Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: How Religion Is Killing Our Most Vulnerable Youth
Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Mon 10/18/10 12:26 PM Edited by Redykeulous on Mon 10/18/10 12:42 PM
Shall I predict that no evidence will be presented to show the correlation with religion? Correlations: An examination of events which highly correlate the so-called Religious Right organizations to Christian values which have created an oppressive and dangerous environment for the youth of today. Let me begin with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXAQKuBwESc Sarah Silverman – Message To America – On Gay Suicide. Dear, America. When you tell Gay Americans that they can’t serve their country openly, or marry the person that they love, your telling that to kids too. Don’t be ‘f….ingshocked and wonder where all these bullies are coming from that are torching young kids and driving them to kill themselves because they’re different. They learned it from watching you. NOM - National Organization for Marriage Gathering Storm TV Ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp76ly2_NoI MAGGIE GALLAGHER FOUNDED NOM IN 2007 In a book entitled “The Abolition of Marriage,” Gallagher equates same-sex marriage with adultery: “…American family law has been rewritten to dilute both the right and the obligations of marriage, while at the same time placing other relationships, from adulterous liaisons to homosexual partnerships, on a legal par with marriage…” June 15, 1998 – Senate Majority Leader, Trent Lott in an interview with radio talk show host Armstrong Williams After answering the question of homosexuality being a sin, Lott said Yeah it is. You should still love that person. You should not try to mistreat them or treat them as outcasts. You should try to show them a way to deal with that problem, just like alcohol, sex addiction, or kleptomanics. There are all kinds of problems, addictions, difficulties, experiences of things that are wrong, but you should try to work with that person to learn to control that problem… The “problem” is inequality, not an addiction, not a disease, or a mental illness. But it is publicized widely in demeaning ways that homosexuality is a ‘problem’ something to be CURED – and a huge religiously funded public campaign promoting so-called "reparative therapy" flooded the media, churches and communities and continues 12 years later. – Can ya feel the love? Also 1998 – Dr. Robert Garofalo, a Boston pediatrician who authored a health study of gay teens last spring, complained to the Boston Globe that the recent ad campaign, was "a complete misrepresentation" of his research on substance abuse and other high-risk behavior. Garofalo told the Globe he believes the disproportionate risk of gay youth for substance abuse and suicide are the result of alienation gay teenagers face in a "culture that is often unaccepting." Religious Right groups attributed the problems to homosexuality itself, which Garofalo calls "the complete opposite conclusion of what the paper actually concluded." An intentional misrepresentation of studies and research has been rampant by church authorities and powerful anti-gay Christian groups. Although the unethical and immoral messages are openly disputed by those whose work has been plagiarized, that is never what Christians remember. The misinformation is continually regurgitating by ‘Christians’ as authoritative support for their prejudicial views, long after its falsehood is proven. The more widely this misinformation is used and promoted by church authorities, the greater the belief that prejudice and discrimination are not only warranted by Christians but a requirement of their doctrine. In 1998 - Christians falsely,and knowing better, “ equated homosexuality with pedophilia. The Family Research Council's Bob Knight falsely asserted that the Employment Non Discrimination Act would extend legal protections to pedophiles. Parents are told that gays and lesbians are out to molest their children. Gay rights groups are falsely accused of supporting legalization of pedophilia, when in fact every major gay organization denounces it as criminal. "...one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf <<<< >>>"homosexuals are included in a list of sinners, who, if unrepentant, will not inherit the kingdom of God." - Family Research Council press release about Matt Shepard's funeral, on the day of the funeral, October 16, 1998, http://www.frc.org/press/101698.html. The release implied that a gay person who had not yet become, or tried to become, an "ex-gay" was "unrepentant."<<<< >>>"Homosexuals have never been forced to sit in the back of the bus. They are as privileged a group as any. To compare their attempts to affirm deviant sexual conduct to the legitimate discrimination claims of true minorities is a sham," said FRC Director of Cultural Studies Robert H. Knight - FRC's CultureFacts, July 28, 1999, http://www.frc.org/culture/cu99g4.html<<< >>>"homosexual behavior is extremely unhealthy, contributing to the spread of AIDS, hepatitis A, B and C and other sexually transmitted diseases….A study of more than 6,400 obituaries in homosexual publications reveals that homosexuals typically have far shorter life spans than the general population. Other reports indicate that homosexuals are more likely to have drug and alcohol abuse problems. It is unfair to force businesses to pay the extra insurance expense and lost productivity that inevitably results from homosexual behavior." [Editors note: the source for this "research" is the discredited Dr. Paul Cameron - see below for extensive information about his extreme beliefs] - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, testifying at ENDA Hearings, July 29, 1994 - committee on Labor and Human Resources, US Senate. Christians today still quote from totally discredited Cameron who even lost his standing with American Psychological Association and his reputation among his peers. A host of Religious Right leaders, including D. James Kennedy, Gary Bauer, James Dobson (Focus on the Family), Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America), Don Wildmon (American Family Association), and Richard Land (Southern Baptists) signed an open letter, printed as a newspaper ad, attacking American Airlines. Gary Bauer's claim that the airline's anti-discrimination policies somehow actively promoted discrimination against religious employees were so ridiculous that the airline's own Christian employees' organization disavowed it. American Airlines officials met with Religious Right leaders but rejected demands that they discontinue marketing to the gay community. Poisonous message In 1997 the Religious Right acted as the single, loudest voice promoting intolerance against gays and lesbians. Religious Right leaders like Pat Robertson (Christian Coalition Founder), Gary Bauer (Family Research Council), Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America), and Jerry Falwell used all the pulpits available to them – including TV, radio, direct mail, and the internet – to spread the poisonous message that hatred of gays and lesbians is not only acceptable, it is required of "godly" people. The Christian Coalition's Randy Tate contributed to the major Christian campaign which continues to embrace the message of “love the sinner, hate the sin”. This campaign message of, ‘love’ but not accept thy neighbor, found refuge with huge portions of Christians who were suffering the effects of cognitive dissonance from previous hate message campaigns. The wide acceptance by Christians emulates to near perfection how church authorities manipulate the masses. Exemplified in the quote below is representation of how ‘love’ and ‘compassion’ can be turned into acceptance and enforcement of discriminatory policy. "I think that as Americans, and particularly as a person of faith, that we need to extend Christian charity to all individuals. That doesn't mean in the public policy realm that we need to extend special privileges to individuals based on their private sexual behavior." — Hardball with Chris Matthews, August 11, 1998 http://www.cwfa.org/articles/19257/MEDIA/family/index.htm Prop 8 Case strikes at the heart of democracy 2010 “Citizens of California voted to uphold marriage because they understood the sacred nature of marriage and that homosexual activists use same-sex ‘marriage’ as a political juggernaut to indoctrinate young children in schools to reject their parent’s values and to harass, sue and punish people who disagree. NOTE OF REFERENCES: I tried to make sure anything other than my own words were placed in quotes and in-text citations privided. If a quote is lacking citation it was one of several that were retrieved from the following: http://www.pfaw.org/media-center/publications/anti-gay-politics-and-the-religious-right Anti-Gay Politics and the Religious Right. A Report by the People For the American Way Foundation I end where I bagan, with what Sarah said so well. Sarah Silverman – Message To America – On Gay Suicide. Dear, America. When you tell Gay Americans that they can’t serve their country openly, or marry the person that they love, your telling that to kids too. Don’t be ‘f….ingshocked and wonder where all these bullies are coming from that are torching young kids and driving them to kill themselves because they’re different. They learned it from watching you. Ahhh,Red. I know you mean well, but you missed the point of my post entirely. I really didn't think that my words were that clouded, unless one takes them out of context or paraphrases. MiddleEarthling's OP only "supported" his already biggoted viewpoint in his mind. There still has been no correlation established between those reported suicides and Religion. Would you have used his quoted source in support of the topic if you read this statement??? "And if he was straight he likely wouldn't have contemplated -- not to mention successfully accomplished -- his own suicide by jumping off the George Washington Bridge." This isn't the first time he's done this either. Now I'm afraid you spoon-fed a bible-thumping Atheist information that may promote his anti-religion bigotry, while not encouraging him to think for himself. But then again, that may be your agenda too.... I certainly may have misread, it was quite late when I read though this thread and I apologize if you or anyone here felt my post was a direct accusation on any single individual in these threads. I was just attempting to address with facts, what I thought was the subject. Hoewever, I hope that those who read it can see a broader message about group think and about 'community'. That community which creates the BEST environment for children and adults is a community in which every member is equally valued for their contribution and their character and not based on what a moral directive that a self-proclaimed authority figure has decided it should mean. No I would not have used the source in the OP. But I still agree with at least one message it brings - that there IS correlation between the suicide rate of kids, especially homosexuals and religion. Those who will say that bullying has always gone on, that all kids are bullied, it's a part of life you learn to deal with it, are making excuses. And furthermore, when you hear the verbalizations of kids bullying suspected or known homosexual kids, it is not because it part of some "acceptible" normal ritual rather, it comes from the discrimination they see around them. Also, I can't imagine why any person in their right mind would 'accept' their child beeing tortured, harrassed, and bullied for years and say to the kid - "it's ok, it happens, you'll get over it." But listen to those same people sing a different story when that bullying comes from GANG affilation. How do they think gangs get started? It's difficult in a forum, such as this, to demonstrate completely the connection. There is 30 years of history from which my conclusions where made, I only went back to 1990's and I only gave a tiny sample of the support behind my opinion.

