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| Topic: Some of my best friends,,,, | |
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I seem to recall the OP of this thread posting opinions about homosexuality in the past that many people would consider bigoted and even ignorant. You can say that you just have an opinion about them, or try to use science or scripture to justify those opinions but they are still going to be considered bigoted and ignorant.
It is possible to say or do things that can be called bigoted while still being friendly with members of groups that you are prejudiced against. I know a female minister of the church whose son is gay and although she hasn't discussed it with me, I think it's a case of loving who he is (her son) but not liking what he is (homosexual). It's possible to say that you dislike a particular group in general but that you think that some of them are alright as individuals. There's a certain amount of racism against Pakistanis in this country, for instance and people may have attitudes about their culture and things that make them different but also try to get along amicably with them. I was in a shop run by a Pakistani a couple of years ago and a lady that's a neighbor of mine refered to him as "Al-Qaeda here" right to his face. She didn't mean it in a nasty way and he didn't take offence but some people would still call that bigotry and it wouldn't matter to them that it was said in a humorous spirit and not maliciously. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 06/16/15 03:33 PM
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thats ok TAWT, but if I ever stated ' I dont have anything against homosexuals,, some of my best friends are,,,,'
than I Expect someone to correct me , as that is an old cliche that means nothing,,, you stated "It is possible to say or do things that can be called bigoted while still being friendly with members of groups that you are prejudiced against" that was my point, so we agree......that people find exceptions to their general bigotry isnt proof they arent bigots,, though some often think it does I know I am opposed to HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR, which is as different form not liking homosexuals as being opposed to SMOKING is to not liking smokers certain activities I dont care for, all of which are done by people that I like or love,,, seperate issues so its not that I dont like homosexuals and think some of them are ok,, its that I dont like HOMOSEXUALITY and some of the individuals who engage in the behaviors are ok and some are not just like I think marriage is beautiful, but there are some married people that are butts and some who are not not like activity,, vs not liking groups of INDIVIDUALS,,, its different things,,, female is not an activity, so to not like females is bigotry male is not an activity, so to not like males is bigotry black is not an activity,, so to not like blacks is bigoted to me white is not an activity, so to not like whites is bigoted to me being homosexual is not an activity so not liking homosexuals is bigoted to me ,,,,see how bigotry for entire groups of INDIVIDUALS is different from dislike of a behavior regardless of the group the individual is a part of? |
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there is a difference between disagreeing with others and being INTOLERANT of them,,,,so this thread is not a product of bigotry, I disagree with a behavior, I am not intolerant of any group You're just saying that because some of your best friends are ... Oh, forget it.   Go back to melmac! That's right! I'm an alienist! Wait, that means psychiatrist I think... I'm a specist!  Does this mean that you don't have friends who are Melmacians? NONE of my friends are Melmacians!
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EVERYBODY had biases....everybody!
Whether some of our "best friends" are part of the group we are biased against, or participate in an activity we are biased against, we are still bigoted. Doesn't necessarily make us evil people. That would be akin to me demonizing all women who don't find round bellied fellers attractive for being bigots. They are biased, sure, but not of the attitude that blubber hunks should be treated cruelly (probably because some of their best friends and family members are rotund). They're just being....human. AND.... Some of my best friends are humans......... 
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Why do people still use this as some disclaimer to their bigotry?..lol Not sure I follow, is it always bigotry? I can have Jewish friends and not like the actions of Israel as a country? or I could be in love with a black girl and not like the actions of a group of black folks? it's not a disclaimer, sometimes it's a precursor in a world of quick judgement. It avoids instant labels. sometimes things need to be said and avoiding that label helps in the discussion to advance, sometimes not. |
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Am I the only one who thinks that this topic is a broken record?  No, you not the only one. And people use disclaimers for all kinds of things....TO AVOID CONFLICT " It is non of my business but....blah blah blah " " I don't want to sound sexist but... blah blah blah " " Some of my best friends are gay ... blahblah blah " |
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Why do people still use this as some disclaimer to their bigotry?..lol Not sure I follow, is it always bigotry? I can have Jewish friends and not like the actions of Israel as a country? or I could be in love with a black girl and not like the actions of a group of black folks? it's not a disclaimer, sometimes it's a precursor in a world of quick judgement. It avoids instant labels. sometimes things need to be said and avoiding that label helps in the discussion to advance, sometimes not. no, nothing in the question means its always bigotry, it was specific to those who are bigots, using it as blanket proof of absence of bigotry in your exapmles, if you dont like ISRAEL as a country, unless you mean ISRAEL GOVERNMENt specifically(meaning policies and behaviors), thats not bigotry but if you dont like ISRAEL,, meaning collectively including anyone inside of it,,(with selective exceptions),,yes, thats bigotry and if you dont like a 'group of black folks' as in the way some black folks talk,, that is different than not liking how black people(collectively) speak,,, the latter is bigotry because within the black race , individuals have many different georaphic dialects in how they speak prime example,,,, 'my girlfriend is black but black women need to try not to be so loud' is a bigoted statement, it implies that merely being a black woman means one is loud,,,,and your girlfriend has somehow won you over as one of the 'exceptions' |
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just curious...are some of your friends white? and do you think white people are bigoted?
