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| Topic: Which Did You Think Was "hell"? | |
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My logic isn't flawed whatsoever and I never said the 20/20 rule was Scriptural. The Scriptures tell us how to study the Scriptures. And there is no mention of a 20/20 rule. It's a shame you don't understand the simple implications. And, yes, your logic is flawed. Gods will that all be saved and that all will be saved are two greatly different things. The first is true , the latter is not. You don't think God can make His Will come true? Oh, ye of little faith. I cannot continue this discussion. You have provided no Scripture to back up anything you say. Your posts are nonsense and you have been attacking me. Grow up. CLV Matt 5:48 You, then, shall be mature as your heavenly Father is mature. Seems you are the one who needs to grow up since you continue to falsely accuse others repeatedly because they do not agree with you . Also once again , I never said the 20/20 rule was Scriptural. It is a shame you cannot comprehend something so simple. My logic as you say is not flawed regarding the Scriptures whatsoever. And it isn't a lack of faith on my part regarding Gods will that all come to repentance and receive Him as Saviour. Rather , it is a matter of fact that all do not get saved. That is Scriptural. What isn't Scriptural is the lie you try to promote stating that all will get saved , and then trying to back it up by taking Gods Word completely out of context. Apparently your "logic" is flawed . Your understanding of the Scriptures is wacky and nonsensical. And if someone doesn't agree with you , then you attack them then have the audacity to say others are attacking you. Grow up , no one is attacking you whatsoever. |
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I cannot continue this discussion. You have provided no Scripture to back up anything you say. Your posts are nonsense and you have been attacking me.
Grow up. CLV Matt 5:48 You, then, shall be mature as your heavenly Father is mature. |
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Edited by
Nikolas1990
on
Sat 08/25/18 02:48 PM
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Let's make a distinction here: when Jesus refers to Sheol or the grave he is talking about hell (were the rich man resided and is still residing in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.) After Jesus died on the cross he descended to into the bowels of the earth and freed the captives (those who died with faith in God) from Abraham's Boosom (paradise.) Abrahams's boosom was, at this time, on the other side of the fixed chasm which the rich man could not cross over. After Jesus freed the captives He was resurrected by God and for a short time he and the captives were seen walking around, after which Jesus was taken up into Heaven to prepare a place for us. After this, hell increased according to Isaiah 5:14, as with believers now being taken up into paradise by the Holy Spirit after death instead of descending into the bowels of the earth as they had prior to his death on the cross, there is now more space for the wicked in hell ans therefore hell increased.
Let us be clear about another thing: hell is distinct from the lake of fire which is the second death according to the scriptures. Whereas demons are currently freely to torment people in hell as the executors of God's wrath according to the scriptures, after the great white throne judgement were the wicked will be summoned from hell to be judged at the great white throne judgement, they too, along with the wicked, will all be cast into the lake or fire, were they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. In short: hell is and always has been a holding cell for the souls of the wicked were they are held until the great white throne judgement, after which they are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. God bless |
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Let's make a distinction here: when Jesus refers to Sheol or the grave he is talking about hell (were the rich man resided and is still residing in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.) After Jesus died on the cross he descended to into the bowels of the earth and freed the captives (those who died with faith in God) from Abraham's Boosom (paradise.) Abrahams's boosom was, at this time, on the other side of the fixed chasm which the rich man could not cross over. After Jesus freed the captives He was resurrected by God and for a short time he and the captives were seen walking around, after which Jesus was taken up into Heaven to prepare a place for us. After this, hell increased according to Isaiah 5:14, as with believers now being taken up into paradise by the Holy Spirit after death instead of descending into the bowels of the earth as they had prior to his death on the cross, there is now more space for the wicked in hell ans therefore hell increased. Let us be clear about another thing: hell is distinct from the lake of fire which is the second death according to the scriptures. Whereas demons are currently freely to torment people in hell as the executors of God's wrath according to the scriptures, after the great white throne judgement were the wicked will be summoned from hell to be judged at the great white throne judgement, they too, along with the wicked, will all be cast into the lake or fire, were they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. In short: hell is and always has been a holding cell for the souls of the wicked were they are held until the great white throne judgement, after which they are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. God bless Great post friend and quite accurate. |