the_one_for_u Joined Wed 09/29/10 Posts: 521	Mon 10/18/10 01:04 PM
yeeeeaaaaaa

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Mon 10/18/10 01:53 PM
people will be ill people will have trouble dealing with their differences and how they relate to the world the mentally ill are also stigmatized and not permitted entry into the military but I wouldnt suggest that those who kill themself do so simply because of the stigma and I wouldnt suggest that the guidelines for entry be changed because some are ill enough to take their life over it different guidelines are in place because we are in fact DIFFERENT in areas that count enough to call for guidelines in certain areas (like we have female and male bathrooms for the different anatomy of MALES and FEMALES, and there are some things that single parents qualify for that married couples or singles without children do not) these differences have nothing to do with being better or worse, just DIFFERENT,,,,Im not gonna kill myself anytime soon because I am on assistance, yet that is stigmatized by others I have learned , as others must that regardless of whether people talk about me or whether I have differences that made me not able to join the boy scouts, that didnt make those differences cause for an assumption that I am any less than anyone else,,, I think its most likely to associate depression and other coping deficiencies with the choice for suicide rather than religion,,,as the MAJORITY of gay , or promiscuous, or virgin (or other socially stigmatized groups) dont resolve the teenage taunts they receive with suicide and if one is to point to a correlation between religious belief and suicides that gay teens are committing, why wouldnt that same one correlate all the GOOD things teens are doing to religious teachings as well why is the argument so one sided and religios belief highlighted by some as predominately or only a catalyst for bad things and therefore deserving of being abolished, when it is so much more prevalant and likely for religious belief to be the catalyst for good ,,,, people will be ill people will have trouble dealing with their differences and how they relate to the world Very true, and when your world of peers is filled with people telling you that you are evil, sick, a faggot who should just die, harassing & beating you up, demeaning you in front of others and making threats on you safety, and then you go home and see adults on the news saying the same thing - how would you expect that person to relate to the world at the age of 9 or 11 or 13? When there is no one to turn to for help, no one to talk with about how you feel, and your life is filled with guilt and self-hate and fear – how would you expect that person to relate to the world? the mentally ill are also stigmatized and not permitted entry into the military but I wouldnt suggest that those who kill themself do so simply because of the stigma and I wouldnt suggest that the guidelines for entry be changed because some are ill enough to take their life over it I was not specifically addressing the issue of DADT, I was referencing it in terms of how kids learn to bully and the behavior that those who are bullied see in the adults around them and through the media. Whether you are gay, questioning, or have simply been labeled so, you look around and perhaps you think, life is not worth it, I can’t keep doing this. Remember I am discussing children and those college students who have not experienced life outside some kind of formal or family structure. different guidelines are in place because we are in fact DIFFERENT in areas that count enough to call for guidelines in certain areas (like we have female and male bathrooms for the different anatomy of MALES and FEMALES, and there are some things that single parents qualify for that married couples or singles without children do not) these differences have nothing to do with being better or worse, just DIFFERENT,,,,Im not gonna kill myself anytime soon because I am on assistance, yet that is stigmatized by others You are imagining yourself in some kind of situation and attributing how YOU would react or respond onto others in that situation which you can only imagine as pertains to your experiences. Is it not possible for kids to be bullied into feeling their situation is hopeless, to feel isolated, helpless, and worthless? How could you imagine what you would do in that kids place when all you know about that kid comes from a couple paragraphs in a newspaper? As you said we all experience the world around us differently but do you really understand WHY we all experience things differently? Can you really imagine yourself in the place of one of those kids – would you not be imagining YOU and not the kid? I have learned , as others must that regardless of whether people talk about me or whether I have differences that made me not able to join the boy scouts, that didnt make those differences cause for an assumption that I am any less than anyone else,,, Have you read about the kind of bullying that is going on? I think you are proceeding with an inaccurate description and understanding of what’s being discussed. It might be that you have not read, in depth, about the cases of suicides being related to bullying. I know the news is full of the recent ones, in the last couple months, but it might help you understand better to look up some older cases which have been thoroughly covered and reported. We’re not just talking about kids slinging words at each other on a playground. In fact, if you hear what some of these 9 to 11 year olds are saying and doing, it’s really shocking. We have to wonder, where is that coming from? I think its most likely to associate depression and other coping deficiencies with the choice for suicide rather than religion,,,as the MAJORITY of gay , or promiscuous, or virgin (or other socially stigmatized groups) dont resolve the teenage taunts they receive with suicide I can’t respond to this because it’s coming from misconceptions, possibly related to a lack of information. and if one is to point to a correlation between religious belief and suicides that gay teens are committing, why wouldnt that same one correlate all the GOOD things teens are doing to religious teachings as well ARE YOU KIDDING? Would that make it all better if the kids being tortured were told – but they’re not all bad? We’re talking about the world as they see it, as they live it, not based on your perceptions. Most of these young kids don’t even recognize or understand why homosexuality is such a bad thing, or who is claiming it is and those who do know where that comes from – will tell you “it’s in the Bible”. And that’s all they know, so where do you think they learned THAT from? why is the argument so one sided and religios belief highlighted by some as predominately or only a catalyst for bad things and therefore deserving of being abolished when it is so much more prevalant and likely for religious belief to be the catalyst for good ,,,, Msharmony, please do some research about the topic of bullying in schools and about those who have been labeled or identified as homosexual are going through. Of course it’s not just bullying of those perceived to be homosexual that occurs, it’s just that where homosexuality is the target in schools it seems to have been influenced by religious propaganda.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 10/18/10 03:52 PM
people will be ill people will have trouble dealing with their differences and how they relate to the world the mentally ill are also stigmatized and not permitted entry into the military but I wouldnt suggest that those who kill themself do so simply because of the stigma and I wouldnt suggest that the guidelines for entry be changed because some are ill enough to take their life over it different guidelines are in place because we are in fact DIFFERENT in areas that count enough to call for guidelines in certain areas (like we have female and male bathrooms for the different anatomy of MALES and FEMALES, and there are some things that single parents qualify for that married couples or singles without children do not) these differences have nothing to do with being better or worse, just DIFFERENT,,,,Im not gonna kill myself anytime soon because I am on assistance, yet that is stigmatized by others I have learned , as others must that regardless of whether people talk about me or whether I have differences that made me not able to join the boy scouts, that didnt make those differences cause for an assumption that I am any less than anyone else,,, I think its most likely to associate depression and other coping deficiencies with the choice for suicide rather than religion,,,as the MAJORITY of gay , or promiscuous, or virgin (or other socially stigmatized groups) dont resolve the teenage taunts they receive with suicide and if one is to point to a correlation between religious belief and suicides that gay teens are committing, why wouldnt that same one correlate all the GOOD things teens are doing to religious teachings as well why is the argument so one sided and religios belief highlighted by some as predominately or only a catalyst for bad things and therefore deserving of being abolished, when it is so much more prevalant and likely for religious belief to be the catalyst for good ,,,, people will be ill people will have trouble dealing with their differences and how they relate to the world Very true, and when your world of peers is filled with people telling you that you are evil, sick, a faggot who should just die, harassing & beating you up, demeaning you in front of others and making threats on you safety, and then you go home and see adults on the news saying the same thing - how would you expect that person to relate to the world at the age of 9 or 11 or 13? When there is no one to turn to for help, no one to talk with about how you feel, and your life is filled with guilt and self-hate and fear – how would you expect that person to relate to the world? the mentally ill are also stigmatized and not permitted entry into the military but I wouldnt suggest that those who kill themself do so simply because of the stigma and I wouldnt suggest that the guidelines for entry be changed because some are ill enough to take their life over it I was not specifically addressing the issue of DADT, I was referencing it in terms of how kids learn to bully and the behavior that those who are bullied see in the adults around them and through the media. Whether you are gay, questioning, or have simply been labeled so, you look around and perhaps you think, life is not worth it, I can’t keep doing this. Remember I am discussing children