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| Topic: The Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima : | |
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Besides the psychological theory that true atheists & agnostics do not exit, because 'in order to believe in nothing, you have to believe in something' & 'they always want proof'.
I think it is evident, each time they try to stop you.  Because why, would they care? Why would it bother them? We know how it ends 
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According to Fr. John De Marchi, an Italian Catholic priest and researcher who spent seven years in Fatima, 110 miles north of Lisbon, studying the phenomenon and interviewing witnesses, “Engineers that have studied the case reckoned that an incredible amount of energy would have been necessary to dry up those pools of water that had formed on the field in a few minutes as it was reported by witnesses.” Dr. Domingos Pinto Coelho, a noted lawyer from Lisbon and chairman of the Bar Association, reporting in the newspaper Ordem, wrote: “The sun, at one moment surrounded with scarlet flame, at another aureoled in yellow and deep purple, seemed to be in an exceedingly swift and whirling movement, at times appearing to be loosened from the sky and to be approaching the earth, strongly radiating heat.” Dr. Almeida Garrett, professor of natural sciences at the University of Coimbra, was present and was frightened by the spinning sun. Afterward, he wrote: “The sun’s disc did not remain immobile. This was not the sparkling of a heavenly body, for it spun round on itself in a mad whirl, when suddenly a clamor was heard from all the people. The sun, whirling, seemed to loosen itself from the firmament and advance threateningly upon the earth as if to crush us with its huge fiery weight. The sensation during those moments was terrible.” http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kathyschiffer/2014/10/so-that-all-may-believe-the-miracle-of-the-sun/ does any of that sound like it could really happen? It could all really have happened but there are logical explanations for some of these things.There are many interpretations and descriptions of what actually happened and the phenomena listed above are a very poor account.There is little doubt that something very extraordinary did happen but whether there was anything supernatural about these events is another matter. it might have rained that day... There is no doubt it rained heavily that day,undisputed.However if there had been a gale force wind,that might have been cited as supernatural or there might have been a spectacular rainbow or a magnificent lightning display all of which could have been used to imply that something supernatural was taking place.It says "engineers" have studied the case.Were they locomotive engineers or sound engineers what expertise did they have.Engineers looks good but without qualification means little.There are many unexplained but reasonably credible reports on the events of that day.Unexplained does not mean supernatural whether you are a believer or a sceptic. |
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Skeptics have attempted to explain away the phenomenon. At the Catholic University of Louvain, physics professor Auguste Meessen points out that looking directly at the sun can cause phosphene visual artifacts and temporary partial blindness. Meessen believes that retinal after-images produced after brief periods of sun gazing were the cause of the “dancing” effects, and the apparent changes in color were caused by the bleaching of photosensitive retinal cells. Professor Meessen, however, hedges his own bet. “It is impossible,” he writes,
“…to provide any direct evidence for or against the supernatural origin of apparitions…. [t]here may be some exceptions, but in general, the seers are honestly experiencing what they report.” Steuart Campbell, writing for the edition of Journal of Meteorology, postulated in 1989 that a cloud of stratospheric dust changed the appearance of the sun on that day, making it easy to look at. The effect, he conjectured, was that the sun only appeared to be yellow, blue, and violet, and to spin. |
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Saint John Paul II believed in the miracle of Fatima. He believed that the assassination attempt against him in St. Peter’s Square on May 13, 1981, was a fulfillment of the third secret; and he placed the bullet, which had been removed from his body by surgeons, into the crown of the official statue of Our Lady of Fatima. The Catholic Church has declared the apparitions at Fatima “worthy of belief.” As with all private revelations, it is not required that Catholics believe in the apparition; however, the messages of Fatima are generally regarded as relevant, even in the present day.
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that is not through
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It is one of most famous Marian shrines in the world. Some four million people visit Fatima each year, drawn by apparitions of the Virgin Mary reported by three local shepherd children in 1917. What's your opinion? Wasn't that the first documented UFO siting? I believe one witness said the virgin Mary looked round and metallic and could move at incredible speeds. 
