Topic: Real Abolute Zero VS Scientific Absolute Zero
Tom4Uhere's photo
Mon 01/09/17 10:16 AM
Absolute zero is the lower limit of the thermodynamic temperature scale, a state at which the enthalpy and entropy of a cooled ideal gas reaches its minimum value, taken as 0. The theoretical temperature is determined by extrapolating the ideal gas law; by international agreement, absolute zero is taken as −273.15° on the Celsius scale which equates to −459.67° on the Fahrenheit scale


The laws of thermodynamics dictate that absolute zero cannot be reached using only thermodynamic means, as the temperature of the substance being cooled approaches the temperature of the cooling agent asymptotically. A system at absolute zero still possesses quantum mechanical zero-point energy, the energy of its ground state at absolute zero. The kinetic energy of the ground state cannot be removed.


Temperature is movement.
Movement is frequency.
Frequency generates heat.
Frozen means no movement (frequency of vibration).

When things are freezing they are slowing down. When things are heating they are speeding up.

Science says the absolute lowest temperature that is theoretically possible is -273.15 C.
That temperature is known as Absolute Zero (AZ).

We know Bosons exist.
We know the Boson has a spin.
If the Boson spins, it is moving.
It is part of the Fermions of Matter.

Real Absolute Zero would be when even the spins of Fermions have stopped.
Only then could matter be completely frozen.
It may be at -1000 deg C or -273.18 C.

Any matter that has a cycle of movement cannot be AZ.
If a particle of matter somewhere in the Universe cycles only once in 14 billion years it still has movement, thus it has heat.

Imagine a Universe where every Fermion spin has stopped.
All matter is at AZ.
Nothing moves anywhere at any scale.
It may remain that way forever or a split nanosecond.

Now, introduce movement to that.
A Down Quark starts to spin.
At that point heat is generated, very little heat but heat all the same.
That movement reacts with the frozen Fermions in its vicinity and starts more movement.
Soon, the particle is moving, then the next and the next and so on.
The reaction spreads in all directions faster and faster.
It looks like an explosion, it grows hotter and hotter as the movement increases.
We have ourselves a Big Bang, folks.

Eventually, all the matter that is moving will slow.
As it slows, it cools.
It continues to slow until all matter is once again at Absolute Zero.
We have a Big Freeze, folks.

Science can't achieve true Absolute Zero because we are within a current expansion of movement of all matter.
The thing about AZ that makes it so difficult to replicate is that we can't isolate a particle of matter from all movement.
Even if we could, we would not be able to study the particle because to detect the particle it must move something to be detectable from nothing.
Detection is isolating one thing from another.
Imagine trying to detect a black dot in the middle of a black square.

On the human scale, Think about what happens when you see something. Light reflects off the item and enters your eyes.
When a photon strikes a particle it is absorbed and reflected.
The frequencies of light that are absorbed causes heat in the particle.
The frequencies that are reflected cause movement in the particle that translates to heat.
(Think Solar Sail, yes light can affect matter)

Science has transported a particle quantumly.
So, even quantumly, matter has movement.
AZ also includes frequencies quantumly affected.
Which means, To achieve AZ, the quantum properties of the particle must also be controlled.
Does the Spin of a W Boson also have a quantum state?

This brings me to Energy.
The spin of Fermions requires energy to make it move.
Is energy heat?
Energy generates heat by moving matter.
Heat is a product of Energy.

It is theorized that there is such a thing known as Vacuum Energy or Zero Point Energy (ZPE).
ZPE implies that in a true vacuum, energy erupts into matter and antimatter that annihilate each other in a constant percolation of minute explosions both structurally and quantumly.
When the annihilation is not completed, a particle and antiparticle are created.
Those particles and antiparticles drift in the vacuum until they meet another, then bond or annihilate.
When they bond, over time, they bond with more particles and eventually dust is formed.
The gathering process continues, creating all matter in the Universe.

To achieve Absolute Zero with any particle, even the ZPE will need to be isolated from the particle both actually and quantumly.

