The problem we are having is exactly like the problem we are having with personal financial issues, people are living beyond their means.. Our government is living beyond its means and anyone that knows, when you get deep enough in debt...you can't ever get out of it.. Some debt is good, but the 1.3 trillion we were in debt over 8 years is nothing compaired to the debt that we are incurring under the guise of investing in our infrastructure...it is a phoney policy, unnecessarily increasing our national debt way beyond our ability to pay...as people who live beyond their means find out sooner or later..it will all come crashing down. Recovery...right he will bury us with his ideals that do nothing to help us recover..

In my state, U of Washinton is $6,700 dollars a year if you live at home, 19,500 if you live on campus, most community colleges are around 2500 to $3500 dollars a year around here, and most have University campuses either on campus or around town..U of W has 3 branch campuses around the state and I believe that WSU has them around for much less then the university campuses.. I never used government loans or money, but I know that most of them make that available today..

Mirror, where has marxism fourished and blossomed?? I must have missed that... Your assertion that Jesus would be incorrect also, in respect to your assertion that he would be a socailist...Jesus believed that a person should give to the poor, because they were motivated by by belief in him, to give to the tired, hungry and poor...He had nothing to do with marxism or socialism..he rebuked the governments that he stated were controlled by wickedness in high places..

When I started out working while going to Junior High, I was making less then minimum wage.. The difference between me and my friends is that I saved all that I made until I got out of high school...excuse me, I spent $75 dollars to buy a 63 chevy impala( made a year before I was born) in high school and drove it till I graduated from college..I paid for my college by working alot of hours, had many sleepless weekends and struggled to make ends meet.
I didn't buy all the toys my friends had, I saved it to spend it on college..it is about choices not if you can or can't.

Minimum wage is not for people rasing a family, it is for kids working in high school..If they get good grades in school they can go to college and work like I did, it worked for me, it can work for anyone.
I understand that someone in different parts of the country don't have alot of choices, so do like I did, get a couple of friends together and put all your money together and move to where the oppertunities are..nobody said it would be easy, but it is not impossible to do.

Social engineering has never worked, and it won't this time either, but unfortunately we are in so deep that I only see the destruction of our country because of it..What if China called our note and wanted it paid...what would we do??

Our government playing in private business is just screwing up the whole thing, made an unsustainable future with no means to recoupe what we are spending...you can't possibly generate enough in taxes to pay even a portion of it off.

Citibank has the money to pay back the TARP money that it didn't even want, but Obama won't let them pay it back...how come??? because they want the government to control the banks, and if they pay off the money, they can't control them...government can't even balance the budget, or stop spending money, how can we believe that they will fix the current crisis???THEY WON"T!

In 10 years...the debt will be 9 or 10 trillion dollars...that doesn't scare you????

So it is good to strap this mamoth debt..more then all the worlds debt, for what..for government to control private business and to use our tax system to punish those that make more money then they think they should?? Ok it is possible to make an arguement that FDR wasn't a fascist, socialist you cannot deny at the least..any time the government sticks its hands into the private sector, we end up paying for it dearly. I don't have children, but your children are now burdened with a growing...need I say..a far bigger debt then anyone imagined during the bush years. Sure it would have been a bad thing for things to crash...but it wouldn't have lasted longer and wouldn't have burdened our children for a life of slavery to the government... When a fire burns everything to the ground and you have total loss, a funny thing happens soon, life begins to heal itself and regenerates itself..without government help!!

I gotta scoot now, but I enjoyed talking with all of you..till next time.. take care.

Creative, you don't know where we all began at, but we all had the same oppertunities that I had..I grew up and went to school everyday, I worked hard at school and playing sports, I had to work during the summers to make money, I graduated from school and worked hard to go to college and worked during to pay my own way...no body helped me, not the government, not my parents, nobody..O sacrificed alot to improve myself and my situation, and anyone can do that.

I listened to the storys that my father used to talk about, what it was like during the depression and how people struggled and suffered, people died of starvation and sicknesses, many of my fathers family also...so I know what poverty is, I lived it, not as bad as my father did, but it wasn't much better in the early years, and I learned from it, and decided that I would never allow myself to be content with doing less then my best and providing for my family if I had one...

