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| Topic: trump showing he cares about the USA | |
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Edited by
IgorFrankensteen
on
Mon 09/18/17 03:03 PM
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The ATF, I remember when Bill Clinton and Janet Reno killed 100s of men women and children with their asinine plan to get Branch Davidian leader David Karesh for weapons charges by burning the building and everyone in it. No matter if mistakes were made those two are responsible. A major cluster???k. Maybe this one won't get deleted. [BUZZZZZZ!!!!!] You remember wrong. That was the FBI who assaulted the compound, and watched it burn to the ground. Not the ATF. At that time, the FBI was run by William Sessions. A Ronald Reagan appointee. Clinton fired him soon after. |
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The ATF, I remember when Bill Clinton and Janet Reno killed 100s of men women and children with their asinine plan to get Branch Davidian leader David Karesh for weapons charges by burning the building and everyone in it. No matter if mistakes were made those two are responsible. A major cluster???k. Maybe this one won't get deleted. [BUZZZZZZ!!!!!] You remember wrong. That was the FBI who assaulted the compound, and watched it burn to the ground. Not the ATF. At that time, the FBI was run by William Sessions. A Ronald Reagan appointee. Clinton fired him soon after. Janet Reno gave the order... after that, the survivors said the FBI caused the fire, and the FBI said it was the Davidians that caused it, saying they had stored a bunch of flamable liquids inside... here's a story about it, from 99... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-really-happened-at-waco/ |
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The ATF, I remember when Bill Clinton and Janet Reno killed 100s of men women and children with their asinine plan to get Branch Davidian leader David Karesh for weapons charges by burning the building and everyone in it. No matter if mistakes were made those two are responsible. A major cluster???k. Maybe this one won't get deleted. [BUZZZZZZ!!!!!] You remember wrong. That was the FBI who assaulted the compound, and watched it burn to the ground. Not the ATF. At that time, the FBI was run by William Sessions. A Ronald Reagan appointee. Clinton fired him soon after. the ATF lost 4 men on the first raid, then the FBI took over... |
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i'm not sure where what your thought processes here are, but in any military unit, the leader gets credit for everything, good or bad, because he's in charge... so trump will get credit for things that happen during his presidency... good example-did obarry create obarrycare? no, others did and he put his name on it... Again, you are referring to pure cartoon fantasies of your own. No such person or program exists, or ever existed. And no, even in the military, credit is given where credit is due. Trump does NOT get credit for anything he didn't do, or blame for anything he didn't do. Except from propagandists and other liars, of course.   whatever... obviously you know nothing about how the government works...
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The ATF, I remember when Bill Clinton and Janet Reno killed 100s of men women and children with their asinine plan to get Branch Davidian leader David Karesh for weapons charges by burning the building and everyone in it. No matter if mistakes were made those two are responsible. A major cluster???k. Maybe this one won't get deleted. [BUZZZZZZ!!!!!] You remember wrong. That was the FBI who assaulted the compound, and watched it burn to the ground. Not the ATF. At that time, the FBI was run by William Sessions. A Ronald Reagan appointee. Clinton fired him soon after. the ATF lost 4 men on the first raid, then the FBI took over... |
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The ATF, I remember when Bill Clinton and Janet Reno killed 100s of men women and children with their asinine plan to get Branch Davidian leader David Karesh for weapons charges by burning the building and everyone in it. No matter if mistakes were made those two are responsible. A major cluster???k. Maybe this one won't get deleted. [BUZZZZZZ!!!!!] You remember wrong. That was the FBI who assaulted the compound, and watched it burn to the ground. Not the ATF. At that time, the FBI was run by William Sessions. A Ronald Reagan appointee. Clinton fired him soon after. Janet Reno gave the order... after that, the survivors said the FBI caused the fire, and the FBI said it was the Davidians that caused it, saying they had stored a bunch of flamable liquids inside... here's a story about it, from 99... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-really-happened-at-waco/ Sort of. You've exaggerated a bit by stating that Reno "ordered the final assault." According to the information you use as a source, the FBI originated the idea of, the plan for, and the need for the final assault. Reno was told about it and did approve it. But did NOT think it up, or have anything to do with designing the details about it. Including the information you've presented, there's still no support for blaming ONLY Democrats for that mess. I'm not defending anyone, myself. As always, I am holding to an actual factual look at events, specifically to AVOID A PARTISAN DISTORTION. Overall, the mess that was Waco was identical to the mess that was the Jim Jones massacre in Guyana years before. An apocalyptic religious leader purposely led his own people to destruction. Essentially in Waco, it may have been classic "suicide by cop," as opposed to directly forcing everyone to drink poison, but in the end it was the same thing. |