and those college students who have not experienced life outside some kind of formal or family structure. different guidelines are in place because we are in fact DIFFERENT in areas that count enough to call for guidelines in certain areas (like we have female and male bathrooms for the different anatomy of MALES and FEMALES, and there are some things that single parents qualify for that married couples or singles without children do not) these differences have nothing to do with being better or worse, just DIFFERENT,,,,Im not gonna kill myself anytime soon because I am on assistance, yet that is stigmatized by others You are imagining yourself in some kind of situation and attributing how YOU would react or respond onto others in that situation which you can only imagine as pertains to your experiences. Is it not possible for kids to be bullied into feeling their situation is hopeless, to feel isolated, helpless, and worthless? How could you imagine what you would do in that kids place when all you know about that kid comes from a couple paragraphs in a newspaper? As you said we all experience the world around us differently but do you really understand WHY we all experience things differently? Can you really imagine yourself in the place of one of those kids – would you not be imagining YOU and not the kid? I have learned , as others must that regardless of whether people talk about me or whether I have differences that made me not able to join the boy scouts, that didnt make those differences cause for an assumption that I am any less than anyone else,,, Have you read about the kind of bullying that is going on? I think you are proceeding with an inaccurate description and understanding of what’s being discussed. It might be that you have not read, in depth, about the cases of suicides being related to bullying. I know the news is full of the recent ones, in the last couple months, but it might help you understand better to look up some older cases which have been thoroughly covered and reported. We’re not just talking about kids slinging words at each other on a playground. In fact, if you hear what some of these 9 to 11 year olds are saying and doing, it’s really shocking. We have to wonder, where is that coming from? I think its most likely to associate depression and other coping deficiencies with the choice for suicide rather than religion,,,as the MAJORITY of gay , or promiscuous, or virgin (or other socially stigmatized groups) dont resolve the teenage taunts they receive with suicide I can’t respond to this because it’s coming from misconceptions, possibly related to a lack of information. and if one is to point to a correlation between religious belief and suicides that gay teens are committing, why wouldnt that same one correlate all the GOOD things teens are doing to religious teachings as well ARE YOU KIDDING? Would that make it all better if the kids being tortured were told – but they’re not all bad? We’re talking about the world as they see it, as they live it, not based on your perceptions. Most of these young kids don’t even recognize or understand why homosexuality is such a bad thing, or who is claiming it is and those who do know where that comes from – will tell you “it’s in the Bible”. And that’s all they know, so where do you think they learned THAT from? why is the argument so one sided and religios belief highlighted by some as predominately or only a catalyst for bad things and therefore deserving of being abolished when it is so much more prevalant and likely for religious belief to be the catalyst for good ,,,, Msharmony, please do some research about the topic of bullying in schools and about those who have been labeled or identified as homosexual are going through. Of course it’s not just bullying of those perceived to be homosexual that occurs, it’s just that where homosexuality is the target in schools it seems to have been influenced by religious propaganda. where is the research thats going to PROVE that a majority of any type of bullying is due to religious propoganda,,,is there a study showing that those doing the bullying regularly attend church or read their bible or watch christian television? I would highly doubt it. I am completely serious when I say equating a choice for suicide with bullying DUE to religious propoganda is the easy scapegoat which totally ignores a CULTURE (of religious and non) where freedom of expression is encouraged and promoted and where INSENSITIVITY to others rarely has a stigma attached anymore people LOVE to see others hurt, that is cultural and not religious the tabloids dont sell because of religion, they sell because people love to see and spread dirt,,,,

MiddleEarthling Joined Tue 08/18/09 Posts: 1911	Mon 10/18/10 04:29 PM Edited by MiddleEarthling on Mon 10/18/10 04:30 PM
Shall I predict that no evidence will be presented to show the correlation with religion? Correlations: An examination of events which highly correlate the so-called Religious Right organizations to Christian values which have created an oppressive and dangerous environment for the youth of today. Let me begin with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXAQKuBwESc Sarah Silverman – Message To America – On Gay Suicide. Dear, America. When you tell Gay Americans that they can’t serve their country openly, or marry the person that they love, your telling that to kids too. Don’t be ‘f….ingshocked and wonder where all these bullies are coming from that are torching young kids and driving them to kill themselves because they’re different. They learned it from watching you. NOM - National Organization for Marriage Gathering Storm TV Ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp76ly2_NoI MAGGIE GALLAGHER FOUNDED NOM IN 2007 In a book entitled “The Abolition of Marriage,” Gallagher equates same-sex marriage with adultery: “…American family law has been rewritten to dilute both the right and the obligations of marriage, while at the same time placing other relationships, from adulterous liaisons to homosexual partnerships, on a legal par with marriage…” June 15, 1998 – Senate Majority Leader, Trent Lott in an interview with radio talk show host Armstrong Williams After answering the question of homosexuality being a sin, Lott said Yeah it is. You should still love that person. You should not try to mistreat them or treat them as outcasts. You should try to show them a way to deal with that problem, just like alcohol, sex addiction, or kleptomanics. There are all kinds of problems, addictions, difficulties, experiences of things that are wrong, but you should try to work with that person to learn to control that problem… The “problem” is inequality, not an addiction, not a disease, or a mental illness. But it is publicized widely in demeaning ways that homosexuality is a ‘problem’ something to be CURED – and a huge religiously funded public campaign promoting so-called "reparative therapy" flooded the media, churches and communities and continues 12 years later. – Can ya feel the love? Also 1998 – Dr. Robert Garofalo, a Boston pediatrician who authored a health study of gay teens last spring, complained to the Boston Globe that the recent ad campaign, was "a complete misrepresentation" of his research on substance abuse and other high-risk behavior. Garofalo told the Globe he believes the disproportionate risk of gay youth for substance abuse and suicide are the result of alienation gay teenagers face in a "culture that is often unaccepting." Religious Right groups attributed the problems to homosexuality itself, which Garofalo calls "the complete opposite conclusion of what the paper actually concluded." An intentional misrepresentation of studies and research has been rampant by church authorities and powerful anti-gay Christian groups. Although the unethical and immoral messages are openly disputed by those whose work has been plagiarized, that is never what Christians remember. The misinformation is continually regurgitating by ‘Christians’ as authoritative support for their prejudicial views, long after its falsehood is proven. The more widely this misinformation is used and promoted by church authorities, the greater the belief that prejudice and discrimination are not only warranted by Christians but a requirement of their doctrine. In 1998 - Christians falsely,and knowing better, “ equated homosexuality with pedophilia. The Family Research Council's Bob Knight falsely asserted that the Employment Non Discrimination Act would extend legal protections to pedophiles. Parents are told that gays and lesbians are out to molest their children. Gay rights groups are falsely accused of supporting legalization of pedophilia, when in fact every major gay organization denounces it as criminal. "...one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf <<<< >>>"homosexuals are included in a list of sinners, who, if unrepentant, will not inherit the kingdom of God." - Family Research Council press release about Matt Shepard's funeral, on the day of the funeral, October 16, 1998, http://www.frc.org/press/101698.html. The release implied that a gay person who had not yet become, or tried to become, an "ex-gay" was "unrepentant."