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| Topic: Ask Republicans about jobs, they’ll answer about Obamacare | |
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sorry about some of the errors in posting. I tend to jump from thought to thought while writing and sometimes the sentence does not make sense. My bad. For as complicated as the issue is you are tackling a beast and of course some of the more liberally minded Obama Supporters here cannot see is that Obamacare has built in failure not being witnessed because it is going on in other nations and since it isn't going on here our own refuse to witness what fails and what works. Germany's model works. The UK and France's does not. These same people read what they want to read to justify their beliefs not witness based on what really is going on in other countries. Canada is already having a host of problems and everything you mentioned is about %50 percent of all the failures of socialized health care. I keep saying "Look at what Germany got right," but instead I keep getting "But this," and But That." Bunch of thick headed billy goats! Educated ignorance I say! And your take on this??? |
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tell me what choice a child has who grows up in poverty, is undereducated because of the dynamics of education in impoverished areas, has to compete with those who grow up in areas where 'networks' are built in, and is treated by society at large as 'less deserving' You might want to tell that to Clarence Thomas. Read his biography and you will understand why few now have sympathy for your point of view. when they grow up to not be able to compete, was that really all about what they 'chose',, no Well with training and discipline one can compete. Again I point you to Clarence Thomas' biography. The problem is that many of these ne'er-do-well keep bouncing Bballs around wanting to become NBA stars. That is the problem there are only a few job openings a year dribbling Bballs. It is a choice. what choice do people have who work for a company for decades and find the company outsource their jobs or shut down and because its an employers market find that the income they had EARNED and therefore set their lifestyle around no longer applies Stop driving businesses and the rich out with high corporate and individual tax rates. The rich do not put money in banks; they invest creating more jobs. But with Obama and his fellow ***** (as in idiot, donkey, democrat) trying to sodomize the rich and corporations at every turn why should corporations or the rich outsource overseas? what choice do people have who work hard and get the education but fall upon illness which their insurance doesnt cover, having medical bills which bankrupt them or cause them to loose their homes? What illnesses do they not cover? Pre-existing illnesses? You are darn right that they should not cover these. This would be unfair unless there is a premium. How did people live when the technology was not there to provide expensive medical care? Medical care is not a right! what choice do people have who worked their whole lives and payed into the system and then dont have a retirement because of the companies bad investments? Actually the company pays in your stead. When co-pay investments are made then you can get per amount over a period of time if you did not whose fault is that? Again one of choice. no,, the working poor arent poor because of their personal choices(some indeed are but thats not the broad or singular reason),, thats an easy way to blame the victim, but its misinformation As I have shown each of these are choices people make. There is the 2% of poor who really had bad luck. I don't mind if these are taken care of... by church groups but not the government. using clarence thomas as a poster for how much of a 'choice' the working poor had in their situation is like using the testimony of a house negro to explain how wonderful slavery really was people can achieve IN SPITE of, no doubt,, but they should not HAVE to , it should be a more EQUAL opportunity for all to achieve as opposed to forcing some to jump hurdles to do so and then using them to try to put down those others whose legs might not work as well,,, the stereotype about people 'bouncing balls' as a reflection of the 'working poor' is too out of touch for me to even comment on,,,, the notion that AFFORDABLE insurance and AFFORDABLE healthcare should only be for the healthy is equally out of touch, as most people arent 'expecting' to become ill and shouldnt be punished for not having the resource to purchase insurance they didnt NEED before they were ill the healthcare field (Which reform doesnt really begin to touch, by the way) rips people off in a big way because they have been permitted to,,, its funny how the insurance company can be charged a percentage of what the individual without insurance will be for the SAME services and products its not because those services and products somehow cost less to provide or produce when the insurance company billed them, but because corporate GREED and the selfish tunnelvision culture of egotism has ALLOWED it to continue that way nobody pays the employee in their 'stead' when their iras get wiped out or their retirements so none of these things are a matter merely of the individuals personal choices, but of flaws in how the system runs,,,, |
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There are flaws in every intervention of government into the market place, Germany model included. That said, the German model is fairer in that people have an option of a "two tiered" health insurance system.