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The ATF, I remember when Bill Clinton and Janet Reno killed 100s of men women and children with their asinine plan to get Branch Davidian leader David Karesh for weapons charges by burning the building and everyone in it. No matter if mistakes were made those two are responsible. A major cluster???k. Maybe this one won't get deleted. [BUZZZZZZ!!!!!] You remember wrong. That was the FBI who assaulted the compound, and watched it burn to the ground. Not the ATF. At that time, the FBI was run by William Sessions. A Ronald Reagan appointee. Clinton fired him soon after. Janet Reno gave the order... after that, the survivors said the FBI caused the fire, and the FBI said it was the Davidians that caused it, saying they had stored a bunch of flamable liquids inside... here's a story about it, from 99... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-really-happened-at-waco/ Sort of. You've exaggerated a bit by stating that Reno "ordered the final assault." According to the information you use as a source, the FBI originated the idea of, the plan for, and the need for the final assault. Reno was told about it and did approve it. But did NOT think it up, or have anything to do with designing the details about it. Including the information you've presented, there's still no support for blaming ONLY Democrats for that mess. I'm not defending anyone, myself. As always, I am holding to an actual factual look at events, specifically to AVOID A PARTISAN DISTORTION. Overall, the mess that was Waco was identical to the mess that was the Jim Jones massacre in Guyana years before. Anq apocalyptic religious leader purposely led his own people to destruction. Essentially in Waco, it may have been classic "suicide by cop," as opposed to directly forcing everyone to drink poison, but in the end it was the same thing. |
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https://www.bizarrepedia.com/waco-siege/ The ATF decided to take raid to the ranch on February 28th, 1993 which resulted in a gun battle between the Davidians and law enforcement. Unfortunately, during this raid, four agents and six branch members were left dead. After this occurred, the FBI got involved and initiated a standoff that lasted 51 days that will forever go down in history. The End of the Siege 51 days into the siege, Attorney General, Janet Reno approved paperwork to proceed with a final assault on the compound. This final assault meant that the FBI could do whatever they wanted in order to remove Branch Davidians from the compound, even if meant using excessive force. In the course of the removal, the compound caught on fire. Many believe that the Branch Davidians intentionally set their compound on fire. Others believe that the fire was deliberately set by the FBI in hopes that the Davidians would try to escape the flames and make their way outside. Unfortunately, there is no valid documentation regarding how the fire was started or who actually started it. There are however many different conspiracies regarding this. |
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https://www.bizarrepedia.com/waco-siege/ The ATF decided to take raid to the ranch on February 28th, 1993 which resulted in a gun battle between the Davidians and law enforcement. Unfortunately, during this raid, four agents and six branch members were left dead. After this occurred, the FBI got involved and initiated a standoff that lasted 51 days that will forever go down in history. The End of the Siege 51 days into the siege, Attorney General, Janet Reno approved paperwork to proceed with a final assault on the compound. This final assault meant that the FBI could do whatever they wanted in order to remove Branch Davidians from the compound, even if meant using excessive force. In the course of the removal, the compound caught on fire. Many believe that the Branch Davidians intentionally set their compound on fire. Others believe that the fire was deliberately set by the FBI in hopes that the Davidians would try to escape the flames and make their way outside. Unfortunately, there is no valid documentation regarding how the fire was started or who actually started it. There are however many different conspiracies regarding this. they found a tear gas canister 6 years after that the FBI used (and said they didn't, but then admitted it after the evidence was shown) that is known to cause fires... |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 09/19/17 03:47 PM
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I think the media and his opponents put his name on it. But you are correct. Much of what happens under a President, even when he has no direct input or is only very indirectly involved, is credited to the President or blamed on him. I think it is more accurate to say something happened 'under President whomever' most times, because not everything that happens WHILE they are president happens BECAUSE they are President. Are you reading what is posted? I don't believe my words were that difficult to understand. I posted what I meant about Presidents, any president. |
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Edited by
IgorFrankensteen
on
Tue 09/19/17 05:43 PM