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From Nikolas1990 Let's make a distinction here: when Jesus refers to Sheol or the grave he is talking about hell (were the rich man resided and is still residing in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.) After Jesus died on the cross he descended to into the bowels of the earth and freed the captives (those who died with faith in God) from Abraham's Boosom (paradise.) Abrahams's boosom was, at this time, on the other side of the fixed chasm which the rich man could not cross over. There are several problems when taking the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus as literal. see my thread... The Rich Man and Lazarus... Literal or Figurative? After Jesus freed the captives He was resurrected by God and for a short time he and the captives were seen walking around, after which Jesus was taken up into Heaven to prepare a place for us. After this, hell increased according to Isaiah 5:14, as with believers now being taken up into paradise by the Holy Spirit after death instead of descending into the bowels of the earth as they had prior to his death on the cross, there is now more space for the wicked in hell ans therefore hell increased. The problem is, none of this is Scriptural. CLV Isaiah 5:14 Therefore, the unseen widens its greedy soul And gapes with its mouth without limitation; Her effulgence and her throng descend With her tumult and gladness into it. Nothing in this verse about 'sheol' being "hell." the fact is, there is no ancient word in Hebrew or Greek that represents "hell" as we know it. No "eternal" punishment. Let us be clear about another thing: hell is distinct from the lake of fire which is the second death according to the scriptures. Whereas demons are currently freely to torment people in hell as the executors of God's wrath according to the scriptures, after the great white throne judgement were the wicked will be summoned from hell to be judged at the great white throne judgement, they too, along with the wicked, will all be cast into the lake or fire, were they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. In short: hell is and always has been a holding cell for the souls of the wicked were they are held until the great white throne judgement, after which they are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. Again, none of this is Scriptural. There is no ancient term for "hell." Not in ancient Greek. Not in ancient Hebrew. This term did not exist when the Bible was written. Most of the English versions have eliminated the word "hell." Confusing the word "hell" with the Lake of Fire will not help your case. CLV Rev 20:14 And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire. How can "hell" be cast into "hell"? |
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Once again, there is no "hell."
There is no ancient term for "hell." That means it was not translated, rather interpreted. Jesus never used the word "hell." Paul never used it. John never used it. Abraham never used it. David never used it. Solomon never used it. No one in the Bible ever used the word "hell." Sheol - The Jews define this word as... It connotes the place where those that had died were believed to be congregated. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13563-sheol No punishment and no fire. Literally translated it means "unseen." Hades - It is the translation of the word 'sheol.' Unfortunately, it comes with baggage from the Mythology of that time. Literally translated it means "unseen." Gehenna - The Valley of Hinnom. This is a real physical place on Earth. It is a valley or ravine on a sulfur deposit. It was used by the Romans as a garbage dump. Garbage was burned from a fire much hotter than a normal one. It has a sorted history and was used as a "Potter's Field" of sorts. Jesus used it in some of His parables. Tartarus - Used once in 2Peter 2:4, it is translated as "jail," and relates only to angels, not humans. |
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gods Hail hurt when they fall on me I don't know about you I take cover when those kind is around and twisters FORM .as far as hell go ,that word is only from those who proclaim in religion.
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From HOUSE gods Hail hurt when they fall on me I don't know about you I take cover when those kind is around and twisters FORM .as far as hell go ,that word is only from those who proclaim in religion. Christianity is based on Scripture. And since there is no word for "hell" in the Scriptures it seems your religion has taken a wrong turn. |
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I really think this thread is pretty close to being hell.
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Pretty much like this:
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” to be honest, I dont think about the concept much. For me, it is enough to be an eternity separated from God, someplace I would not want to exist. |
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From JustBeHonest I really think this thread is pretty close to being hell. Interesting. What part? the part where I use the Scriptures, instead of making up what it says there? |
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From msharmony Pretty much like this: Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” to be honest, I dont think about the concept much. For me, it is enough to be an eternity separated from God, someplace I would not want to exist. A lake of burning sulfur? You think this is "hell"? The Lake of Fire is mentioned in the Scriptures. As you have not posted what English version you copy this from, I can only guess. At any rate, it seems this version changed the wording somewhat. It should read... CLV Rev 21:8 Yet the timid, and unbelievers, and the abominable, and murderers, and paramours, and enchanters, and idolaters, and all the false--their part is in the lake burning with fire and sulphur, which is the second death." Not every reference to fire is about "hell." But in any version, the word "hell" is not mentioned. |
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From msharmony Pretty much like this: Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” to be honest, I dont think about the concept much. For me, it is enough to be an eternity separated from God, someplace I would not want to exist. A lake of burning sulfur? You think this is "hell"? The Lake of Fire is mentioned in the Scriptures. As you have not posted what English version you copy this from, I can only guess. At any rate, it seems this version changed the wording somewhat. It should read... CLV Rev 21:8 Yet the timid, and unbelievers, and the abominable, and murderers, and paramours, and enchanters, and idolaters, and all the false--their part is in the lake burning with fire and sulphur, which is the second death." Not every reference to fire is about "hell." But in any version, the word "hell" is not mentioned. Yes. I think this is hell, which I thought was the question. the original bible has NONE of the words we are using because it wasnt written in American English, so it is beside the point of what I think Hell is, considering Hell itself is a modern word and not a biblical one, it is an interpretation of other words, or concepts, which is what i included. |