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I think that you're trying to draw a semantic distinction there to deny that you're "homophobic". It wouldn't cut much ice with gays anyway and they would mostly say that you are, unless they were ashamed of their behaviour or sexual preference. They don't call it gay pride and then think that it's not homophobic to say the things that you do about same sex relationships.
To a certain extent I do agree with you though. Problem is that if you concede that you're intolerant when it comes to types of behaviour it's no different than me saying that I don't like pakis but if they learn how to speak proper English and asimilate properly, rather than just sticking with their own culture and community I'm not a racist really. Xenophobia is still bigotry and not that I pretend to be a liberal but it's in principle bigotry, as far as liberals are concerned, to not accept multiculturalism in all of it's diversity, as long as it doesn't conflict with liberal principles or the law, which what consenting adults do in private does not as long as it does no harm to others. I merely use your feelings about homosexuality as an an example and it's not something that I personally care about. Sure, it's like people on here attacking me because I've publicly stated that I like beer and cannabis, while those same people will say nice things to me in other posts and act like we're friends. Of course they're entitled to their disapproval but what I do is who I am and I'm still offended and it's certainly prejudice that makes them say it. "I hate fascist pigs but my uncle was a policeman and he was alright." That is somewhat contradictory and I either dislike the police or I don't. That's the sort of thing you're talking about I think and I'm sorry if I'm not engaging properly with your main point because, "Some of my best friends are" is an American thing and I'm just chipping in and suggesting why people might talk like that and for them to think that it's alright to be intolerant of groups, whether it's their gender, skin colour, behaviour, or whatever but to also say that they like some of them and get on very well with those ones. |
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just curious...are some of your friends white? and do you think white people are bigoted? I have multicultural associates, my 'friends' are family, who are multiculturacial and multi racial as well I believe people of every race can be bigots, and that every race of people has some bigots in it |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 06/17/15 11:49 AM
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I think that you're trying to draw a semantic distinction there to deny that you're "homophobic". It wouldn't cut much ice with gays anyway and they would mostly say that you are, unless they were ashamed of their behaviour or sexual preference. They don't call it gay pride and then think that it's not homophobic to say the things that you do about same sex relationships. To a certain extent I do agree with you though. Problem is that if you concede that you're intolerant when it comes to types of behaviour it's no different than me saying that I don't like pakis but if they learn how to speak proper English and asimilate properly, rather than just sticking with their own culture and community I'm not a racist really. Xenophobia is still bigotry and not that I pretend to be a liberal but it's in principle bigotry, as far as liberals are concerned, to not accept multiculturalism in all of it's diversity, as long as it doesn't conflict with liberal principles or the law, which what consenting adults do in private does not as long as it does no harm to others. I merely use your feelings about homosexuality as an an example and it's not something that I personally care about. Sure, it's like people on here attacking me because I've publicly stated that I like beer and cannabis, while those same people will say nice things to me in other posts and act like we're friends. Of course they're entitled to their disapproval but what I do is who I am and I'm still offended and it's certainly prejudice that makes them say it. "I hate fascist pigs but my uncle was a policeman and he was alright." That is somewhat contradictory and I either dislike the police or I don't. That's the sort of thing you're talking about I think and I'm sorry if I'm not engaging properly with your main point because, "Some of my best friends are" is an American thing and I'm just chipping in and suggesting why people might talk like that and for them to think that it's alright to be intolerant of groups, whether it's their gender, skin colour, behaviour, or whatever but to also say that they like some of them and get on very well with those ones. again, I believe there is a distinct difference between not like a BEHAVIOR people engage in and not liking any of the PEOPLE who choose to engage in the behavior I agree, any statement of disagreement with homosexuality is met by the ignorant public as 'homophobic' and hateful,,,,, amongst homosexuls,,, from my experience, who actually are willing to LISTEN with logic and not emotionalism,,,,,,not so much I give this LOGICAL example,,,,IF I had a daughter who was 20 and a son who was 22, and they 'came out' at that time as having been in love and involved with each other since they were early teens,, I wouldnt be happy about that BEHAVIOR,, but that wouldnt mean I would suddenly change how much I love my kids or how many things I love or respect about them, or all the things that made me proud of them I dont like the BEHAVIOR, but behaviors are many and no behavior identifies the whole of who a person 'is',,,,,so not caring for the behavior, is a seperate issue from seeing the INDIVIDUAL and liking/disliking THEM. |
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just curious...are some of your friends white? and do you think white people are bigoted? I have multicultural associates, my 'friends' are family, who are multiculturacial and multi racial as well I believe people of every race can be bigots, and that every race of people has some bigots in it so, yes, some of your best friends are white and they are bigots. thank you. |
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just curious...are some of your friends white? and do you think white people are bigoted? I have multicultural associates, my 'friends' are family, who are multiculturacial and multi racial as well I believe people of every race can be bigots, and that every race of people has some bigots in it so, yes, some of your best friends are white and they are bigots. thank you. lol,, nah, I dont have 'best friends' who are white,, but I have family who is white and some have bigoted opinions, and I feel the same way about them when they use the 'some of my best friends,,,," line,,, |
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how do you feel about yourself when you have bigoted opinions?
