Revelation 20 CJB

The Complete Jewish Bible

10 The Adversary who had deceived them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


this is the Jewish version and translation of the Revelation. notice verse 10 carefully and specifically at the end of it. it does not state the sinners not found written in the book of Life will suffer this, after being cast into the Lake of Fire. but it does state the Adversary, Beast, and False Prophet will be tormented day/night forever...obviously this would include the fallen [demonic] angels.


so it does appear there will be eternal suffering. it does not state concerning sinners, not found written and then cast into the Lake of fire, if they partake in this eternal suffering. but it does state those responsible for sin, and those entities who are direct spiritual enemies of God, THEY will be suffering for all eternity!!

Why is it necessary to create, believe in, and worship a god? What is there lacking in the human psyche which requires this fantasy in order to live and to be happy and to do good things? All this can be accomplished without an imaginary friend or magical thinking.

It is very foolish to say there is no God muchless no eternal punishment/torment.

That would be living in a state of fantasy.
Without God there is absolutely no hope for mankind.

So then mankind was hopeless for tens of thousands of years until a god came along to give us hope.

The same hopeless mankind which didn't demean or kill each other for believing in different invisible imaginary magical friends, until god came along.

Without logic there is absolutely no hope for mankind.

CLV Dan 12:2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion.

Strong's

H5769 `owlam o-lawm'
or lolam {o-lawm'};

from H5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; frequentatively, adverbial (especially with prepositional prefix) always. Compare H5331, H5703.

This word does NOT mean "eternity." Ancient man had no concept of 1000 years. To them, much like today, 1000 years might as well have been an "eternity." To us, it's just a number as no one has ever lived to be 1000 years old. An "eon" is an "age." It has a beginning and an end. Eternity has no beginning, so it cannot "start."

CLV Matt 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

This is the same word as 'olam' except in Ancient Greek, and has the same meaning. This word does NOT mean "eternal." An "eon" has a beginning and an ending.

CLV Rev 14:11 And the fumes of their torment are ascending for the eons of the eons. And they are having not rest day and night, those worshiping the wild beast and its image, and if anyone is getting the emblem of its name.

Again, the Ancient Greek term 'aion' is the same as the Ancient Hebrew term 'olam."

In this verse the word "eon" is plural. How many "eternities" do you think there are?

The words 'olam' and 'aion' both represent an age, with a beginning and an ending. The duration of an eon might be 1000 years or more, but it does have an ending. In this case, as in Matt 25:46, the word "eon" represents what we call the Millennium, which is defined as 1000 years in the Book of Revelation.

You have not shown an "eternal" punishment.




That is not Scriptural. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the Earth is 5,000 years old.



Actually, the story of mankind includes his fall from God. The tens of thousands of years before Genesis mankind was not mortal and was not confined to the Earth alone.

Have you ever read the Story of Adam and Eve from the Apocrypha?

Every NT manuscript is a "Jewish" version.

CLV Matt 15:24 Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

CLV Matt 10:6 Yet be going rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

CLV Acts 5:31 This Inaugurator and Saviour, God exalts to His right hand, to give repentance to Israel and the pardon of sins.

The Gentiles were not invited to the gospel until Paul's ministry.

So where does this "Jewish version and translation of the Revelation" come from? What manuscripts were they translated from?

The Concordant Literal Version was translated from the 4 oldest and most complete Ancient Koine Greek manuscripts...

Codex Vaticanus (a & b)
Codex Alexandrinus
Codex Sinaiticus

Today every English NT is checked against these manuscripts. Every one.

CLV Rev 20:10 And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.

Once again, as in my above post, the "eons" or "ages" are described in the plural. How many "eternities" did you think there are?

"the Adversary, Beast, and False Prophet will be tormented day/night forever."

Not "forever." Just for an "eon."

You have not shown that there is an "eternal" punishment.

You haven't shown that there isn't an eternal punishment, but The Word of God has shown there is.

The Holy Spirit confirms the truths of God's Word.

Any confusion is strictly from the flesh.

Right. and misrepresenting the words in the Scriptures is part of God's plan.

Actually, I already have proven there is no "eternal" punishment.

But you have not answered my question.

In this verse the word "eon" is plural. How many "eternities" do you think there are?

Okay, I agree but not because of anything written in this thread.

Due to the COBE telescope experience, we now know the supposed BANG took place from literally NOTHING, and then the laws came into effect [singularity-gravity-electromagnetics-physics]. supporters of this theory are Krause and several other prominent astrophysicists of today, including Neil Tyson DeGrasse.

it is also why they are playing with this idea of a simulated universe.

basically, they have tossed out the old idealisms of the BBT because the COBE experience proves the laws of physics, gravity, singularity, did not pre-exist the BANG.

so this now leads to the ultimate question:


what caused the BANG, and then from that BANG created the Laws of Physics?


there are no more soup theories, no more singularity expansion heating/freezing/space shrinking to cause annihilation. the COBE experiment proves this.


so, if none of those string ideas we once believed in did not exist to cause shrinkage and then expansion, then what did cause the BANG from literally nothing...nothing...nothing?


intelligence is not based upon denying God and believing we are energy that connects to all things. intelligence is knowing the true facts [which we do now due to the COBE experiment] and correct our thinking.


and to understand the BANG took place without the Laws of physics, but rather the Laws of physics were created from the BANG, is about as intellectually one can understand that GOD had a hand in creation.




but you must also understand my views:


1. Genesis 1:1 claims at this moment earth is completed and according to Hebrew language humanity exists. [several verses confirm there was people on earth before Adam].

