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| Topic: US building & Hurricanes & Tornados | |
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Edited by
SparklingCrystal đź’–đź’Ž
on
Tue 12/13/22 02:23 PM
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Just asking questions out of curiosity, not as judgement.
Since the US is always at risk of hurricanes and tornados I'm wondering about a few things that I always see. - One is, why don't you make powerlines underground, at least in towns/cities etc.? That way you don't have to deal with power cables flying around after a storm, electricity is easily restores, the poles and cables aren't in the way of first responders etc. Plus... you don't have as many power outages either. So why have them above ground when it causes nothing but danger and trouble, and high cost in restoring the whole lot, rebuilding the power grid? Underground you could switch off entirely during the storm, and simply switch on again after the storm, if you'd even needed to switch it off at all. - Why are houses not built better? Why are people in tornado and hurricane prone areas allowed to live in prefab houses or caravans? They blow to pieces like cardboard. Wouldn't brick houses be much safer? I understand this could be about money, but hurricane Ida alone caused 70 billion USD in damage. Government could've built a helluva lot well-built houses for that amount of money, meaning damage in a next storm wouldn't be nearly that high. Why not do that? - Apart from that, a few houses on Grand Isle survived hurricane Ida without damage because they were properly built: elevated on really thick strong beams with diagonal beams in between, which apparently was special but to me seems logical to have a solid constructions. And it had special windows that could handle a lot, storm shutters, and a strong roof. That house had NO damage at all while others were just gone or totalled. Then they said, "But it's expensive", me thinking "Really? A helluva lot cheaper than rebuilding time and again, and losing all your personal belongings on top of that!" Just some things I've been asking myself many times, but I don't live there and don't know all the factors at play. Plus, we don't usually have hurricanes or tornados, and although last year one wreaked havoc in a nearby town, it is still an oddity. So asking out of curiosity, and hoping you people can enlighten me :) |
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So you want to know the story of "The 3 little pigs"? Well the 1st pig built his house out of straw, the 2nd pig built his house out of sticks, and the 3rd pig built his house out of brick. The wolf came along to the 1st house and said open the door or I will huff, n puff, n blow the house down. He blew the 1st house down and that pig ran into the stick house. Again the wolf said I will huff, n puff,n blow the house down which he did. Those 2 pigs ran to the 3rd house made of brick. The wolf said I will huff, n puff, n blow this house down. He blew, n blew, til he was blue in the face and couldn't blow it down. So all the pigs lived happily ever after, or at least til something else killed them.
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So you want to know the story of "The 3 little pigs"? Well the 1st pig built his house out of straw, the 2nd pig built his house out of sticks, and the 3rd pig built his house out of brick. The wolf came along to the 1st house and said open the door or I will huff, n puff, n blow the house down. He blew the 1st house down and that pig ran into the stick house. Again the wolf said I will huff, n puff,n blow the house down which he did. Those 2 pigs ran to the 3rd house made of brick. The wolf said I will huff, n puff, n blow this house down. He blew, n blew, til he was blue in the face and couldn't blow it down. So all the pigs lived happily ever after, or at least til something else killed them. Hey dust, I wonder why them pigs weren’t living in some of them government built houses , they strong like bull….. |
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Cost is a big factor, also age, and the odds of it getting hit. When the twin towers in NY got hit by the airplanes hijacked by terrorist they didn't think they would fall, but the hit from the airplane combined with the burning jet fuel caused the "fire proofing" protecting the metal to be knocked lose and combine all the other burning debris cause the metal structure to melt enough to cause the collapse.
