Topic: Can you smell the difference?
Chazster's photo
Mon 08/15/11 05:55 PM

Liberalism = Freedom so it is the true American way, no doubt about it.


Either that statement is false or you don't believe in Obamacare as it doesn't give you the freedom to choose.

Dragoness's photo
Mon 08/15/11 05:59 PM
Edited by Dragoness on Mon 08/15/11 06:01 PM


Liberalism = Freedom so it is the true American way, no doubt about it.


Either that statement is false or you don't believe in Obamacare as it doesn't give you the freedom to choose.


That statement wasn't about Congresscare anyways but if you are too poor you can't choose now so what is the difference?

None of which changes the truth of liberal=freedom, conservative does not.

Chazster's photo
Mon 08/15/11 06:43 PM



Liberalism = Freedom so it is the true American way, no doubt about it.


Either that statement is false or you don't believe in Obamacare as it doesn't give you the freedom to choose.


That statement wasn't about Congresscare anyways but if you are too poor you can't choose now so what is the difference?

None of which changes the truth of liberal=freedom, conservative does not.

No facts for that statement.

Your previous statement is like saying I don't have the freedom to won a ferrari because I can't afford it. The freedom to have something and the means to have something are totally different.

Liberals want to pass gun control laws. That isn't freedom. They want people to pay more taxes. That isn't freedom either. Limiting what I can do with the money I earn is limiting the freedom of my spending.

Liberals have their own freedom limiters. And I totally disagree with your statement about conservatism. Current republicans are not conservatives.

Dragoness's photo
Mon 08/15/11 07:13 PM




Liberalism = Freedom so it is the true American way, no doubt about it.


Either that statement is false or you don't believe in Obamacare as it doesn't give you the freedom to choose.


That statement wasn't about Congresscare anyways but if you are too poor you can't choose now so what is the difference?

None of which changes the truth of liberal=freedom, conservative does not.

No facts for that statement.

Your previous statement is like saying I don't have the freedom to won a ferrari because I can't afford it. The freedom to have something and the means to have something are totally different.

Liberals want to pass gun control laws. That isn't freedom. They want people to pay more taxes. That isn't freedom either. Limiting what I can do with the money I earn is limiting the freedom of my spending.

Liberals have their own freedom limiters. And I totally disagree with your statement about conservatism. Current republicans are not conservatives.


Sure gun control is freedom, freedom for non gun people to have suffer the gun crazies in their lives.

Taxes are paid so this country is the best it can be, paying taxes is a privilege to live in this great country, not a limit on freedoms at all. Taxes actually make our freedoms better.

So yea liberalism by definition still equals freedom over conservationism that doesn't.

karmafury's photo
Mon 08/15/11 07:14 PM





Gee, Socialism for a better America?


How about Germany WWII?



Uh ....... Germany WWII = Fascist not Socialist.


Almost all political scholars consider Fascism to be a Far Right ideology. And a look at the Wikipedia article on the subject would show the reader there are many points of intersection in the beliefs, goals and methods of today's Far Right in America, especially with Italian Fascism.

-Kerry O.

If I am not mistaken Nazi's were Communists and thus the government controlled everything and thus Socialism.



In very broad strokes, socialism is an economic system in which "the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy." In modern societies, socialism often attempts to eradicate class divisions. While the word "socialism" is sometimes used interchangeably with "communism," the two aren't the same -- communism is a more extreme form of socialism.

Communism advocates the "collective ownership of property and the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members." While communism is first and foremost an economic system, it's also a political ideology that rejects religion. And just as communism is a form of socialism, Marxism, Maoism, and Leninism are branches of communism.

Like socialism and communism, fascism uses a central authority to maintain control, but "terror and censorship" are common. It results from economic failure in democratic political systems. Interestingly, while socialism and communism are both on the left end of the political spectrum, fascism contains elements of both "left and right ideology" and rises from economic collapse. The most famous fascist was Italian dictator Benito Mussolini. That ought to tell you it's not a good way to run a country.

http://ask.yahoo.com/20050920.html

..................................................

When one usually discusses communist and fascist ideology, it is in terms of the effects of their embittered hatred for one another. The rise of both ideologies in the shrinking geopolitical arena of 20th century international politics created a situation that brought the two schools of thought into conflict; reaching a pinnacle of conflict during the years of World War II. However, these systems shared many similarities. For example, the aspiration of creating a utopian society through military expansion was intrinsic in the political goals of both institutions. In this section, I will stray away from the ideologically similar goals of fascism and communism, and instead discuss the intrinsic requirement of authoritarian rule in both systems.

http://sitemaker.umich.edu/fascistpersonalitycult/comparing_communist___fascist_personality_cults

..............................................