When the Universe ends for this phase, all Energy, Including the ZPE will cease to affect matter.
All matter in the Universe will stop moving until ...something...causes a movement.
Then it will explode into a new Universe of movement for a time.

DiminishedConcern's photo
Wed 01/10/18 12:01 AM
I guess the real question is what is space itself. If it affects matter and antimatter then is it simply something that isn't there an absence or is it a constant force itself. Perhaps a differential pressure system in which suggests the opposite must exist elsewhere in greater amount.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Wed 01/10/18 07:40 AM
Space is full of ... stuff.
Both matter and energy.
It seems empty to humans because we exist in a different relativity.

The Universe is so vast that there are likely parts of it where our current understanding of reality does not apply.

Relatively speaking space between particles is just as vast and just as populated with forces and energies. People don't notice because we have no reference to those levels of relativity. We don't exist in the microscpic or macroscopic reference. We live in the scopic.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sat 05/19/18 08:38 PM
Bump for discussion...

notbeold's photo
Sat 05/19/18 09:13 PM
AZ could only be reached if the entire universe locked up at all scales, including universal expansion, and any relative movement in relation to any fixed point, including the boundaries of the universe, whatever they are.

So the universe would also have to be completely isolated with no multiverse type influences on its boundaries or within its matrices.

So then if nothing moves in any way at all, does it even exist ?
And from what point of view ?
Will it be affected by any extra universal emanations, if they exist.

I suppose it is still matter with mass and time - existence, so the space/time continuum will exist surrounding, but it can't really be normal 'time' because if nothing is moving, then what is the meter - frequency - cadence to give time a value.

Quantum mechanics would surely ensure that something popped into or out of existence at some point, creating movement or energy fluctuation.

And if you cannot give time a value does it exist, does then the space exist, does anything exist if it is so still as to not be detectable ?

Does a falling tree make a sound . . what

iam_resurrected's photo
Sat 05/19/18 09:30 PM

Space is full of ... stuff.
Both matter and energy.
It seems empty to humans because we exist in a different relativity.

The Universe is so vast that there are likely parts of it where our current understanding of reality does not apply.

Relatively speaking space between particles is just as vast and just as populated with forces and energies. People don't notice because we have no reference to those levels of relativity. We don't exist in the microscpic or macroscopic reference. We live in the scopic.







and to think, those of higher intelligence presume this is the result of an accident.

a condom breaking is an accident.

the fact the universe is not void, but is full of consumable energy indicates a purpose.

how would a star survive without food?

how would Sol sustain our life if inertia and gravity were inactive. it seems there is a reason why our planet is 3rd from the sun. the planets, moons before and beyond us create the force to sustain our distance to enable life.

hard to believe this is just a random accident. even DNA proves there must be a designer.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sat 05/19/18 09:34 PM
Great observations.
:thumbsup:

Lets think about it for a sec.
For the Universe to be frozen (True Absolute Zero) means no heat.
Heat is movement, hence frozen means no movement.
Even at quantum levels there is some type of movement.
AZ can't be reached until there is no movement at any relativivity because movement in one area creates heat and heat is transferred.

Exo-Universal does not exist. There is no evidence to even propose a hypothesis. So for all intents and purposes, the Universe is everything.
Everything within the boundaries of the Universe are part of it.
This includes thought, dreams and ideas. It is the Universe doing it.
We are in the Universe. Our thoughts and dreams are the Universe thinking and dreaming.
If the Universe is AZ, that means everything is AZ.
With nothing to imagine or ponder existence, nothing exists.

Time, as a concept, is duration.
Even if the Universe were AZ, it would be AZ for a duration.
It doesn't matter if it is for a milisecond or a trillion, trillion years.
It is still a duration.

There is a theory, not sure what its called off hand, that states that over a googalplex of cosmological decades the Universe will slowly cool to AZ. It proposes that all matter will be condensed into a series of sparsely spaced super-massive black holes that slowly cool and stop.
When the final blip of energy stops it will react into an eruption again, giving birth to another Universe. Not in an explosion but a quantum percolation of energy that will grow exponentially everywhere at once.
Well, I imagine everywhere there is a remnant of a black hole anyway.