Building codes have changed a lot thru the years but not enough to guaranty that a building will not be lost, and it is not required that older houses be retrofit. The improvements are in anchoring them to the ground and putting metal strapping and braces in them. A brick or concrete house does stand up much better but there are still no guaranty and it can cost 2x, 3x or more to build these compared to a stick built house. Hurricanes are winds 75mph to 150mph sustained depending how strong the storm, but wind gusts can go even higher. But there is also damage caused by the storm surge on the coast along with very large amounts of rain that can move inland and can cause flooding. Water is very heavy and powerful and can cause a lot of damage. Often damage is caused by the blowing debris, if there was no debris the structures would have a much better chance. The good thing about hurricanes is there is warning because it's a slow developing system. Tornados on the other hand pop up fast, many are narrow and only do damage 100ft wide or so, but others can be a mile wide. Much of the US is farm land or other open land so often the tornados don't hit any populated areas, but with more people the more likely it becomes for them to hit a house. Once again it is often the debris that causes the most damage, and it's spinning so it is really good at picking things up. Often times the tornado will lift a roof off even a brick building and the roof is designed to keep the walls from falling in, if one thing is damaged it can lead to failure to other parts. What you call "caravans" are mobile homes or trailer houses built in a factory, not just travel trailers that people camp in, but actual homes people live in. These go down the road at up to 70mph moving from the factory to the home site, so yes they can stand up to a lot. Think about driving your car at 70mph, it can go much faster without any damage. But if you hit something going that fast it gets destroyed, that's why the debris is such a factor. A mobile home can be bought for less than $100k, a stick built home can be built for $150k+ plus the lot to put it on, a brick or concrete house is probably going to start at about $300k plus the lot but can go up very quickly from there. So you really have to force people to think about how they build and what the odds are for getting damage. |
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Edited by
dust4fun
on
Tue 12/13/22 06:28 PM
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So you want to know the story of "The 3 little pigs"? Well the 1st pig built his house out of straw, the 2nd pig built his house out of sticks, and the 3rd pig built his house out of brick. The wolf came along to the 1st house and said open the door or I will huff, n puff, n blow the house down. He blew the 1st house down and that pig ran into the stick house. Again the wolf said I will huff, n puff,n blow the house down which he did. Those 2 pigs ran to the 3rd house made of brick. The wolf said I will huff, n puff, n blow this house down. He blew, n blew, til he was blue in the face and couldn't blow it down. So all the pigs lived happily ever after, or at least til something else killed them. Hey dust, I wonder why them pigs weren’t living in some of them government built houses , they strong like bull…..  I can't remember a big storm hitting the ghetto besides hurricane Katrina hitting New Orleans, and never in my life did I hear such cry babies, they were like help us, give me, give me, give me. They sheltered them in temporary camping trailers and they were sueing over the formaldehyde levels in them, they don't know the meaning of temporary. Any other community gathers together to clean up and rebuild, but 10 years after the hurricane they were still crying that everything was done for them. Back in the day the government built houses on reservations for the Indians and the would peel the siding off and burn it for heat which would soon destroy the whole house. If people are not working towards something, or paying for it themselves they have no pride for it, no respect for it. All the government housing gets trashed and then they call up complaining expecting somebody else to fix what they broke. Often times that is why things are built the way they are, people figure if anything goes wrong insurance will pay for it, why make it your own problem when you can make it somebody else's problem? |
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The answers to all your questions are; money, money, money, money.
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Here in the US if you live in a “ government built”housing you are probably living in a low income housing project. Another name is , the ghetto. . Not sure how your government works but private citizens in this country pay for our housing out of our own pocket. Private contractors design and build houses to meet certain safety standards , depending on the location. To live in government built houses is living in sub-standard conditions . Legal but very frugal, not many of the amenities that most people would have in a home they built. A government built home is not a real safe place to experience a hurricane… as far as burying our electrical and telephone lines in the ground is very expensive. Some places are doing that with fiber optics but with the vast miles and miles of those lines it will take many years and billions of dollars to do so.
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Here in the US if you live in a “ government built”housing you are probably living in a low income housing project. Another name is , the ghetto. . Not sure how your government works but private citizens in this country pay for our housing out of our own pocket. Private contractors design and build houses to meet certain safety standards , depending on the location. To live in government built houses is living in sub-standard conditions . Legal but very frugal, not many of the amenities that most people would have in a home they built. A government built home is not a real safe place to experience a hurricane… as far as burying our electrical and telephone lines in the ground is very expensive. Some places are doing that with fiber optics but with the vast miles and miles of those lines it will take many years and billions of dollars to do so. Really a crying shame that government housing is so bad! I get that it's a bit of an investment to get electricity underground in towns but then if they get knocked over by storms you have to redo the whole lot anyways. And possibly again the next year, and the year after etc. Then it's cheaper to get them underground and be done with it. And also safer in general, and during/after a storm as well. I understand the country is vast, but it could be done in populated areas at least, bit by bit. Anywho, thanks for the feedback! I was just curious and interested and then it's great that I can ask here :) |