<<<< >>>"Homosexuals have never been forced to sit in the back of the bus. They are as privileged a group as any. To compare their attempts to affirm deviant sexual conduct to the legitimate discrimination claims of true minorities is a sham," said FRC Director of Cultural Studies Robert H. Knight - FRC's CultureFacts, July 28, 1999, http://www.frc.org/culture/cu99g4.html<<< >>>"homosexual behavior is extremely unhealthy, contributing to the spread of AIDS, hepatitis A, B and C and other sexually transmitted diseases….A study of more than 6,400 obituaries in homosexual publications reveals that homosexuals typically have far shorter life spans than the general population. Other reports indicate that homosexuals are more likely to have drug and alcohol abuse problems. It is unfair to force businesses to pay the extra insurance expense and lost productivity that inevitably results from homosexual behavior." [Editors note: the source for this "research" is the discredited Dr. Paul Cameron - see below for extensive information about his extreme beliefs] - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, testifying at ENDA Hearings, July 29, 1994 - committee on Labor and Human Resources, US Senate. Christians today still quote from totally discredited Cameron who even lost his standing with American Psychological Association and his reputation among his peers. A host of Religious Right leaders, including D. James Kennedy, Gary Bauer, James Dobson (Focus on the Family), Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America), Don Wildmon (American Family Association), and Richard Land (Southern Baptists) signed an open letter, printed as a newspaper ad, attacking American Airlines. Gary Bauer's claim that the airline's anti-discrimination policies somehow actively promoted discrimination against religious employees were so ridiculous that the airline's own Christian employees' organization disavowed it. American Airlines officials met with Religious Right leaders but rejected demands that they discontinue marketing to the gay community. Poisonous message In 1997 the Religious Right acted as the single, loudest voice promoting intolerance against gays and lesbians. Religious Right leaders like Pat Robertson (Christian Coalition Founder), Gary Bauer (Family Research Council), Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America), and Jerry Falwell used all the pulpits available to them – including TV, radio, direct mail, and the internet – to spread the poisonous message that hatred of gays and lesbians is not only acceptable, it is required of "godly" people. The Christian Coalition's Randy Tate contributed to the major Christian campaign which continues to embrace the message of “love the sinner, hate the sin”. This campaign message of, ‘love’ but not accept thy neighbor, found refuge with huge portions of Christians who were suffering the effects of cognitive dissonance from previous hate message campaigns. The wide acceptance by Christians emulates to near perfection how church authorities manipulate the masses. Exemplified in the quote below is representation of how ‘love’ and ‘compassion’ can be turned into acceptance and enforcement of discriminatory policy. "I think that as Americans, and particularly as a person of faith, that we need to extend Christian charity to all individuals. That doesn't mean in the public policy realm that we need to extend special privileges to individuals based on their private sexual behavior." — Hardball with Chris Matthews, August 11, 1998 http://www.cwfa.org/articles/19257/MEDIA/family/index.htm Prop 8 Case strikes at the heart of democracy 2010 “Citizens of California voted to uphold marriage because they understood the sacred nature of marriage and that homosexual activists use same-sex ‘marriage’ as a political juggernaut to indoctrinate young children in schools to reject their parent’s values and to harass, sue and punish people who disagree. NOTE OF REFERENCES: I tried to make sure anything other than my own words were placed in quotes and in-text citations privided. If a quote is lacking citation it was one of several that were retrieved from the following: http://www.pfaw.org/media-center/publications/anti-gay-politics-and-the-religious-right Anti-Gay Politics and the Religious Right. A Report by the People For the American Way Foundation I end where I bagan, with what Sarah said so well. Sarah Silverman – Message To America – On Gay Suicide. Dear, America. When you tell Gay Americans that they can’t serve their country openly, or marry the person that they love, your telling that to kids too. Don’t be ‘f….ingshocked and wonder where all these bullies are coming from that are torching young kids and driving them to kill themselves because they’re different. They learned it from watching you. Excellent!, even incredible post Redy - I really like when people link references to support their views...something lacking here. One you posted is further proof of what we are saying: (great find) The replies from people lamely defending HATE are easy to read and ignore, no substance...it's SSDD with these brainwashed hateful morons, but since maybe just maybe some Christians will realize the harm they have caused and stop supporting their leader's hate agendas. (GOPer and T-baggers) I heard Andrew Sullivan on NPR yesterday saying that the GOP "conservatives" are not a party he can relate with anymore..said, "they're religious idealogues"...incredible for him to say this... Anyway: "Anti-Gay Politics and the Religious Right. A Report by the People For the American Way Foundation" http://www.pfaw.org/media-center/publications/anti-gay-politics-and-the-religious-right THE MEMOs "Introduction The recent highly publicized ad campaign by a coalition of fifteen Religious Right organizations is the latest tactical ploy in a long-term political strategy of vilification and political marginalization of gay and lesbian Americans. Far from the campaign of compassion that Religious Right leaders have portrayed, the recent ads further an explicit political agenda that seeks to criminalize gay relationships and deny basic rights to gays and lesbians in a range of critical areas:employment, housing, and families. Anti-gay politics have long been at the core of Religious Right fundraising and organizing efforts. As the Religious Right becomes an increasingly powerful element of the GOP base, anti-gay rhetoric and policies have become more prominent in party platforms, legislative fights, and public policy at local, state, and national levels. Republican Party leaders risk being caught between public support for equal rights for gays and lesbians and the unremitting hostility toward gay rights from Religious Right groups that form the party's core activist base. Congressional leaders' willingness to embrace anti-gay rhetoric and legislation may be part of a strategy to energize Religious Right voters for the fall congressional elections, and it may reflect the longer term impact of the Religious Right's growing strength within the party. Nevertheless, some GOP leaders are concerned that the party's close identification with anti-gay bigotry may cost it support among the general public in the year 2000. This memo briefly analyzes elements of the Religious Right's broader anti-gay political strategy; our staff can provide in-depth information on any of these topics. People For the American Way Foundation has monitored the Religious Right political movement and its attacks on gays and lesbians for nearly two decades. The Andrew Heiskell National Resource Library, which is open to researchers and journalists, has catalogued a wealth of original source material, including Religious Right groups' direct mail and television and radio broadcasts. In addition, People For the American Way Foundation publishes an annual report called Hostile Climate, which extensively documents incidents of institutionalized anti-gay bigotry and discrimination from around the country" More...much much more... http://www.pfaw.org/media-center/publications/anti-gay-politics-and-the-religious-right

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 10/18/10 06:26 PM Edited by msharmony on Mon 10/18/10 06:27 PM
I support religion, I dont support terrorist behavior for any reason although I do see even those labeled as terrorist as humans first. My only wish is that people learn to seperate a religion from the actions of individuals (a minority of individuals) within it just as I hope the world wouldnt view AMERICANS by the actions of those they see in their media most people just want to get through life, whatever their religious belief or non belief, and most who would hurt others dont have to search too far to find 'justifications' for doing so whether it be their religious, political, or personal beliefs

Thomas3474 Joined Mon 11/10/08 Posts: 2713	Mon 10/18/10 06:59 PM
Shall I predict that no evidence will be presented to show the correlation with religion? Correlations: An examination of events which highly correlate the so-called Religious Right organizations to Christian values which have created an oppressive and dangerous environment for the youth of today. Let me begin with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXAQKuBwESc Sarah Silverman – Message To America – On Gay Suicide. Dear, America. When you tell Gay Americans that they can’t serve their country openly, or marry the person that they love, your telling that to kids too. Don’t be ‘f….ingshocked and wonder where all these bullies are coming from that are torching young kids and driving them to kill themselves because they’re different. They learned it from watching you. NOM - National Organization for Marriage Gathering Storm TV Ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp76ly2_NoI MAGGIE GALLAGHER FOUNDED NOM IN 2007 In a book entitled “The Abolition of Marriage,” Gallagher equates same-sex marriage with adultery: “…American family law has been rewritten to dilute both the right and the obligations of marriage, while at the same time placing other relationships, from adulterous liaisons to homosexual partnerships, on a legal par with marriage…” June 15, 1998 – Senate Majority Leader, Trent Lott in an interview with radio talk show host Armstrong Williams After answering the question of homosexuality being a sin, Lott said Yeah it is. You should still love that person. You should not try to mistreat them or treat them as outcasts. You should try to show them a way to deal with that problem, just like alcohol, sex addiction, or kleptomanics. There are all kinds of problems, addictions, difficulties, experiences of things that are wrong, but you should try to work with that person to learn to control that problem… The “problem” is inequality, not an addiction, not a disease, or a mental illness. But it is publicized widely in demeaning ways that homosexuality is a ‘problem’ something to be CURED – and a huge religiously funded public campaign promoting so-called "reparative therapy" flooded the media, churches and communities and continues 12 years later. – Can ya feel the love? Also 1998 – Dr. Robert Garofalo, a Boston pediatrician who authored a health study of gay teens last spring, complained to the Boston Globe that the recent ad campaign, was "a complete misrepresentation" of his research on substance abuse and other high-risk behavior. Garofalo told the Globe he believes the disproportionate risk of gay youth for substance abuse and suicide are the result of alienation gay teenagers face in a "culture that is often unaccepting." Religious Right groups attributed the problems to homosexuality itself, which Garofalo calls "the complete opposite conclusion of what the paper actually concluded." An intentional misrepresentation of studies and research has been rampant by church authorities and powerful anti-gay Christian groups. Although the unethical and immoral messages are openly disputed by those whose work has been plagiarized, that is never what Christians remember. The misinformation is continually regurgitating by ‘Christians’ as authoritative support for their prejudicial views, long after its falsehood is proven. The more widely this misinformation is used and promoted by church authorities, the greater the belief that prejudice and discrimination are not only warranted by Christians but a requirement of their doctrine. In 1998 - Christians falsely,and knowing better, “ equated homosexuality with pedophilia. The Family Research Council's Bob Knight falsely asserted that the Employment Non Discrimination Act would extend legal protections to pedophiles. Parents are told that gays and lesbians are out to molest their children. Gay rights groups are falsely accused of supporting legalization of pedophilia, when in fact every major gay organization denounces it as criminal. "...one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf <<<< >>>"homosexuals are included in a list of sinners, who, if unrepentant, will not inherit the kingdom of God." - Family Research Council press release about Matt Shepard's funeral, on the day of the funeral, October 16, 1998, http://www.frc.org/press/101698.html. The release implied that a gay person who had not yet become, or tried to become, an "ex-gay" was "unrepentant."