. I also coached kids for almost 20 years in baseball, football, softball and hockey. I was appalled at the lack of respect some kids and some parents had for the rules and the organizations behind them.

I've see a couple generations of pussified kids and their parents who believe f*cking up should have no consequences. Like kids who joined a soccer league because they don't keep score. Ok, I understand the less competition thing, no problem. THEY however don't play with any soccer balls! If you THINK you scored a goal, then you did!

These people then grow up with a sense of entitlement, no sense of competition, and do not think they are subject to censure. When they get fired for lack of performance, they can't handle it. They freak out, breakdown, and have a tantrum. I've seen 20 somethings threaten to come back to the office with a gun, that their parents will hire a lawyer, and how we're gonna be in trouble! (Seriously Snowflake?)

mightymoe's photo
Thu 05/14/15 12:58 PM

If the lesson is actions have consequences, then yes it's a good one. THEY are ALSO illustrating that THEY have a moral code, that THEY believe people should ascribe to. You can of course throw child molesting clergy in their face as a counterpoint.

I'm a 50 something guy who was raised like many my age to follow the rules, and to bear the consequences for your behaviour when it fell out of bounds. I also coached kids for almost 20 years in baseball, football, softball and hockey. I was appalled at the lack of respect some kids and some parents had for the rules and the organizations behind them.

I've see a couple generations of pussified kids and their parents who believe f*cking up should have no consequences. Like kids who joined a soccer league because they don't keep score. Ok, I understand the less competition thing, no problem. THEY however don't play with any soccer balls! If you THINK you scored a goal, then you did!

These people then grow up with a sense of entitlement, no sense of competition, and do not think they are subject to censure. When they get fired for lack of performance, they can't handle it. They freak out, breakdown, and have a tantrum. I've seen 20 somethings threaten to come back to the office with a gun, that their parents will hire a lawyer, and how we're gonna be in trouble! (Seriously Snowflake?)


ok, i see your fine with firing an unwed pregnant lady... good luck with that...


the CHURCH should be the LAST to do this, but sense you seem so hung up on laws and church hypocrisy you don't see the evil here... maybe these kids will grow up with some compassion, but i doubt it the way the stupid church does things...

no photo
Thu 05/14/15 01:08 PM
Edited by JOHNN111 on Thu 05/14/15 01:15 PM
I'd LOVE to read the contract, I hope it includes all the church hypocrisies in print. Including this one.

-Thou shall NEVER EVER use condoms...

How far does this "contract" go?


ohwell


EDIT*

I'd also like to understand how the church can enforce (on paper) certain things that could potentially infringe on someones civil liberties and freedoms, legally speaking.

mightymoe's photo
Thu 05/14/15 01:20 PM

I'd LOVE to read the contract, I hope it includes all the church hypocrisies in print. Including this one.

-Thou shall NEVER EVER use condoms...

How far does this "contract" go?


ohwell


and showing the kids it's ok to just fire a needy person because they don't follow all the Dogma the church shoves down their learning throats...

no photo
Thu 05/14/15 01:24 PM


I'd LOVE to read the contract, I hope it includes all the church hypocrisies in print. Including this one.

-Thou shall NEVER EVER use condoms...

How far does this "contract" go?


ohwell


and showing the kids it's ok to just fire a needy person because they don't follow all the Dogma the church shoves down their learning throats...


This may just fear the kids into compliance? Like any good religion should

mightymoe's photo
Thu 05/14/15 01:30 PM



I'd LOVE to read the contract, I hope it includes all the church hypocrisies in print. Including this one.

-Thou shall NEVER EVER use condoms...

How far does this "contract" go?


ohwell


and showing the kids it's ok to just fire a needy person because they don't follow all the Dogma the church shoves down their learning throats...


This may just fear the kids into compliance? Like any good religion should


lol... it seems to be teaching them no compassion, do as i say, and the church doesn't care about their own... i hope this lady becomes an atheist now because of the churches a-holeishness...

no photo
Thu 05/14/15 01:57 PM
I am sure the contract had many clauses in it that most would object to and not sign. But she did sign it and then knowingly breached that contract. Knowing full well that she could / would loose her job.

personally, I don't think anyone or and entity has a right to tell someone they can't get pregnant outside of marriage or traditional ways.

But a contract is a contract. You negotiate it , agree to it, or don't agree to it. Your choice

But if you sign, that then becomes a legal agreement between 2 entities.






mightymoe's photo
Thu 05/14/15 02:06 PM

I am sure the contract had many clauses in it that most would object to and not sign. But she did sign it and then knowingly breached that contract. Knowing full well that she could / would loose her job.

personally, I don't think anyone or and entity has a right to tell someone they can't get pregnant outside of marriage or traditional ways.