Remember your high school history lessons? Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini hated Joseph Stalin? Enough so for Hitler to open a "Eastern Front"



no photo
Mon 08/15/11 07:23 PM
Our credit rating was lowered because of the current toxic political scene where our politicians have an ax to grind. They would rather cut their noses to spite their faces than to govern to the best of their abilities and to represent the American people and their best interest.

creativesoul's photo
Mon 08/15/11 07:26 PM
Today, it is privatize the profits and socialize the losses.

laugh

Socialism for the priveleged few, and raw capitalism for the rest of us.

Chazster's photo
Mon 08/15/11 08:31 PM





Liberalism = Freedom so it is the true American way, no doubt about it.


Either that statement is false or you don't believe in Obamacare as it doesn't give you the freedom to choose.


That statement wasn't about Congresscare anyways but if you are too poor you can't choose now so what is the difference?

None of which changes the truth of liberal=freedom, conservative does not.

No facts for that statement.

Your previous statement is like saying I don't have the freedom to won a ferrari because I can't afford it. The freedom to have something and the means to have something are totally different.

Liberals want to pass gun control laws. That isn't freedom. They want people to pay more taxes. That isn't freedom either. Limiting what I can do with the money I earn is limiting the freedom of my spending.

Liberals have their own freedom limiters. And I totally disagree with your statement about conservatism. Current republicans are not conservatives.


Sure gun control is freedom, freedom for non gun people to have suffer the gun crazies in their lives.

Taxes are paid so this country is the best it can be, paying taxes is a privilege to live in this great country, not a limit on freedoms at all. Taxes actually make our freedoms better.

So yea liberalism by definition still equals freedom over conservationism that doesn't.

But limits freedom to not own guns. Two sides to every coin. This type of argument can be applied to anything.

msharmony's photo
Mon 08/15/11 11:49 PM

So do I need to find more proof? or am I a racist?

If you don't like Herman Cain, you're a racist.




I hope not. Im not a big fan of his either.(Im not a big fan of people of any race who feel qualified to determine that some are more white/black/asian,,,etc,,, than others)

msharmony's photo
Mon 08/15/11 11:50 PM

Our credit rating was lowered because of the current toxic political scene where our politicians have an ax to grind. They would rather cut their noses to spite their faces than to govern to the best of their abilities and to represent the American people and their best interest.



thats what frustrates me,, too busy being 'anti obama' to bother being 'pro americans'

Kleisto's photo
Tue 08/16/11 12:10 AM





Liberalism = Freedom so it is the true American way, no doubt about it.


Either that statement is false or you don't believe in Obamacare as it doesn't give you the freedom to choose.


That statement wasn't about Congresscare anyways but if you are too poor you can't choose now so what is the difference?

None of which changes the truth of liberal=freedom, conservative does not.

No facts for that statement.

Your previous statement is like saying I don't have the freedom to won a ferrari because I can't afford it. The freedom to have something and the means to have something are totally different.

Liberals want to pass gun control laws. That isn't freedom. They want people to pay more taxes. That isn't freedom either. Limiting what I can do with the money I earn is limiting the freedom of my spending.

Liberals have their own freedom limiters. And I totally disagree with your statement about conservatism. Current republicans are not conservatives.


Sure gun control is freedom, freedom for non gun people to have suffer the gun crazies in their lives.

Taxes are paid so this country is the best it can be, paying taxes is a privilege to live in this great country, not a limit on freedoms at all. Taxes actually make our freedoms better.


If that was the case we'd have MORE than we have and not less. But as it is they are vanishing by the day while many of us are asleep and unaware of it occuring.

And gun control IS NOT freedom, because it's punishing the responsible as well as the irresponsible. That simply is not fair. True freedom would allow for personal responsibility, but this goes against that, as it effectively lumps everyone into the same boat because of those who choose to do bad things.

Kleisto's photo
Tue 08/16/11 12:18 AM

LOL We already had socialist programs in this country before Obama, he hasn't instituted any new socialist programs that weren't already here.slaphead

We are in more danger from the Republicans in our government. They demonstrated this by letting our credit rating get downgraded and almost allowing a default of this country.

Republicans are the anti Americans in this country.


The anti-americans actually lie on both sides Dragoness, we have to get away from this paradigm shift. It really has changed very little beyond making the rich richer, and powerful even more so.

no photo
Tue 08/16/11 11:57 AM
Edited by artlo on Tue 08/16/11 12:17 PM
The articles I read that quoted the 1 agency that lowered our score (the other 2 didn't) said they lowered it because we didn't cut enough spending. That was their words.


It really is a lot better to read the actual report rather than relying on articles other people have written about the report. The actual statement reads
Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.


If it had been me, I would have researched the source myself rather than wait for a liberal to point it out to me. How embarrassing.

KerryO's photo
Tue 08/16/11 03:39 PM





Gee, Socialism for a better America?


How about Germany WWII?