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From JustBeHonest I really think this thread is pretty close to being hell. Interesting. What part? the part where I use the Scriptures, instead of making up what it says there? The part where you quote the scriptures |
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From msharmony Yes. I think this is hell, which I thought was the question. According to YOUR English version "hell" is supposed to be eternal. Do you consider "this" to be eternal? the original bible has NONE of the words we are using because it wasnt written in American English, so it is beside the point of what I think Hell is, considering Hell itself is a modern word and not a biblical one, it is an interpretation of other words, or concepts, which is what i included. I am curious. Where did you think you saw the "original Bible"?  Just a sample. |
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There is no ancient term for "hell." so what words change |
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I cannot continue this discussion. You have provided no Scripture to back up anything you say. Your posts are nonsense and you have been attacking me. Grow up. there is no rule in mingle that you have to back up what you say with scripture, dude |
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From LocalSteven Hell is the world we live in currently... But we do eventually escape this world. According to the myth, in "hell" there is no escape... ever. From BlakeIAM I'm not confused one bit, but clearly you are by your statements. Clearly, you are confused. Perhaps you need to actually read the Bible? But I suggest that you find an English version a bit more accurate than the KJV. The KJV seems to be in the minority when publishing the term "hell.": New International Version because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, you will not let your holy one see decay. New Living Translation For you will not leave my soul among the dead or allow your Holy One to rot in the grave. English Standard Version For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption. Berean Study Bible because You will not abandon my soul to Hades, nor will You let Your Holy One see decay. Berean Literal Bible for You will not abandon my soul into Hades, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see decay. New American Standard Bible BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY. King James Bible Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Holman Christian Standard Bible because You will not leave me in Hades or allow Your Holy One to see decay. International Standard Version For you will not abandon my soul to Hades or allow your Holy One to experience decay. NET Bible because you will not leave my soul in Hades, nor permit your Holy One to experience decay. New Heart English Bible because you will not abandon my soul in Sheol, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay. Aramaic Bible in Plain English “Because you did not leave my Soul in Sheol and you did not give your Pure One to see destruction.” GOD'S WORD® Translation because you do not abandon my soul to the grave or allow your holy one to decay. New American Standard 1977 BECAUSE THOU WILT NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW THY HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY. Jubilee Bible 2000 because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. King James 2000 Bible Because you will not leave my soul in hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see corruption. American King James Version Because you will not leave my soul in hell, neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption. American Standard Version Because thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption. Douay-Rheims Bible Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, nor suffer thy Holy One to see corruption. Darby Bible Translation for thou wilt not leave my soul in hades, nor wilt thou give thy gracious one to see corruption. English Revised Version Because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption. Webster's Bible Translation Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thy Holy One to see corruption: Weymouth New Testament For Thou wilt not leave me in the Unseen World forsaken, nor give up Thy holy One to undergo decay. World English Bible because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay. Young's Literal Translation because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption; these are translations.. people translate differently. What MATTERS is the intent of the authors who we can't ask. So, you can say it can mean this or that or the other thing, but you just dont know. maybe you can PRETEND to know.. but you would have to prove that you really DO know. And without that time machine, you are just guessing. But even if all of the translators were guessing at meaning, it's still just a guess. They do their best. We dont have original documents. Hell could mean you aren't part of the club so they could shun and abuse you. We see this even to this day. People shun one another ... especially religious people. And when they dont shun each other over dogma, they can and do shun atheist who dont believe any of it. They throw the "Book" at us.. and that's nothing but a bunch of words. They maybe think words are magic. |
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[ Christianity is based on Scripture. And since there is no word for "hell" in the Scriptures it seems your religion has taken a wrong turn. Christianity is mostly based on how people INTERPRET scriptue, which is based on how certain people wrote about the religion of the times. It could all be true stories, but probably not. To say that you live your life due to a book is what is wrong with religion. No one book no matter how long or how wise is perfect. Humans wrote the thing, after all. Fallible humans. For all we know they were the terrorists of their times. |
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Once again, there is no "hell." yeah, we know. Heaven and hell are mythical places. It's a pity that maybe two billion people don't know that. |
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