But a contract is a contract. You negotiate it , agree to it, or don't agree to it. Your choice

But if you sign, that then becomes a legal agreement between 2 entities.








still, the moral implications is not what churches are for...just makes me not like the catholic religion even moreso...

no photo
Thu 05/14/15 02:24 PM


I am sure the contract had many clauses in it that most would object to and not sign. But she did sign it and then knowingly breached that contract. Knowing full well that she could / would loose her job.

personally, I don't think anyone or and entity has a right to tell someone they can't get pregnant outside of marriage or traditional ways.

But a contract is a contract. You negotiate it , agree to it, or don't agree to it. Your choice

But if you sign, that then becomes a legal agreement between 2 entities.










still, the moral implications is not what churches are for...just makes me not like the catholic religion even moreso...


I know. I was born and raised Catholic. And to tell you the truth I still have no idea what the hell the priest was taking about during mass. I don't believe in the man made rules as well.

At confession, it really didn't matter what " wrongs" I did that week, the sentence was always the same. 3 Hail Mary's and 2 Our Fathers... and lite a candle.

I believe that if you are a good person at heart. That's is enough for any God. JMO.

mightymoe's photo
Thu 05/14/15 02:31 PM



I am sure the contract had many clauses in it that most would object to and not sign. But she did sign it and then knowingly breached that contract. Knowing full well that she could / would loose her job.

personally, I don't think anyone or and entity has a right to tell someone they can't get pregnant outside of marriage or traditional ways.

But a contract is a contract. You negotiate it , agree to it, or don't agree to it. Your choice

But if you sign, that then becomes a legal agreement between 2 entities.










still, the moral implications is not what churches are for...just makes me not like the catholic religion even moreso...


I know. I was born and raised Catholic. And to tell you the truth I still have no idea what the hell the priest was taking about during mass. I don't believe in the man made rules as well.

At confession, it really didn't matter what " wrongs" I did that week, the sentence was always the same. 3 Hail Mary's and 2 Our Fathers... and lite a candle.

I believe that if you are a good person at heart. That's is enough for any God. JMO.


i never trusted that confessional crud, seems like just a way for priests to collect information...

Rock's photo
Thu 05/14/15 02:45 PM
Religious beliefs, can be a peculiar thang.

Wasn't all that long ago, that a stewardess,
acting under the guise of the 'white anglo saxon
protestant' mentality, threw a woman off a southworst
airlines plane, for being "too scantily clad".


no photo
Thu 05/14/15 02:46 PM




I am sure the contract had many clauses in it that most would object to and not sign. But she did sign it and then knowingly breached that contract. Knowing full well that she could / would loose her job.

personally, I don't think anyone or and entity has a right to tell someone they can't get pregnant outside of marriage or traditional ways.

But a contract is a contract. You negotiate it , agree to it, or don't agree to it. Your choice

But if you sign, that then becomes a legal agreement between 2 entities.










still, the moral implications is not what churches are for...just makes me not like the catholic religion even moreso...


I know. I was born and raised Catholic. And to tell you the truth I still have no idea what the hell the priest was taking about during mass. I don't believe in the man made rules as well.

At confession, it really didn't matter what " wrongs" I did that week, the sentence was always the same. 3 Hail Mary's and 2 Our Fathers... and lite a candle.

I believe that if you are a good person at heart. That's is enough for any God. JMO.


i never trusted that confessional crud, seems like just a way for priests to collect information...


For all I, my priest could have been reading the sports page on the other side of that pinkish mesh divider.. I never saw him and he never said much.. other then the weekly " sentence"

no photo
Thu 05/14/15 02:55 PM
Wow.. Why do people complicate everything? spock

1- She took the job, knowing the conditions. If she did not (which no one will believe), Oh well... too bad.
2- Religious institutions are not nor should they be subject to PC.
3- Faith or religion (2 different things), need never & should never change to make people 'comfortable' with themselves.
4- Freedom of Religion & Freedom FROM religion are two different things.

This case reminds me of the ones where homosexuals were trying to sue ' The Boy Scouts '
Which is a religious (Christian) organization.
Or the homosexuals( that TARGET), Christian bakers for 'Gay Wedding' cake.


Yea..okay,...ask some Muslim men to hire or keep & unwed mother employed * Without stoning her*.
Ask Muslim men to make homosexuals a wedding cake.
Or even SPEAK to a homosexual.
* Without throwing him off a cliff - Sharia Law *

:angel:

no photo
Thu 05/14/15 03:21 PM

Religious beliefs, can be a peculiar thang.

Wasn't all that long ago, that a stewardess,
acting under the guise of the 'white anglo saxon
protestant' mentality, threw a woman off a southworst
airlines plane, for being "too scantily clad".




Mid air?surprised

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