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Well, well done for not seeing everything (or everybody) as either black or white. I hate so and so because of one thing about them" is kind of childish.
The fact still remains though that here you are, chatting away with people on the internet that you're prejudiced against in some way, if I can put it like that and thinking that you're a good person or Christian for being friendly with them and not shunning them as pariahs. Given that you are a Christian you are not at liberty to cast the first stone, although you can appeal to athority when you want to castigate people but go ahead and continue doing that if logical fallacies are your thing. |
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regularfeller asked >>> just curious...are some of your friends white? and do you think white people are bigoted? MsHarmony replied >>> I have multicultural associates, my 'friends' are family, who are multiculturacial and multi racial as well I believe people of every race can be bigots, and that every race of people has some bigots in it regularfeller posted >>> so, yes, some of your best friends are white and they are bigots. thank you. MsHarmoney posted >>> lol,, nah, I dont have 'best friends' who are white,, but I have family who is white and some have bigoted opinions, and I feel the same way about them when they use the 'some of my best friends,,,," line,,, TOUCH�... I recall precisely when this 'some of my best friends' narrative became a constant topic around many of my social group conversations {circa 1970}  At least it was getting the conversation 'OUT THERE' and my generation was stating our opinion's about: race/gay/lesbian/draft dodgers/equality and OMG - Edith stop being such a DOOR MAT! But then the grouping's changed ever so drastically with the onset of the 'AIDS' scare and that changed things up really rapidly! Where a gay friend wouldn't be invited to a social gathering but would be mentioned as a 'oh, I knew he wouldn't feel comfortable at this party so I just didn't invite him --- but I've got nothing but LOVE FOR MY GAY FRIEND!' Like it was a trinket on her charm bracelet - a quota to have one {gay friend but not to be seen with them} in a public setting or a private party. Reading your thread has enlightened me a great deal - TY and my appreciation for you is on much firmer ground now! "our worlds that we live in aren't so different" LOL  |
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Some parties like to make the false claim that others are bigots when there is no bigotry because those parties don't agree with the politics of the people being wrongfully accused of bigotry.
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Dodo_David stated >>> Some parties like to make the false claim that others are bigots when there is no bigotry because those parties don't agree with the politics of the people being wrongfully accused of bigotry. TY...but weren't you the one that put this out here  >>>   Welcome to the thread; and while so many of you 'OLE' MEMBERS' might get tired of the repetitive topic of conversations around here --- this is how we converse and get acquainted --- it's an exchange of ideas and POV that we won't/don't know until we discuss the issue!  |
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Edited by
TawtStrat
on
Wed 06/17/15 02:21 PM
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Also, it's certainly arguable that comparing incest and homosexuality like that is a false analogy. The gays can certainly claim legal rights and call you a bigot because you don't like what they believe that they are and are meant to be.
You don't deny that homosexuality is natural, on the other hand I suppose and that's the crux of your argument; fallacious as it might be. You can say that we're all sinners and that even being a sex offender or rapist is natural, or a murderer; or say that it's their upbringing or culture or however you want to explain it. You are condemning homosexuality and incest in the same sentence though and saying that they're little different because you think they're both bad. Where do you draw the line? If your child took a dump on your carpet and wrote what he thinks about you with his own feces on your wall would you still love him, even though he's showing nothing but hatred towards you? It's patronising anyway. You don't accept people doing what they do but think that you can still even claim to love those people. Why? Would it make a difference if they weren't related to you? Do you love Nazis, or just not associate with them because they don't like people like you either? You don't like a cliche, you say. You don't like overgeneralisations. It's alright if they're friends of yours, or family but not really alright. You think that incest is a sin and a crime but if it was your own children you could say that you hate perverts but some of your best friends or loved ones are perverts and you're not saying it to say that you hate perverts, or tar them all with the same brush. You are though and that's pretty much all that I have to say about this BS. |
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hello
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