Uh ....... Germany WWII = Fascist not Socialist.


Almost all political scholars consider Fascism to be a Far Right ideology. And a look at the Wikipedia article on the subject would show the reader there are many points of intersection in the beliefs, goals and methods of today's Far Right in America, especially with Italian Fascism.

-Kerry O.

If I am not mistaken Nazi's were Communists and thus the government controlled everything and thus Socialism.




You are mistaken. Did you even read the Wikipedia article?

Quick now-- who was the Nazi's 'Eastern Front' war against?


-Kerry O.

Chazster's photo
Tue 08/16/11 06:39 PM






Gee, Socialism for a better America?


How about Germany WWII?



Uh ....... Germany WWII = Fascist not Socialist.


Almost all political scholars consider Fascism to be a Far Right ideology. And a look at the Wikipedia article on the subject would show the reader there are many points of intersection in the beliefs, goals and methods of today's Far Right in America, especially with Italian Fascism.

-Kerry O.

If I am not mistaken Nazi's were Communists and thus the government controlled everything and thus Socialism.




You are mistaken. Did you even read the Wikipedia article?

Quick now-- who was the Nazi's 'Eastern Front' war against?


-Kerry O.

Are you trying to say that one communist country can't be at war with another communist country?

Ok well how about we look up the Nazi party which is (National Socialist German Workers' Party)

KerryO's photo
Wed 08/17/11 05:32 PM







Gee, Socialism for a better America?


How about Germany WWII?



Uh ....... Germany WWII = Fascist not Socialist.


Almost all political scholars consider Fascism to be a Far Right ideology. And a look at the Wikipedia article on the subject would show the reader there are many points of intersection in the beliefs, goals and methods of today's Far Right in America, especially with Italian Fascism.

-Kerry O.

If I am not mistaken Nazi's were Communists and thus the government controlled everything and thus Socialism.




You are mistaken. Did you even read the Wikipedia article?

Quick now-- who was the Nazi's 'Eastern Front' war against?


-Kerry O.

Are you trying to say that one communist country can't be at war with another communist country?

Ok well how about we look up the Nazi party which is (National Socialist German Workers' Party)


No, I'm saying that WWII European Fascism and Soviet Communism were two entirely different things.

Oh, and that you're still mistaken despite your attempt to cover your lack of knowledge about the history of WWII and the political spectrum with the specious assertion that it's within the realm of possibility that two communist countries could be at war with each other. It's irrelevant because that's NOT what happened.

-Kerry O.

heavenlyboy34's photo
Wed 08/17/11 06:13 PM

Liberalism = Freedom so it is the true American way, no doubt about it.


CLASSICAL Liberalism = Freedom. Modern "liberalism" is so far from true liberalism it's laughable. All the true liberals are called "libertarians" now.smokin

InvictusV's photo
Wed 08/17/11 06:29 PM








Gee, Socialism for a better America?


How about Germany WWII?



Uh ....... Germany WWII = Fascist not Socialist.


Almost all political scholars consider Fascism to be a Far Right ideology. And a look at the Wikipedia article on the subject would show the reader there are many points of intersection in the beliefs, goals and methods of today's Far Right in America, especially with Italian Fascism.

-Kerry O.

If I am not mistaken Nazi's were Communists and thus the government controlled everything and thus Socialism.




You are mistaken. Did you even read the Wikipedia article?

Quick now-- who was the Nazi's 'Eastern Front' war against?


-Kerry O.

Are you trying to say that one communist country can't be at war with another communist country?

Ok well how about we look up the Nazi party which is (National Socialist German Workers' Party)


No, I'm saying that WWII European Fascism and Soviet Communism were two entirely different things.

Oh, and that you're still mistaken despite your attempt to cover your lack of knowledge about the history of WWII and the political spectrum with the specious assertion that it's within the realm of possibility that two communist countries could be at war with each other. It's irrelevant because that's NOT what happened.

-Kerry O.


Barbarossa was launched to finish what was started in 1919. To rid the world of Bolshevist communism.

It was an advancement of their Eugenics program. The Slavic race would be either enslaved or eliminated.

Hitler branded the Bolshevist revolution a jewish revolution and everything that happened after that was geared towards its elimination.

The term fascist refers to "fasces" and was used by Mussolini to conjure up the power of the Roman Empire.

I don't think you will find too many "scholars" that would refer to the Romans as right wing fanatics.

TJN's photo
Wed 08/17/11 07:10 PM
paying taxes is a privilege to live in this great country, not a limit on freedoms at all.


so your saying that If you don't pay taxes you shouldn't be aloud to live here?
What do we do with the 50% of people in his country who don't pay taxes?

no photo
Wed 08/17/11 07:14 PM
What do we do with the 50% of people in his country who don't pay taxes?


Another one of those right-wing mythologies that has been around way too long. It's just isn't true.