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https://www.bizarrepedia.com/waco-siege/ The ATF decided to take raid to the ranch on February 28th, 1993 which resulted in a gun battle between the Davidians and law enforcement. Unfortunately, during this raid, four agents and six branch members were left dead. After this occurred, the FBI got involved and initiated a standoff that lasted 51 days that will forever go down in history. The End of the Siege 51 days into the siege, Attorney General, Janet Reno approved paperwork to proceed with a final assault on the compound. This final assault meant that the FBI could do whatever they wanted in order to remove Branch Davidians from the compound, even if meant using excessive force. In the course of the removal, the compound caught on fire. Many believe that the Branch Davidians intentionally set their compound on fire. Others believe that the fire was deliberately set by the FBI in hopes that the Davidians would try to escape the flames and make their way outside. Unfortunately, there is no valid documentation regarding how the fire was started or who actually started it. There are however many different conspiracies regarding this. they found a tear gas canister 6 years after that the FBI used (and said they didn't, but then admitted it after the evidence was shown) that is known to cause fires... Yeah, I saw that. It doesn't prove that all of the fires were thus caused, only that such canisters can cause fires. The investigation is not conclusive either way about it. By the way, we should really drop this whole line of chat, since the Waco mess has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump's accomplishments or lack thereof. |
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The ATF, I remember when Bill Clinton and Janet Reno killed 100s of men women and children with their asinine plan to get Branch Davidian leader David Karesh for weapons charges by burning the building and everyone in it. No matter if mistakes were made those two are responsible. A major cluster???k. Maybe this one won't get deleted. [BUZZZZZZ!!!!!] You remember wrong. That was the FBI who assaulted the compound, and watched it burn to the ground. Not the ATF. At that time, the FBI was run by William Sessions. A Ronald Reagan appointee. Clinton fired him soon after. Janet Reno gave the order... after that, the survivors said the FBI caused the fire, and the FBI said it was the Davidians that caused it, saying they had stored a bunch of flamable liquids inside... here's a story about it, from 99... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-really-happened-at-waco/ Sort of. You've exaggerated a bit by stating that Reno "ordered the final assault." According to the information you use as a source, the FBI originated the idea of, the plan for, and the need for the final assault. Reno was told about it and did approve it. But did NOT think it up, or have anything to do with designing the details about it. Including the information you've presented, there's still no support for blaming ONLY Democrats for that mess. I'm not defending anyone, myself. As always, I am holding to an actual factual look at events, specifically to AVOID A PARTISAN DISTORTION. Overall, the mess that was Waco was identical to the mess that was the Jim Jones massacre in Guyana years before. An apocalyptic religious leader purposely led his own people to destruction. Essentially in Waco, it may have been classic "suicide by cop," as opposed to directly forcing everyone to drink poison, but in the end it was the same thing. |
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you say in the end Waco disaster is the same as Guyana tragedy can you explain how suicide which is what Guyana was about, mass suicide is the same as people getting trapped in a building set on fire by tear gas bombs . I don't understand your logic on this one Both were the end result of hundreds of people subverting themselves to the crazy will and whims of an apocalyptic religious fanatic, who insisted that they all die with him for his cause. |
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you say in the end Waco disaster is the same as Guyana tragedy can you explain how suicide which is what Guyana was about, mass suicide is the same as people getting trapped in a building set on fire by tear gas bombs . I don't understand your logic on this one Both were the end result of hundreds of people subverting themselves to the crazy will and whims of an apocalyptic religious fanatic, who insisted that they all die with him for his cause. you are right, JJ made sure everyone drank, even the ones that didn't want to had guns pointed at there heads... but i don't think the davidians wanted to die in a fire, i think the FBI screwed up, and blamed david so they wouldn't get sued... |
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https://www.bizarrepedia.com/waco-siege/ The ATF decided to take raid to the ranch on February 28th, 1993 which resulted in a gun battle between the Davidians and law enforcement. Unfortunately, during this raid, four agents and six branch members were left dead. After this occurred, the FBI got involved and initiated a standoff that lasted 51 days that will forever go down in history. The End of the Siege 51 days into the siege, Attorney General, Janet Reno approved paperwork to proceed with a final assault on the compound. This final assault meant that the FBI could do whatever they wanted in order to remove Branch Davidians from the compound, even if meant using excessive force. In the course of the removal, the compound caught on fire. Many believe that the Branch Davidians intentionally set their compound on fire. Others believe that the fire was deliberately set by the FBI in hopes that the Davidians would try to escape the flames and make their way outside. Unfortunately, there is no valid documentation regarding how the fire was started or who actually started it. There are however many different conspiracies regarding this. they found a tear gas canister 6 years after that the FBI used (and said they didn't, but then admitted it after the evidence was shown) that is known to cause fires... Yeah, I saw that. It doesn't prove that all of the fires were thus caused, only that such canisters can cause fires. The investigation is not conclusive either way about it. By the way, we should really drop this whole line of chat, since the Waco mess has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump's accomplishments or lack thereof. well,it does prove the FBI lied... |