msharmony's take on Clarence Thomas being a "house Negro" is quite typical of the black population in the United States which derides and disqualifies exceptionalism but rides shotgun for the race baiting welfare pimps like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton and their posse. It stereotyped people such as Colin Powell as not being black and only became black when he supported Obama. Somehow the black population believes that their stereotypes and the racism they espouse should be beyond reproach and those who take offense at their racism are the real racists. Again with the corporate greed. Corporations should be greedy, they need to turn a profit for their shareholders who invest their hard earned money in them. If a corporation was not greedy I will not have any part in them. In fact each one of us is greedy for something. That is what the pursuit of happiness that is enshrined in the constitution is all about. With the highest tax rate in the developed world why do you keep attacking corporations? It shows ingratitude and you are biting the hand that feeds you. Do you really believe that governments create jobs? Stop whipping corporations, no wonder they are moving out and for good reason. Perhaps you envision the socialist paradise of Fidel's Cuba? No one's stopping you. |
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There are flaws in every intervention of government into the market place, Germany model included. That said, the German model is fairer in that people have an option of a "two tiered" health insurance system. msharmony's take on Clarence Thomas being a "house Negro" is quite typical of the black population in the United States which derides and disqualifies exceptionalism but rides shotgun for the race baiting welfare pimps like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton and their posse. It stereotyped people such as Colin Powell as not being black and only became black when he supported Obama. Somehow the black population believes that their stereotypes and the racism they espouse should be beyond reproach and those who take offense at their racism are the real racists. Again with the corporate greed. Corporations should be greedy, they need to turn a profit for their shareholders who invest their hard earned money in them. If a corporation was not greedy I will not have any part in them. In fact each one of us is greedy for something. That is what the pursuit of happiness that is enshrined in the constitution is all about. With the highest tax rate in the developed world why do you keep attacking corporations? It shows ingratitude and you are biting the hand that feeds you. Do you really believe that governments create jobs? Stop whipping corporations, no wonder they are moving out and for good reason. Perhaps you envision the socialist paradise of Fidel's Cuba? No one's stopping you. Corporations themselves are not the problem. It is the lack of ethics and the greed of the CEOs and their banker relations that are the problem! |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Fri 10/14/11 01:02 PM
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There are flaws in every intervention of government into the market place, Germany model included. That said, the German model is fairer in that people have an option of a "two tiered" health insurance system. msharmony's take on Clarence Thomas being a "house Negro" is quite typical of the black population in the United States which derides and disqualifies exceptionalism but rides shotgun for the race baiting welfare pimps like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton and their posse. It stereotyped people such as Colin Powell as not being black and only became black when he supported Obama. Somehow the black population believes that their stereotypes and the racism they espouse should be beyond reproach and those who take offense at their racism are the real racists. Again with the corporate greed. Corporations should be greedy, they need to turn a profit for their shareholders who invest their hard earned money in them. If a corporation was not greedy I will not have any part in them. In fact each one of us is greedy for something. That is what the pursuit of happiness that is enshrined in the constitution is all about. With the highest tax rate in the developed world why do you keep attacking corporations? It shows ingratitude and you are biting the hand that feeds you. Do you really believe that governments create jobs? Stop whipping corporations, no wonder they are moving out and for good reason. Perhaps you envision the socialist paradise of Fidel's Cuba? No one's stopping you. ahaa,, more false assumptions... I Never called anyone a house negro specifically, I used the term to show the flaw in another analogy,,,, As far as 'the black population of the United States', we are a fairly diverse group and most of us are as capable of thinking for ourself as those blacks who admire the likes of Clarence Thomas or Herman Cain 'achievement' has little to do with why some blacks are seen as house negros,,, Clarence Thomas predecessor Thurgood Marshall would hardly be seen as a house negro, Neither do I consider other highly achieved blacks like Barack Obama, or Oprah Winfrey, or Colin Powell, or Maxine Waters, or Beyonce,, or a whole HOST of other highly achieved black americans because they didnt use their success or noteriety to be the mouthpiece for those who wish to constantly begrudge the less successful amongst us IF they aknowledge them at all I, like most of 'the black population of the United States' do not ride shotgun with sharpton or jackson,,which may be more obvious if an honest look is taken at their OWN attempts at one point to receive a nomination for presidential candidate (blacks didnt come out in groves to vote for them) also like many in the 'black population of the United States' I do not feel beyond reproach about racism but feel many who