It is all about character and fortitude, if you don't have the desire to pull yourself up and look for a hand up, you will never reach that and always look for a hand out

I agree Jimmy, I didn't agree with the spending then and I don't agree with it then, but spending more now does not make a bad situation better...this was tried when facism was tried during the FDR years..they tried the same programs and all it did is extend the depression.

Lionfish, so now government debt IS good huh??? I guess lowering taxes for those that actually pay them was a good thing huh...

Delsoldamien,

It would be easier for us if you used the quotes.

No, I'm not voting for Fascism. I don't think we'll become a Fascist country either. It's my understanding that some of what's going is temporary.


Sorry, I am not sure how all that stuff works...Have you ever known a governmental program...be it social security,( just to help the ones that fell through the cracks) or anyother entitlement that has been temperary??

I apoligize to you boo, but I was using examples..because there is a push to make animals equal to a human being..which I don't think is good... I believe in taking care of them, but they are not humans..extremes are always used to make points, but it was not my intention to do anything but make and example.80 years ago, many things we do today would never have been talked about much less have a place in our governmental decisions..they may have exsisted, but were not talked about...Gay marriage was not talked about, on the forefront of passing laws about it, because people ideals have changed..who knows what the future holds..what is outrageous today will be acceptable tommorrow...either way..

Thank you winx, I respect you very much. It is hard to talk about these things because of the emotions surrounding politics..I guess that is why they don't like it talked about in the work enviornment..hehehe.. But If I might politely point out...is facism what you were voting for?? Cuz that is what you are getting,,,government controling private businesses and acting like it is still a private business...that is scary..

I am glad that I made myself clear, and sorry for the misunderstanding..Is the answer taking away more of my money to give to those that make less then me??

I agree with you on that daveyB, but there are some who look down their noses at people that don't share their belief...I may not agree with everyone elses ideals, but I believe they have a right to them and do not think less of anyone because of them..I will debate and discuss ideas with those that have differing views then my own, that is what is great about America...

No,,I agreed that they do, I was just saying that most of these raises are not huge raises...entry level jobs that are not minimum wage jobs do get raises..I was talking about the minimum wage jobs that get pennies on the dollar in raises... I wish that nobody was poor, that eveyone could live on their wage that they earn, I do not agree that rasing my taxes is the way to provide them with it.

Creative, why should I subsist on minimum wages..I went to school and got good grades, I stayed in school and went to college..I worked my way through college and graduated.. I have worked many hours improving my skills and building for my future...anyone can do that...
The poor in America live much better then the poor in 90% of the rest of the world...yeah...we have it bad alright.

I have said that she should not support him if this is his belief, I thought all who read my statements could understand that..what I am talking about is holding one up for scrutiny and at the same time not looking onto or acknowledging others that do the same thing.. Talk about picking and choosing??? I think you need to look into the mirror about that...

The running of each institution should be kept separate, and neither should dabble in each others business...but to imply that religous influence can be removed and kept separate from elections and governmental decisions is kinda nieve... There will always be influences, on different sides of the specturm...running each separate is easy, but you cannot remove influences just as you cannot establish a moral value that is agreed upon by all.

Lynn, I am not above any discussion, or simple or complicated discussions...everything is relevent..

The top 10 % also pay property taxes, sales taxes and real estate taxes, and because we make more, in some states we pay income taxes..luxury taxes..I pay taxes on my irrigation system to water my lawn, taxes to have a home burgler alarm, taxes for local levies..

10% is not the equal amount as the CD player as to the CD..

A person that makes 20,000 a year if they paid taxes for federal taxes..would pay what, 2,ooo dollars a year is 198.00 dollars a month, a person who makes 200,000 dollars a year pays 1999.98 dollars a month, and that is just federal income taxes...

Right now including state taxes, consumer taxes, federal income taxes...they take away about 55 to 65% of their wages...low income people don't pay near that percentage of their income.