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you say in the end Waco disaster is the same as Guyana tragedy can you explain how suicide which is what Guyana was about, mass suicide is the same as people getting trapped in a building set on fire by tear gas bombs . I don't understand your logic on this one Both were the end result of hundreds of people subverting themselves to the crazy will and whims of an apocalyptic religious fanatic, who insisted that they all die with him for his cause. you are right, JJ made sure everyone drank, even the ones that didn't want to had guns pointed at there heads... but i don't think the davidians wanted to die in a fire, i think the FBI screwed up, and blamed david so they wouldn't get sued... Maybe, maybe not. The only people blaming the conflagration on the FBI so far, are conspiracy theory fans. No investigation supported that conclusion, even with the few tear gas canisters that were known to cause fires being used. And again, what does this have to o with Trump? |
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you say in the end Waco disaster is the same as Guyana tragedy can you explain how suicide which is what Guyana was about, mass suicide is the same as people getting trapped in a building set on fire by tear gas bombs . I don't understand your logic on this one Both were the end result of hundreds of people subverting themselves to the crazy will and whims of an apocalyptic religious fanatic, who insisted that they all die with him for his cause. you are right, JJ made sure everyone drank, even the ones that didn't want to had guns pointed at there heads... but i don't think the davidians wanted to die in a fire, i think the FBI screwed up, and blamed david so they wouldn't get sued... Maybe, maybe not. The only people blaming the conflagration on the FBI so far, are conspiracy theory fans. No investigation supported that conclusion, even with the few tear gas canisters that were known to cause fires being used. And again, what does this have to o with Trump? threads drift... |
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you say in the end Waco disaster is the same as Guyana tragedy can you explain how suicide which is what Guyana was about, mass suicide is the same as people getting trapped in a building set on fire by tear gas bombs . I don't understand your logic on this one Both were the end result of hundreds of people subverting themselves to the crazy will and whims of an apocalyptic religious fanatic, who insisted that they all die with him for his cause. |
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Edited by
mui887
on
Wed 09/20/17 06:25 PM
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Go on his website and score one of those USA hats he wears.
Its a lousy $40, and chances are most ppl dont even know its affiliated with POTUS for his 2020 campaign. I dont care, but I got my hat last week and its really well made! |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 09/20/17 06:53 PM
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I think the media and his opponents put his name on it. But you are correct. Much of what happens under a President, even when he has no direct input or is only very indirectly involved, is credited to the President or blamed on him. I think it is more accurate to say something happened 'under President whomever' most times, because not everything that happens WHILE they are president happens BECAUSE they are President. Are you reading what is posted? I don't believe my words were that difficult to understand. I posted what I meant about Presidents, any president. Are you understanding his words? You only seem to understand your own words. He made perfect sense. not to break up the mutual admiration society, but that question is asked and answered already. but for those stuck on the personal attacks, I will clarify point by point... question: Were you implying President Trump is not involved or has no input? answer: Much of what happens under a President, even when he has no direct input or is only very indirectly involved, is credited to the President or blamed on him. clarification: This is a factual observation about what happens under EVERY president MUCH of the time. Not under Trump in every situation. personal attack: You should leave that alternate plane you are on and get back to reality. RESPONSE: there is no 'alternate plane' involved in the truthful statement that was posted regarding how presidents are blamed or given credit. Claim: all these increases in the economy, the improvements to our military, the lower # of illegal aliens coming in to our country. Strengthening our alliance with Israel . Etc. Etc. Etc. RESPONSE: These are unsubstantiated with any facts or numbers or quantifiable information and hard to pinpoint to Trump directly, reinforcing my original point. Claim: He's doing what a President should do. Getting things done in a way that helps the country now harm it. RESPONSE: This is more of the same. Personal opinion without quantifiable information or facts. I didn't say he didn't make sense, that is more projection to turn a general topic into a personal series of attacks. |
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