2. From Genesis 1:1 to 1:2 explains the "ice age."

3. the creation story of Adam is mentioned because it leads to Yeshua [Jesus], not all humanity.

the creation of Adam was not the first human [Adam's son married a woman from another place where people already existed].

the BIBLE does not claim the earth is only 6,000 years old. the Book of Job puts mankind with herbivores, dinosaurs, and other massive beasts. it's what drew my interest into science from reading the Book of Job.



now, on the flip side:

my profession is mathematics. which I follow Galileo's thoughts, "mathematics is the language by which God created the universe."

and if you like, I can prove how science has skewed test samples in order to age them according to their lies [1 concept is easy: removing a sample that is considered unstable to test it in a stable environment will skew the mathematics by an easy million years or more].

another is using the microscope [we have tested literally billions of single cell samples for over 150 years and not a single one has ever divided to become 2 cells][yes, biologists have played GOD and manipulated the process][but naturally, not one single cell example, which some would have had to be old enough for the dividing process, has never done as science proposed as the process].


these are just 2 examples where logic does not exist. and yet, the intellect rather believe in manipulations than mathematical facts.


you do understand that science once was only based upon opinion? it was Galileo who introduced mathematics to science. he proved mathematics is fact vs a theory based upon opinion.


so in conclusion, if the mathematics does not equate, the theory is incorrect. but yet, millions of intellectuals are blindly believing a lie. which therefore, makes one not very intellectual!!

Then why? Have you seen my thread The End of the World - Eon?

No, but you obviously haven't seen most of my threads or replies either.
If you had, you wouldn't be asking me... why?

the Jewish version uses the term forever. and who actually knows what an eon to God is? definitely neither of us, nor anyone trying to explain the word eon. the Lake of Fire was designed for the Adversary and his entities to suffer. a JUST GOD would make the adversary suffer for manipulating His creation the same amount of time that He will exist [which is eternity - forever].

No, I haven't. But I am new here. Several of us have come from Datehookup, which has recently closed down. I know my profile says I have been here since 2013, and I have. But I mostly stayed at datehookup and pretty much did not visit this website.

But if you keep posting here I will keep an eye out for your posts. At least for now.




Paul defined 5 eons. An eon is an age. That seems pretty simple, doesn't it?

If your Jewish version uses the word "eternal" or "eternity" or any of the other synonyms, then it is wrong.

Eternity has no beginning. You can't say, "from now on..." with "eternity." If someone is being punished they will have always been punished, from the beginning of time, if there is such a thing. No one can be sent to an "eternal" punishment.

But an "age" or "eon" has a beginning and an ending. It might be a thousand years, like the Millennium. Or it may be several thousand years. But it does have an ending. And a beginning.

Also, you have not answered the question I posed to blake.

CLV Rev 20:10 And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.

The term 'aion' is plural here, as in many places in the Bible. I use this as an example.

How can there be more than one eternity? But there can be many eons or ages.

So that is two points you have yet to address.

Hey BigD,
I hope I hope you don't get offended by this but ummm...
You have bumps in the wrong places for me.
I truly don't care if you take interest in me at all.
Personally, arguing religion and politics is not my reason for being in M2 forums.
While I have no issue letting others believe what they want, most arguments in those topics refuse to let me have the same courtesy.
Just a bit of insight, I know most people don't read what I write.
I don't read quoted scripture responses either.
So most of your threads are nonsensical to me.
While I am more than happy to discuss any opinion in someones own words, with reason, quoted scripture is insignificant.
I am here mainly for entertainment purposes.
I like exploring different philosophies, sometimes they open new avenues for me to consider.
It makes me flexible.

from the Jewish Bible concerning Paul's 5 AGES:


Romans 16:25 CJB

25 Now to God, who can strengthen you, according to my Good News, in harmony with the revelation of the secret truth which is the proclamation of Yeshua the Messiah, kept hidden in silence for ages and ages,




Ephesians 2:7 CJB

7 in order to exhibit in the ages to come how infinitely rich is his grace, how great is his kindness toward us who are united with the Messiah Yeshua.




Ephesians 3:9 CJB

9 and of letting everyone see how this secret plan is going to work out. This plan, kept hidden for ages by God, the Creator of everything,



Colossians 1:26 CJB

26 the secret hidden for generations, for ages, but now made clear to the people he has set apart for himself.




Hebrews 9:26 CJB

26 for then he would have had to suffer death many times - from the founding of the universe on. But as it is, he has appeared once at the end of the ages in order to do away with sin through the sacrifice of himself.








IT IS RATHER CLEAR THE JEWS UNDERSTAND THIS TERM FROM PAUL.

but, they don't use this term of Paul's to describe verse 10.


REVELATION 20:

10 The Adversary who had deceived them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.



this means, to the JEWS, it does not mean as you believe and want it to believe.

it means, just as the JEWS have translated it to be...FOREVER!!



I believe the Jewish translation over the Greek, since the Hebrew Bible is Jewish, not Greek!!

Reading these excessively long dissertations in ancient religious scribbles is feeling a bit like eternal punishment.

It seems your Bible translates the term 'aion' as "age." That is, until it comes to Rev 20:10. Why the inconsistency?

And what manuscripts were used in this "Jewish" version? You say they were not Greek? Perhaps Latin?

"Eternity" has no beginning. So if there is "eternal" punishment then those who are experiencing that would have been doing so For long before this age. In fact, the only One who can experience "eternity" is God. Is He not the only being that is eternal, no beginning and no end?

And just how can you account for the various "eternities" mentioned in Rev. 20:10?

It seems your English version is more of a mystery than an answer.

I really don't know what you mean by that.

I am sure we all are here for entertainment purposes. I am not sure what you can accomplish other than that.

aw yer just funnin me...right?
Bumps in the wrong places...get it?
Man...woman...you know, bumps in the wrong places...