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Cost is a big factor, also age, and the odds of it getting hit. When the twin towers in NY got hit by the airplanes hijacked by terrorist they didn't think they would fall, but the hit from the airplane combined with the burning jet fuel caused the "fire proofing" protecting the metal to be knocked lose and combine all the other burning debris cause the metal structure to melt enough to cause the collapse. Building codes have changed a lot thru the years but not enough to guaranty that a building will not be lost, and it is not required that older houses be retrofit. The improvements are in anchoring them to the ground and putting metal strapping and braces in them. A brick or concrete house does stand up much better but there are still no guaranty and it can cost 2x, 3x or more to build these compared to a stick built house. Hurricanes are winds 75mph to 150mph sustained depending how strong the storm, but wind gusts can go even higher. But there is also damage caused by the storm surge on the coast along with very large amounts of rain that can move inland and can cause flooding. Water is very heavy and powerful and can cause a lot of damage. Often damage is caused by the blowing debris, if there was no debris the structures would have a much better chance. The good thing about hurricanes is there is warning because it's a slow developing system. Tornados on the other hand pop up fast, many are narrow and only do damage 100ft wide or so, but others can be a mile wide. Much of the US is farm land or other open land so often the tornados don't hit any populated areas, but with more people the more likely it becomes for them to hit a house. Once again it is often the debris that causes the most damage, and it's spinning so it is really good at picking things up. Often times the tornado will lift a roof off even a brick building and the roof is designed to keep the walls from falling in, if one thing is damaged it can lead to failure to other parts. What you call "caravans" are mobile homes or trailer houses built in a factory, not just travel trailers that people camp in, but actual homes people live in. These go down the road at up to 70mph moving from the factory to the home site, so yes they can stand up to a lot. Think about driving your car at 70mph, it can go much faster without any damage. But if you hit something going that fast it gets destroyed, that's why the debris is such a factor. A mobile home can be bought for less than $100k, a stick built home can be built for $150k+ plus the lot to put it on, a brick or concrete house is probably going to start at about $300k plus the lot but can go up very quickly from there. So you really have to force people to think about how they build and what the odds are for getting damage. Good point with the storm surge/flooding. Brick isn't too handy then, you'd be better of with elevated, on stilts. I get that it's more expensive to do it right, but then I don't get why government doesn't help? I mean, if it now costs billions a year, then better invest that money in making it better so the annual costs go down substantially. And in essence a mobile home would then still be very expensive to buy for people, and then the high chance of it being blown/washed away, leaving you with nothing... Then what? Live in the street? :o I think I'd then rather make my home in another, low-risk area, even if that meant going all the way up to Washington state, hihi. The mobile home thing, we call those "standing caravan" hence me using that word. They're used over here for holidaying, permanently standing at a campsite. You're not allowed to live in them but sometimes people do because of the shortage of council houses / affordable houses. Anyhow, thanks for the feedback! |
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Washington state? Not the safest choice either. They have volcano's, and are due for a big earth quake, or tsunami.
During hurricane Ian there were roads and bridges that were washed out from the storm surge. If those can't withstand a a hurricane I don't see how any house could, of course we are just talking about a long the coast line and that's where a lot of the damage took place. Roads and bridges are very expensive, also the boats that washed on shore were very expensive, and unless you move your boat before the storm (hard to do when they were so far off on predictions) all you can do is hope for the best. What we call "mobile homes" or "manufactured homes" generally get put on a lot and never move again. The newer ones have thicker walls and will stand up better then the old ones. They also run straps into the ground now to keep them anchored, but they do sit about 2 feet off the ground so it's easier for air to get under them, and makes them much more dangerous to be in during a tornado. In most areas they are burying the power lines that are in the neighborhoods because it looks nicer and they don't need to trim the trees. But there are risks of digging or damage in other ways. From the transformer to your house is only 240 volts, the power lines before that are about 17,000 volts, and the great big ones that transfer it long distance can be 100,000 volts. So it may make sense to bury some lines, it could be very dangerous to bury others. The big power lines in California were responsible for some of the huge fires that burned entire towns. Once again it is risk and reward. How much it cost to do it right, verses how much it cost to fix something. Back in the day on big projects they would plan on losing a life for every $100,000 of work done, sometimes they did better, sometimes worse. But there has to be give and take. We could bury our houses to protect them from the wind, but when the floods come they would fill up like swimming pools. |
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Edited by
Bart
on
Wed 12/14/22 07:01 PM
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There could also be a cost for the homeowner getting the lines connected to their house from the main. Many people in the south still have and use wells for their water supply. If you are in the city limits you may have a limited time to connect a water supply for use of city water to your house from the main line , running under the street, and they charge by the foot. This is very expensive for low income or retired people. Especially when you have plenty of good clean water already that cost nothing. I wish our electrical lines were underground . When we get ice storms it only takes about 3/8 of a inch of ice on those lines to bring those suckers down. In an instant 10s of thousands of people can be out of power and some wait weeks to have their power back on…. But it’s not always feasible for such infrastructure. Red tape, lack of funds, the closing of major thoroughfares… and as dust said many obsticales already underground such as wires , pipes, drainage systems… a major undertaking for sure.
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Tornados happen all over the globe.
The U.S., Argentina, and I believe India, have the highest occurrences. The reason why NOTHING makes sense about the U.S., is because the powers that be, aim for the absolute cheapest solutions when it comes to everyday people... And, only after some public embarrassment for inaction, will the leech politicians form a committee, to see if a committee is needed, to put off any remedy until a later time. |
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