Does a falling tree make a sound

Certainly

notbeold's photo
Sat 05/19/18 09:40 PM
Edited by notbeold on Sat 05/19/18 09:42 PM
Accidental post!

iam_resurrected's photo
Sat 05/19/18 09:44 PM
laugh

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sat 05/19/18 09:47 PM
and to think, those of higher intelligence presume this is the result of an accident.
a condom breaking is an accident.
the fact the universe is not void, but is full of consumable energy indicates a purpose.
how would a star survive without food?
how would Sol sustain our life if inertia and gravity were inactive. it seems there is a reason why our planet is 3rd from the sun. the planets, moons before and beyond us create the force to sustain our distance to enable life.
hard to believe this is just a random accident. even DNA proves there must be a designer.

Welcome...

If a higher intelligent designer gives you peace, who am I to argue?

Think about the Universe as a whole for a minute.
Its everything, everywhere essentially.
Since you are inside it, you are also the Universe.
If you imagine a place outside the Universe, the Universe is imagining a place outside of itself.
There is a school of thought that in the coming cosmological decades if it can happen, it will.
Our minds do not possess the knowledge of the Universe. The Universe does possess the knowledge of humans and every other form of intelligence able to think.
As a whole, it has the ability to know itself. When we discover some secret unlocked by our science it is the Universe knowing it. Since we are not the only life form in the Universe. The Universe has more knowledge than us.

If the Universe erupted from a state of true absolute zero we don't know if it was its own action or the action of something else completely random. We were not there, we did not witness it and we will never know.
What we know is what we can figure out. We detect the explosion of matter but that is a symptom reacting from some other initiator.
The Big Bang is like pointing at a red Lexus and saying that's a car. Its correct in a sense according to how we can detect it. But, its not the whole story.

iam_resurrected's photo
Sat 05/19/18 10:01 PM
Edited by iam_resurrected on Sat 05/19/18 10:03 PM

and to think, those of higher intelligence presume this is the result of an accident.
a condom breaking is an accident.
the fact the universe is not void, but is full of consumable energy indicates a purpose.
how would a star survive without food?
how would Sol sustain our life if inertia and gravity were inactive. it seems there is a reason why our planet is 3rd from the sun. the planets, moons before and beyond us create the force to sustain our distance to enable life.
hard to believe this is just a random accident. even DNA proves there must be a designer.

Welcome...

If a higher intelligent designer gives you peace, who am I to argue?

Think about the Universe as a whole for a minute.
Its everything, everywhere essentially.
Since you are inside it, you are also the Universe.
If you imagine a place outside the Universe, the Universe is imagining a place outside of itself.
There is a school of thought that in the coming cosmological decades if it can happen, it will.
Our minds do not possess the knowledge of the Universe. The Universe does possess the knowledge of humans and every other form of intelligence able to think.
As a whole, it has the ability to know itself. When we discover some secret unlocked by our science it is the Universe knowing it. Since we are not the only life form in the Universe. The Universe has more knowledge than us.

If the Universe erupted from a state of true absolute zero we don't know if it was its own action or the action of something else completely random. We were not there, we did not witness it and we will never know.
What we know is what we can figure out. We detect the explosion of matter but that is a symptom reacting from some other initiator.
The Big Bang is like pointing at a red Lexus and saying that's a car. Its correct in a sense according to how we can detect it. But, its not the whole story.





although many have misinterpreted Spinoza's God as being plasmatic, Einstein viewed it as Thought and Extension of higher Knowledge. Granted, he did not believe in the person to person relationship of God, but he still understood there was a higher knowledge above his own when he viewed the universe. he could see a Reasoning for what he observed and understood there would never be an answer for it.

even Galileo understood the patterns of the universe. the formation of the stars, planets, and the cosmos beyond our own. he even stated, "mathematics is the language by which God created the universe." which is ironic when you think about it. how are we observing the universe? quantum mechanics, time, rate, gravity, electromagnetics, inertia, speed, sound, radioactivity, energy which is all broken down by formulas of mathematics.

even biology is broken down for chemists by mathematics.

all forms of energy broken down by mathematics.