<<<< >>>"Homosexuals have never been forced to sit in the back of the bus. They are as privileged a group as any. To compare their attempts to affirm deviant sexual conduct to the legitimate discrimination claims of true minorities is a sham," said FRC Director of Cultural Studies Robert H. Knight - FRC's CultureFacts, July 28, 1999, http://www.frc.org/culture/cu99g4.html<<< >>>"homosexual behavior is extremely unhealthy, contributing to the spread of AIDS, hepatitis A, B and C and other sexually transmitted diseases….A study of more than 6,400 obituaries in homosexual publications reveals that homosexuals typically have far shorter life spans than the general population. Other reports indicate that homosexuals are more likely to have drug and alcohol abuse problems. It is unfair to force businesses to pay the extra insurance expense and lost productivity that inevitably results from homosexual behavior." [Editors note: the source for this "research" is the discredited Dr. Paul Cameron - see below for extensive information about his extreme beliefs] - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, testifying at ENDA Hearings, July 29, 1994 - committee on Labor and Human Resources, US Senate. Christians today still quote from totally discredited Cameron who even lost his standing with American Psychological Association and his reputation among his peers. A host of Religious Right leaders, including D. James Kennedy, Gary Bauer, James Dobson (Focus on the Family), Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America), Don Wildmon (American Family Association), and Richard Land (Southern Baptists) signed an open letter, printed as a newspaper ad, attacking American Airlines. Gary Bauer's claim that the airline's anti-discrimination policies somehow actively promoted discrimination against religious employees were so ridiculous that the airline's own Christian employees' organization disavowed it. American Airlines officials met with Religious Right leaders but rejected demands that they discontinue marketing to the gay community. Poisonous message In 1997 the Religious Right acted as the single, loudest voice promoting intolerance against gays and lesbians. Religious Right leaders like Pat Robertson (Christian Coalition Founder), Gary Bauer (Family Research Council), Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America), and Jerry Falwell used all the pulpits available to them – including TV, radio, direct mail, and the internet – to spread the poisonous message that hatred of gays and lesbians is not only acceptable, it is required of "godly" people. The Christian Coalition's Randy Tate contributed to the major Christian campaign which continues to embrace the message of “love the sinner, hate the sin”. This campaign message of, ‘love’ but not accept thy neighbor, found refuge with huge portions of Christians who were suffering the effects of cognitive dissonance from previous hate message campaigns. The wide acceptance by Christians emulates to near perfection how church authorities manipulate the masses. Exemplified in the quote below is representation of how ‘love’ and ‘compassion’ can be turned into acceptance and enforcement of discriminatory policy. "I think that as Americans, and particularly as a person of faith, that we need to extend Christian charity to all individuals. That doesn't mean in the public policy realm that we need to extend special privileges to individuals based on their private sexual behavior." — Hardball with Chris Matthews, August 11, 1998 http://www.cwfa.org/articles/19257/MEDIA/family/index.htm Prop 8 Case strikes at the heart of democracy 2010 “Citizens of California voted to uphold marriage because they understood the sacred nature of marriage and that homosexual activists use same-sex ‘marriage’ as a political juggernaut to indoctrinate young children in schools to reject their parent’s values and to harass, sue and punish people who disagree. NOTE OF REFERENCES: I tried to make sure anything other than my own words were placed in quotes and in-text citations privided. If a quote is lacking citation it was one of several that were retrieved from the following: http://www.pfaw.org/media-center/publications/anti-gay-politics-and-the-religious-right Anti-Gay Politics and the Religious Right. A Report by the People For the American Way Foundation I end where I bagan, with what Sarah said so well. Sarah Silverman – Message To America – On Gay Suicide. Dear, America. When you tell Gay Americans that they can’t serve their country openly, or marry the person that they love, your telling that to kids too. Don’t be ‘f….ingshocked and wonder where all these bullies are coming from that are torching young kids and driving them to kill themselves because they’re different. They learned it from watching you. Ahhh,Red. I know you mean well, but you missed the point of my post entirely. I really didn't think that my words were that clouded, unless one takes them out of context or paraphrases. MiddleEarthling's OP only "supported" his already biggoted viewpoint in his mind. There still has been no correlation established between those reported suicides and Religion. Would you have used his quoted source in support of the topic if you read this statement??? "And if he was straight he likely wouldn't have contemplated -- not to mention successfully accomplished -- his own suicide by jumping off the George Washington Bridge." This isn't the first time he's done this either. Now I'm afraid you spoon-fed a bible-thumping Atheist information that may promote his anti-religion bigotry, while not encouraging him to think for himself. But then again, that may be your agenda too.... I certainly may have misread, it was quite late when I read though this thread and I apologize if you or anyone here felt my post was a direct accusation on any single individual in these threads. I was just attempting to address with facts, what I thought was the subject. Hoewever, I hope that those who read it can see a broader message about group think and about 'community'. That community which creates the BEST environment for children and adults is a community in which every member is equally valued for their contribution and their character and not based on what a moral directive that a self-proclaimed authority figure has decided it should mean. No I would not have used the source in the OP. But I still agree with at least one message it brings - that there IS correlation between the suicide rate of kids, especially homosexuals and religion. Those who will say that bullying has always gone on, that all kids are bullied, it's a part of life you learn to deal with it, are making excuses. And furthermore, when you hear the verbalizations of kids bullying suspected or known homosexual kids, it is not because it part of some "acceptible" normal ritual rather, it comes from the discrimination they see around them. Also, I can't imagine why any person in their right mind would 'accept' their child beeing tortured, harrassed, and bullied for years and say to the kid - "it's ok, it happens, you'll get over it." But listen to those same people sing a different story when that bullying comes from GANG affilation. How do they think gangs get started? It's difficult in a forum, such as this, to demonstrate completely the connection. There is 30 years of history from which my conclusions where made, I only went back to 1990's and I only gave a tiny sample of the support behind my opinion. Good grief I can't believe I am reading this kinda of stuff from adults.I can only imagine you some of you must have lived some extremly sheltered lives from the real world safely tucked under mommy and daddies wing. Everyone is going to get harrassed,bullied,and insulted in school no matter who you are.I could probably write a novel on all the names,insults and harrasment I dealed with going through school.I was once expelled from a public school for simply having long hair.Yet you don't hear me crying a river.You don't see me jumping off a bridge just like the millions of others who have to deal with this crap. What you and others seem to constantly fail to realize is Christianity is a very big part of many peoples lives who feel lost with out it.There is no doubt that Christianity more than anything else has stopped a lot of gays who were going to kill themselves but stopped because they went to church or converted to Christianity.I also don't feel like gays are going to kill themselves because Christians are living in the United states. Since you won't accept it or acknowledge it I will say it again.Christians are the majority in this country and every law,bill,and statute passed to help the gays were passed by Christians.You cite California's no vote on gay marriage yet you seem to be blind to the fact it was nearly a tie.A large number of Christians were voting yes on the other half(even though they shouldn't be doing so).You can say it was all Atheist but I say BS since Atheist only make up less than 10% of the population and not everyone of them will vote for gay marriage. Your nauseating quotes from various people is totally useless in here.They are totally useless because it is someones opinion from people nobody has heard of and nobody cares about.Who cares?For every 100 posts you give I can give you 100 more from Christians that are pro gay.It's nothing but a waste of time. I think you start to backing up some of your non sense with facts.I don't believe for a second that gays are committing suicide because of Christianity.Show me some statistics.Christians are not going to stop someone from being gay.