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Hi
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According to Fr. John De Marchi, an Italian Catholic priest and researcher who spent seven years in Fatima, 110 miles north of Lisbon, studying the phenomenon and interviewing witnesses, “Engineers that have studied the case reckoned that an incredible amount of energy would have been necessary to dry up those pools of water that had formed on the field in a few minutes as it was reported by witnesses.” Dr. Domingos Pinto Coelho, a noted lawyer from Lisbon and chairman of the Bar Association, reporting in the newspaper Ordem, wrote: “The sun, at one moment surrounded with scarlet flame, at another aureoled in yellow and deep purple, seemed to be in an exceedingly swift and whirling movement, at times appearing to be loosened from the sky and to be approaching the earth, strongly radiating heat.” Dr. Almeida Garrett, professor of natural sciences at the University of Coimbra, was present and was frightened by the spinning sun. Afterward, he wrote: “The sun’s disc did not remain immobile. This was not the sparkling of a heavenly body, for it spun round on itself in a mad whirl, when suddenly a clamor was heard from all the people. The sun, whirling, seemed to loosen itself from the firmament and advance threateningly upon the earth as if to crush us with its huge fiery weight. The sensation during those moments was terrible.” http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kathyschiffer/2014/10/so-that-all-may-believe-the-miracle-of-the-sun/ does any of that sound like it could really happen? It could all really have happened but there are logical explanations for some of these things.There are many interpretations and descriptions of what actually happened and the phenomena listed above are a very poor account.There is little doubt that something very extraordinary did happen but whether there was anything supernatural about these events is another matter. That's why it's called faith. |
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According to Fr. John De Marchi, an Italian Catholic priest and researcher who spent seven years in Fatima, 110 miles north of Lisbon, studying the phenomenon and interviewing witnesses, “Engineers that have studied the case reckoned that an incredible amount of energy would have been necessary to dry up those pools of water that had formed on the field in a few minutes as it was reported by witnesses.” Dr. Domingos Pinto Coelho, a noted lawyer from Lisbon and chairman of the Bar Association, reporting in the newspaper Ordem, wrote: “The sun, at one moment surrounded with scarlet flame, at another aureoled in yellow and deep purple, seemed to be in an exceedingly swift and whirling movement, at times appearing to be loosened from the sky and to be approaching the earth, strongly radiating heat.” Dr. Almeida Garrett, professor of natural sciences at the University of Coimbra, was present and was frightened by the spinning sun. Afterward, he wrote: “The sun’s disc did not remain immobile. This was not the sparkling of a heavenly body, for it spun round on itself in a mad whirl, when suddenly a clamor was heard from all the people. The sun, whirling, seemed to loosen itself from the firmament and advance threateningly upon the earth as if to crush us with its huge fiery weight. The sensation during those moments was terrible.” http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kathyschiffer/2014/10/so-that-all-may-believe-the-miracle-of-the-sun/ does any of that sound like it could really happen? It could all really have happened but there are logical explanations for some of these things.There are many interpretations and descriptions of what actually happened and the phenomena listed above are a very poor account.There is little doubt that something very extraordinary did happen but whether there was anything supernatural about these events is another matter. That's why it's called faith. "faith" is justification of nonsense... never any scientific evidence of anything to do with faith, but yet people still believe... |
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That's what I meant. If you have faith you don't need proof or scientific justification faith isn't always rational it just is. I'm not saying what happened at Fatima is true or not -- it's like that old philosophic statement if you believe it's true then it's true at least for you. Faith can't always be explained.
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That's what I meant. If you have faith you don't need proof or scientific justification faith isn't always rational it just is. I'm not saying what happened at Fatima is true or not -- it's like that old philosophic statement if you believe it's true then it's true at least for you. Faith can't always be explained. if something can't be explained, then it's either: A: nonsense B: something we have no prior knowledge or understanding of... until there's some little iota of proof of something mystical/god like being, then faith is little more than wishful thinking... after 12,000 years and still no proof, then i'm on the wishful thinking side of the equation... but no offense intended to those who practice their faith, i personally don't see the point/need for it... |
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