Tom4Uhere's photo
Sat 05/19/18 10:53 PM
although many have misinterpreted Spinoza's God as being plasmatic, Einstein viewed it as Thought and Extension of higher Knowledge. Granted, he did not believe in the person to person relationship of God, but he still understood there was a higher knowledge above his own when he viewed the universe. he could see a Reasoning for what he observed and understood there would never be an answer for it.
even Galileo understood the patterns of the universe. the formation of the stars, planets, and the cosmos beyond our own. he even stated, "mathematics is the language by which God created the universe." which is ironic when you think about it. how are we observing the universe? quantum mechanics, time, rate, gravity, electromagnetics, inertia, speed, sound, radioactivity, energy which is all broken down by formulas of mathematics.
even biology is broken down for chemists by mathematics.
all forms of energy broken down by mathematics.

You do know the whole concept of mathematics is based on our own imagination, right? We created mathematics.
There may be parts within the Universe that mathematics don't apply.
Can you apply math to a dream, love, sadness, an idea, imagination?
All those things are the Universe too.
Mathematics is limited because our understanding of the Universe is limited.
There may come a time or there may be an intelligence in the Universe that doesn't use mathematics at all. We don't know.
When math doesn't quite fit what do we do?
WE create a new integer, value or symbol to make it work.
Did Pi exist or did we invent it to make the math make sense?
Does infinity exist? What exactly is zero? Does zero exist or is it a mathematical invention to represent nothing. If zero is nothing, how can there be a value less than zero?
Mathematics works for our current understanding but it certainly is not the baseline explanation. As we unlock new discoveries, math may be discarded like an old shoe for something that works better.

iam_resurrected's photo
Sat 05/19/18 11:48 PM

You do know the whole concept of mathematics is based on our own imagination, right? We created mathematics.


I believe we had an idea concerning math. I also believe that idea was purposely implanted. It's the same concept you hear with the bible, God inspired.


There may be parts within the Universe that mathematics don't apply.


this is only due to time. in time, someone will have an idea that explains the unknown and then it will require math, or I should state, "mathematics will be added to it whether it is correct or incorrect.


Can you apply math to a dream, love, sadness, an idea, imagination?


depends on the level of emotion involved. that can be mathematically solved.


All those things are the Universe too.


agreed


Mathematics is limited because our understanding of the Universe is limited.


I disagree knowing how calculus works. after all, it's the basis of quantum mechanics. but then again, only about 15% of all humans understand trigonometry.


There may come a time or there may be an intelligence in the Universe that doesn't use mathematics at all. We don't know.


I believe we have already witnessed that in dating methods [radioactive-uranium-carbon]


When math doesn't quite fit what do we do?


what science has done when aging unstable environment samples in a stable conditioned environment...we skew the numbers.


WE create a new integer, value or symbol to make it work.


agreed, as per my prior answer.


Did Pi exist or did we invent it to make the math make sense?


in my opinion it existed because of God creating math. you do know mathematics is used throughout the entire Bible. from the Ark of the Covenant, Mercy Seat, the poles to transport them, the layout of the Temple, the Ark, etc...the list goes on and on [cubit]. even in the book of Job, God is noted as claiming he used a ruler in creating the universe.


Does infinity exist? What exactly is zero? Does zero exist or is it a mathematical invention to represent nothing. If zero is nothing, how can there be a value less than zero?


I believe zero is midpoint denoting negative numbers to positive numbers. I believe infinity is a lazy person's excuse for not counting beyond their want.


Mathematics works for our current understanding but it certainly is not the baseline explanation. As we unlock new discoveries, math may be discarded like an old shoe for something that works better.


as long as engineering is involved, math will have a home. even science before it applied math and was based upon opinion. today, you don't have a theory without having math to verify it.

it's possible we might get beyond the need for math. but as long as we work for wages, it will always be necessary.


iam_resurrected's photo
Sat 05/19/18 11:55 PM
Job 38:4-5 CJB

The Complete Jewish Bible




Scripture Formatting
4 "Where were you when I founded the earth? Tell me, if you know so much. 5 Do you know who determined its dimensions or who stretched the measuring line across it?