MiddleEarthling Joined Tue 08/18/09 Posts: 1911	Mon 10/18/10 07:25 PM
Seems some people support bullying here as "acceptable" because "everyone gets bullyied" and that is about the most absurd argument I have ever heard on this subject. We've proven that it's mainly the religious that promote the ignorances that lead to hatred and discriminations...and even death. Notice that they have no references in defense and can only spout thruthiness....in defense of bullying. To be fair..who me?...there are some Christian groups that oppose bullying and are against the evangelicals...but then the RW religious nutbags point at them and say, "yew ain't no real Christian". We have a rather large number of over-the-rainbow people in America. They are Christians first...not Americans first, like me. They abuse their "freedom of religion"...NO respect for humanity and are often used in supporting the Hitlers and Dippics in our history...all we can do is educate and hope. Seems like truth would win out...eventually.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 10/18/10 07:30 PM
Seems some people support bullying here as "acceptable" because "everyone gets bullyied" and that is about the most absurd argument I have ever heard on this subject. We've proven that it's mainly the religious that promote the ignorances that lead to hatred and discriminations...and even death. Notice that they have no references in defense and can only spout thruthiness....in defense of bullying. To be fair..who me?...there are some Christian groups that oppose bullying and are against the evangelicals...but then the RW religious nutbags point at them and say, "yew ain't no real Christian". We have a rather large number of over-the-rainbow people in America. They are Christians first...not Americans first, like me. They abuse their "freedom of religion"...NO respect for humanity and are often used in supporting the Hitlers and Dippics in our history...all we can do is educate and hope. Seems like truth would win out...eventually. noone proved much of anything here ,,everyone just reasserted why they hold THEIR beliefs,,, bullying isnt ok, but it isnt happening because of religion, it is happening because of PEOPLE

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Tue 10/19/10 10:58 AM Edited by Redykeulous on Tue 10/19/10 11:01 AM
where is the research thats going to PROVE that a majority of any type of bullying is due to religious propoganda,,,is there a study showing that those doing the bullying regularly attend church or read their bible or watch christian television? I can respond to your question but it will not be in the form you might expect. I will need to lay some important ground work in order to make my answer clear. Research: In social psychology a relatively small portion of the research is done in a lab setting, much of the ‘research’ can only be accomplished through direct observation in real situations, while a large portion of the research is accomplished through large representative surveys (Q & A of individuals) and then studied. It’s possible to collect the data from these various forms of research and make inferences that would not be possible without combining the previously and separately collected data. There is a large body of research, that when combined has yielded theories related to bullying. From these theories we have learned how to identify bullying, and predict the characteristics of the bully, the target, and the passive participants. Bullying: Briefly – what we know about bullies is that they want to have control or power over others and to assert that power within a chosen peer group. Bullies will determine the means of gaining their power in one of two ways. The bully may use the strategy of taking cues from peers that he or she wants to impress. For example, if one of the group makes comments about particular characteristics of another and the rest of the group, laughs and joins in, the bully will pick up on those cues and use that strategy on the target. The other strategy is to initiate comments here and there to determine which ones would work the best and to have a choice of strategies to make finding the right target easier. For example, it may not always be possible to find an easy target if the characteristic belongs to a strong, self-assertive, or well connected target, an alternative strategy may be employed. The target: kids with disabilities, physical differences like race, body size or shape, and sexual orientation. It’s also very important to realize that these kids are commonly inhibited, insecure, have low self-esteem and tend to be anxious and somewhat isolated. >>>>> Those are facts concluded from a large body of research and you should have no problem finding references to these facts, although much of the actual research (raw data) is a bit more difficult to find on the open web<<<< Other Research: Surveys conducted over the last ten years about bullying in schools can be found on the web, though only a few examples posted here. 84.6% of LGBT students reported being verbally harassed, 40.1% reported being physically harassed and 18.8% reported being physically assaulted at school in the past year because of their sexual orientation. • 63.7% of LGBT students reported being verbally harassed, 27.2% reported being physically harassed and 12.5% reported being physically assaulted at school in the past year because of their gender expression. • 72.4% heard homophobic remarks, such as "faggot" or "dyke," frequently or often at school. • Nearly two-thirds (61.1%) of students reported that they felt unsafe in school because of their sexual orientation, and more than a third (39.9%) felt unsafe because of their gender expression. • 29.1% of LGBT students missed a class at least once and 30.0% missed at least one day of school in the past month because of safety concerns, compared to only 8.0% and 6.7%, respectively, of a national sample of secondary school students. SOURCE:(2009 National School Climate Survey: Nearly 9 out of 10 LGBT Students Experience Harassment in School) http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/news/record/2624.html A recent survey of over 6000 lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender, youth done by the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) found that over 86% reported being harassed with 44% reporting being either shoved, pushed, kicked, or injured with a weapon due to their sexual orientation or gender Source: (Identity.Gay and Lesbian Well-Being: Covering issues vital to the psychological health and happiness of gays, lesbians, and their families. SOURCE: (Michael C. LaSala, Ph.D. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/gay-and-lesbian-well-being/201008/professionals-must-recognize-and-stop-anti-gay-bullying) Lesbian or gay participants were three times as likely as heterosexual youth to report having been bullied. In contrast, lesbian or gay youth were about 80 percent less likely than heterosexuals to say they had bullied someone, the researchers note. Source: (2007, http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/30/health/webmd/main2630785.shtml) As you have already noted, gender orientation does not consist of any distinct physical characteristics. So at this point there are two possible descriptions of the target, aside from displaying qualities described (inhibited, insecure, low self-esteem, anxious and somewhat isolated). Either the target is old enough to understand the complexities of gender orientation, and to have self-identified and made that identity known – or – the target chosen is simply an easy and available mark. Now, all the targets have the types of qualities (inhibited, insecure…) and all the strategies (choosing a physical or mental characteristic) match the targets with one except the strategy of sexual orientation may not match the target, more often than other strategies would not match the target. NOW, we get to the question: where is the research thats going to PROVE that a majority of any type of bullying is due to religious propaganda? So what is it about sexual orientation in this age group that makes it a dominant bullying strategy? Here is where the research becomes the most obvious. Since we now understand all the basic elements of bullying and since the particular strategy of a bully to use sexual orientation where no visible characteristics are necessary to match the target, we need to look around to find out what is happening in society that makes using sexual orientation as bullying strategy the most dominant and preferred choice of the bully seeking to gain the approval of his particular peer group. Religious Propaganda the Connection: Most people can make an almost immediate association with religion and it will only take me one example to demonstrate: Quite obviously (to some) the Gays of this country have an AGENDA: According to Concerned Women for America, Decades ago, homosexual activists decided to burst forth from their closets with a propaganda campaign. They have repackaged and sold to the public behaviors which thousands of years of history, every major world religion and uncompromising human biology have long identified as immoral and sexually deviant. At its core is a concerted effort to remove from society all traditional notions of sexual morality and replace them with the post-modern concept of sexual relativism. That is to say, when it comes to sex, there is never right or wrong. All sexual appetites are “equal.” If it feels good, do it. Ultimately, the homosexual lobby’s primary objective is to radically redefine our foundational institutions of legitimate marriage and the nuclear family by unraveling God’s natural design for human sexuality. In so doing, they hope to elevate their own spiritual and biological counterfeit and establish a sexually androgynous society wherein natural distinctions between male and female are dissolved. Source (Unmasking The “Gay” Agenda – J. Matt Barber. Concerned Women for America http://www.cwfa.org/articles/14696/CFI/family/index.htm ) What is at the heart of evil in our world, and how do we lessen its power in our own lives? Check out David Kupelian's newest book, "How Evil Works: Understanding and Overcoming the Destructive Forces That Are Transforming America" <<< As the pressure groups scream for pro-homosexual policies, they simultaneously seek to prohibit all speech opposing homosexual behavior, which is viewed as harassment or contributing to it. … In the fantasy world of these child-corruption advocates, there's an unbroken line connecting the actual bullies to any and all who stand up against sexual deviance. … supporters of homosexuality nudge kids into a known risky behavior … homosexuality is not an inevitable destiny, it’s a wayward yet changeable sexual inclination? … One wonders if any of these kids ever heard a clearly articulated warning against homosexuality. … kids should be told the truth that no one is born gay. Source: (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=211837, Is 'gay' agenda to blame for teen suicides? October 06, 2010 By Linda Harvey Mission America.com) The “Gay Agenda” also includes: phony concept of “gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered” identity (ascerting false assumptions because) People are never locked biologically into the chosen behaviors of homosexuality or gender change, which are as inappropriate for children as they are for adults. Students should be steered away from these practices, not toward them. (Claiming that gays have human rights) There is no constitutional right to homosexual behavior or cross-dressing. Homosexuality and cross-dressing are not intrinsic to a certain subset of humans and are totally dissimilar to something fixed, like race. (intrusion of freedom) Prohibiting discrimination based on “perceived sexual orientation” or “perceived gender identity” can only be described as a massive intrusion on freedom of conscience, speech and religion. In practice, it would be the “thought police” on steroids. Source: http://politifi.com/news/Fighting-the-Gay-Agenda-in-Schools-197184.html A Contrasting Religious Link: some Christians & Christian Groups accept partial responsibility It is difficult to have a positive self-image when much of society would tell you that what you are is abnormal or that you are a sinner and would seek to deny your civil rights and make your expressions of love against the law. Coming out in a religious context challenges all that. We can learn, in synagogues and churches that welcome us, that what we are is good; that we can love and be loved; that we are created, like everyone else, in God's image; and that God loves us with an unqualified love. Religion has the ability to transform us. With people not only hating us but also trying to make us hate ourselves, we desperately need places where we can learn to love ourselves. (by Rabbi Victor Appell, "If Only Tyler Clementi Had Been to a Gay Synagogue,") More difficult to address are the myriad ways in which everyday churches that do a lot of good in the world also perpetuate theologies that undergird and legitimate instrumental violence. The simplistic, black and white lines that are drawn between conceptions of good and evil make it all-too-easy to apply these dualisms to groups of people. When theologies leave no room for ambiguity, mystery and uncertainty, it becomes very easy to identify an “us” (good, heterosexual) versus a “them” (evil, gay). . . . it becomes easy to know who it is okay to hate or to bully or, seemingly more benignly, to ignore. . . . Ministers who remain in comfortable silence on sexuality must speak out. Churches that have silently embraced gay and lesbian members for years must publically hang the welcome banner. How long will we continue to limit and qualify our messages of acceptance, inclusion and embrace for the most vulnerable in order to maintain the comfort of those in our communities of faith who are well-served by the status quo? ("Why Anti-Gay Bullying is a Theological Issue," by Baptist minister Cody J. Sanders at Religion Dispatches.) Source: (http://www.mothertalkers.com/storyonly/2010/10/14/1251/1526 , Religion as an Antidote to Anti-LGBT Bullying by Dana Oct 14, 2010) SUMMARY: Research is often a matter of making connections between facts, the question of … “where is the research thats going to PROVE that a majority of any type of bullying is due to religious propaganda” Can be answered by following a logical progression beginning with ‘research’ collecting the data for projecting inferences and finally - direct observation within the social settings of which the inferences are widely and consistently known to take place. In the case at hand, the social setting is consistent encompassing our entire culture. Given the tools to analyze the quesiton properly it would be impossible not to recognize the link between religion, religious propaganda, and the bullying of individuals based on sexual orientation.

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Tue 10/19/10 11:08 AM Edited by Redykeulous on Tue 10/19/10 11:09 AM
Seems some people support bullying here as "acceptable" because "everyone gets bullyied" and that is about the most absurd argument I have ever heard on this subject. We've proven that it's mainly the religious that promote the ignorances that lead to hatred and discriminations...and even death. Notice that they have no references in defense and can only spout thruthiness....in defense of bullying. To be fair..who me?...there are some Christian groups that oppose bullying and are against the evangelicals...but then the RW religious nutbags point at them and say, "yew ain't no real Christian". We have a rather large number of over-the-rainbow people in America. They are Christians first...not Americans first, like me. They abuse their "freedom of religion"...NO respect for humanity and are often used in supporting the Hitlers and Dippics in our history...all we can do is educate and hope. Seems like truth would win out...eventually. noone proved much of anything here ,,everyone just reasserted why they hold THEIR beliefs,,, bullying isnt ok, but it isnt happening because of religion, it is happening because of PEOPLE I have gone to the trouble of, ONCE AGAIN, of doing the research and spoon feeding it to you. Kindly resist the urge to call it mere opinion without conclusive evidence to back up your profound opinionated statements about my research.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 10/19/10 11:08 AM
Seems some people support bullying here as "acceptable" because "everyone gets bullyied" and that is about the most absurd argument I have ever heard on this subject. We've proven that it's mainly the religious that promote the ignorances that lead to hatred and discriminations...and even death. Notice that they have no references in defense and can only spout thruthiness....in defense of bullying. To be fair..who me?...there are some Christian groups that oppose bullying and are against the evangelicals...but then the RW religious nutbags point at them and say, "yew ain't no real Christian". We have a rather large number of over-the-rainbow people in America. They are Christians first...not Americans first, like me. They abuse their "freedom of religion"...NO respect for humanity and are often used in supporting the Hitlers and Dippics in our history...all we can do is educate and hope. Seems like truth would win out...eventually. noone proved much of anything here ,,everyone just reasserted why they hold THEIR beliefs,,, bullying isnt ok, but it isnt happening because of religion, it is happening because of PEOPLE True in a way. People feel justified because of what their religious doctrine says to judge and persecute other humans. Using religion in our society is a pretty accepted thing in cases of judgement. And it being in the religious doctrine makes it right in the eyes of the followers no matter how wrong it is in reality.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 10/19/10 11:20 AM
Seems some people support bullying here as "acceptable" because "everyone gets bullyied" and that is about the most absurd argument I have ever heard on this subject. We've proven that it's mainly the religious that promote the ignorances that lead to hatred and discriminations...and even death. Notice that they have no references in defense and can only spout thruthiness....in defense of bullying. To be fair..who me?...there are some Christian groups that oppose bullying and are against the evangelicals...but then the RW religious nutbags point at them and say, "yew ain't no real Christian". We have a rather large number of over-the-rainbow people in America. They are Christians first...not Americans first, like me. They abuse their "freedom of religion"...NO respect for humanity and are often used in supporting the Hitlers and Dippics in our history...all we can do is educate and hope. Seems like truth would win out...eventually. noone proved much of anything here ,,everyone just reasserted why they hold THEIR beliefs,,, bullying isnt ok, but it isnt happening because of religion, it is happening because of PEOPLE True in a way. People feel justified because of what their religious doctrine says to judge and persecute other humans. Using religion in our society is a pretty accepted thing in cases of judgement. And it being in the religious doctrine makes it right in the eyes of the followers no matter how wrong it is in reality. Christianity teaches us not to judge anyone nor persecute them on such, I do not know where you get this. And yes i know you didn't specifically say Christianity, but since it is included in the religion group and you said religion what you said would also apply to Christianity, which is totally wrong for Christianity teaches us not to judge anyone nor persecute them for actions done.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Tue 10/19/10 11:58 AM
Suicide, especially the suicide of a young person, is a tragedy. On it's face, our society is more accepting of gays than most and certainly more accepting now than in previous years, so why the rash of suicides? Not because of religion, religion's position on homosexuality hasn't changed. What has changed is society. Society is less civil now than at any point in recorded history. We see people treated with contempt because they disagree about religion or politics. When you teach this lesson to children, that mockery and humiliation are acceptable and will garner you praise, why be surprised when the children use those tools to destroy the lives of other children?

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Tue 10/19/10 01:18 PM
Seems some people support bullying here as "acceptable" because "everyone gets bullyied" and that is about the most absurd argument I have ever heard on this subject. We've proven that it's mainly the religious that promote the ignorances that lead to hatred and discriminations...and even death. Notice that they have no references in defense and can only spout thruthiness....in defense of bullying. To be fair..who me?...there are some Christian groups that oppose bullying and are against the evangelicals...but then the RW religious nutbags point at them and say, "yew ain't no real Christian". We have a rather large number of over-the-rainbow people in America. They are Christians first...not Americans first, like me. They abuse their "freedom of religion"...NO respect for humanity and are often used in supporting the Hitlers and Dippics in our history...all we can do is educate and hope. Seems like truth would win out...eventually. noone proved much of anything here ,,everyone just reasserted why they hold THEIR beliefs,,, bullying isnt ok, but it isnt happening because of religion, it is happening because of PEOPLE I have gone to the trouble of, ONCE AGAIN, of doing the research and spoon feeding it to you. Kindly resist the urge to call it mere opinion without conclusive evidence to back up your profound opinionated statements about my research. I respectfully submit that although you have provided AMPLE examples of bullying and isolated studies about percentages of this and that and also have given a very respectable assessment of how bullying is about finding an easy 'target' and none of these are YOUR personal opinions the correlation then created that implies RELIGION is at the base, is indeed a personal interpretation of the other information provided,,,one which I dont share,,, correlation can be made between all types of things, when a society is so diverse and complex, but those correlations are not definitive proof, for me , of a causation that lends to any group being persecuted (or blamed) for the actions of a few

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Tue 10/19/10 01:20 PM Edited by msharmony on Tue 10/19/10 01:30 PM
Seems some people support bullying here as "acceptable" because "everyone gets bullyied" and that is about the most absurd argument I have ever heard on this subject. We've proven that it's mainly the religious that promote the ignorances that lead to hatred and discriminations...and even death. Notice that they have no references in defense and can only spout thruthiness....in defense of bullying. To be fair..who me?...there are some Christian groups that oppose bullying and are against the evangelicals...but then the RW religious nutbags point at them and say, "yew ain't no real Christian". We have a rather large number of over-the-rainbow people in America. They are Christians first...not Americans first, like me. They abuse their "freedom of religion"...NO respect for humanity and are often used in supporting the Hitlers and Dippics in our history...all we can do is educate and hope. Seems like truth would win out...eventually. noone proved much of anything here ,,everyone just reasserted why they hold THEIR beliefs,,, bullying isnt ok, but it isnt happening because of religion, it is happening because of PEOPLE I have gone to the trouble of, ONCE AGAIN, of doing the research and spoon feeding it to you. Kindly resist the urge to call it mere opinion without conclusive evidence to back up your profound opinionated statements about my research. I respectfully submit that although you have provided AMPLE examples of bullying and isolated studies about percentages of this and that and also have given a very respectable assessment of how bullying is about finding an easy 'target' and none of these are YOUR personal opinions the correlation then created that implies RELIGION is at the base, is indeed a personal interpretation of the other information provided,,,one which I dont share,,, correlation can be made between all types of things, when a society is so diverse and complex, but those correlations are not definitive proof, for me , of a causation that lends to any group being persecuted (or blamed) for the actions of a few I dont hold religion accountable for racism or sexism or anything else that men have used it as a scapegoat for either there are just as many other possible combinations of FACTS that can explain bullying , whether it be for sexual orientation or social status,,, indeed, even before the bible that so many study in modern times was WRITTEN, certain behavior and actions were less ACCEPTABLE than others, those were the CULTURAL norms and they have and will always exist with or without ANY religious books the most I can agree with, is that terroris of all sorts can usually be traced to an EXTREME element and not the mainstream I am indeed saddened as a christian at some of the hateful things other christians post in these threads, and occasionally I address them but I dont feel my religion is the reason for their hatred so much as THEIR interpretation of what they have read and even though we may have read the same thing, we may still be totally different in our assessment of what we are to take from it similar to how siblings in the same home come out with different personalities and strengths and weaknesses, so do followers of the same religion(especially when they number over a billion strong) I have yet to be inside of ANY religious institution where bullying was not immediately corrected and though I hope it hurts noones feelings, as I have said before, the idea that children are paying that close of attention to church or the bible in this day and age is laughable at best in my opinion

Peter_Pan69 Joined Sun 08/23/09 Posts: 2781	Tue 10/19/10 01:37 PM
Seems some people support bullying here as "acceptable" because "everyone gets bullyied" and that is about the most absurd argument I have ever heard on this subject. We've proven that it's mainly the religious that promote the ignorances that lead to hatred and discriminations...and even death. Notice that they have no references in defense and can only spout thruthiness....in defense of bullying. To be fair..who me?...there are some Christian groups that oppose bullying and are against the evangelicals...but then the RW religious nutbags point at them and say, "yew ain't no real Christian". We have a rather large number of over-the-rainbow people in America. They are Christians first...not Americans first, like me. They abuse their "freedom of religion"...NO respect for humanity and are often used in supporting the Hitlers and Dippics in our history...all we can do is educate and hope. Seems like truth would win out...eventually. noone proved much of anything here ,,everyone just reasserted why they hold THEIR beliefs,,, bullying isnt ok, but it isnt happening because of religion, it is happening because of PEOPLE I have gone to the trouble of, ONCE AGAIN, of doing the research and spoon feeding it to you. Kindly resist the urge to call it mere opinion without conclusive evidence to back up your profound opinionated statements about my research. Research???? Wasn't it you who said that anyone would be able to find evidence to support whatever their claims may be? Sooooo, your "research" really holds no water now does it? You started out with a good basis for identifying bullies and victims, but you left out a huge chunk of "victims". You forgot to mention that a lot of victims are not vitims because of their sexual orientation, but that's not important to you as those "victims" aren't mentioned in religion, are they? The new kid... The red-head kid... The smart kid... The dumb kid... The handicapped kid... The poor kid... The rich kid... The fat kid... The kid with zits... The smelly kid... The kid who wears "cheap" shoes... Really, take a look at your so-called "research" and I think you will find that a bully doesn't care what aspect of traits he targets, just that there be a target. Don't expect me to spoon-feed you anything, I know that you'll just dismiss it as biased and opinionated. Like you are not.... msharmony is right, it's PEOPLE, and nothing else that is to blame. It starts with the parents 1st, then the kids. Unless you want to claim that your morals come from a book or another person, I don't think your case has a leg to stand on...

Peter_Pan69 Joined Sun 08/23/09 Posts: 2781	Tue 10/19/10 04:26 PM
Oh yeah, proof that your conclusions are merely opinions... "Of course it’s not just bullying of those perceived to be homosexual that occurs, it’s just that where homosexuality is the target in schools it seems to have been influenced by religious propaganda." The key word is seems... Would you agree?

MiddleEarthling Joined Tue 08/18/09 Posts: 1911	Tue 10/19/10 04:37 PM
"With or without religion, good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things. But, for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven Weinberg

Peter_Pan69 Joined Sun 08/23/09 Posts: 2781	Tue 10/19/10 04:55 PM
"Everybody knows That the world is full of stupid people" - The Refreshments