bang the drums loudly about the racism of american blakcs are not merely racists themselves but HYPOCRITES, who use black folks like Thomas or Cain to speak for them in order to avoid accusations of racism they are hypocrites in much the same way as Cain who espouses himself the victim of false labeling because he claims he is called racist for not agreeing with OBAMA but then turns and uses that same claim himself when someone (a comedian no doubt) pokes fun at something he said,,, As far as corporations, I am not attacking them, many corporations manage a pretty successful balance of serving their stockholders , contributing to the economy, AND looking out for the employees who make it all possible many others though, far too many, dont think ahead about the state of their employees and only think about their immediate quarter profits,,,,but life doesnt happen in quarters it ACCUMULATES and that short term GREED, cuts into our long term GROWTH as a citizenry,, thats what Im attacking not profits, or shareholders , or corporations, but the influx of GREED that puts money so far ahead of people, when both should actually be priorities that are SIDE BY SIDE,,, greed in business is no more necessary than greed in an american diet,,,we need what we NEED , we should treat ourself to what we want,, but when what we WANT is going to interfere with what we NEED or when it is going to set back our HEALTH, we should make other choices |
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Again with the corporate greed. Corporations should be greedy, they need to turn a profit for their shareholders who invest their hard earned money in them. I hope you recognize that, by the same token, workers need to earn a living wage, and seek to keep improving that. With the highest tax rate in the developed world why do you keep attacking corporations? You do understand, don't you, that published tax rates bear little resemblance to taxes which are actually paid by the large corporations. It shows ingratitude and you are biting the hand that feeds you. This really embodies the Corporatist attitude. That by offering a job, an employer is reaching out with an act of magificent largesse. Like doing the worker some kind of a huge favor. This is arrogance at its highest. No. The employer has to have employees if he wants to do business and make money. The employer has no choice but to do business with the worker who is willing to rent out his efforts in return for a fair return. Try making money for your share holders without them. Do you really believe that governments create jobs? Well, yes, I do. I had a Government job for 23 years. I got up each morning, went to my place of work, did the work that I had contracted to do and drew a paycheck for that work. It certainly felt like a job to me. Was I living a fantasy all those years? Stop whining because your Corporatist Gods aren't getting a free ride to the promised land. Stop whining because the 99% doesn't think that the Corporations and the employers should have all the power just because they can afford to buy their own Congressmen and Supreme Court Justices. |
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There are flaws in every intervention of government into the market place, Germany model included. That said, the German model is fairer in that people have an option of a "two tiered" health insurance system. msharmony's take on Clarence Thomas being a "house Negro" is quite typical of the black population in the United States which derides and disqualifies exceptionalism but rides shotgun for the race baiting welfare pimps like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton and their posse. It stereotyped people such as Colin Powell as not being black and only became black when he supported Obama. Somehow the black population believes that their stereotypes and the racism they espouse should be beyond reproach and those who take offense at their racism are the real racists. Again with the corporate greed. Corporations should be greedy, they need to turn a profit for their shareholders who invest their hard earned money in them. If a corporation was not greedy I will not have any part in them. In fact each one of us is greedy for something. That is what the pursuit of happiness that is enshrined in the constitution is all about. With the highest tax rate in the developed world why do you keep attacking corporations? It shows ingratitude and you are biting the hand that feeds you. Do you really believe that governments create jobs? Stop whipping corporations, no wonder they are moving out and for good reason. Perhaps you envision the socialist paradise of Fidel's Cuba? No one's stopping you. Corporations themselves are not the problem. It is the lack of ethics and the greed of the CEOs and their banker relations that are the problem! It amounts to downright Fascism! Even Mussolini thought so! "Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power." Benito Mussolini" and that's basically the situation you have in the US and over the World now! |
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There are flaws in every intervention of government into the market place, Germany model included. That said, the German model is fairer in that people have an option of a "two tiered" health insurance system. msharmony's take on Clarence Thomas being a "house Negro" is quite typical of the black population in the United States which derides and disqualifies exceptionalism but rides shotgun for the race baiting welfare pimps like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton and their posse. It stereotyped people such as Colin Powell as not being black and only became black when he supported Obama. Somehow the black population believes that their stereotypes and the racism they espouse should be beyond reproach and those who take offense at their racism are the real racists. Again with the corporate greed. Corporations should be greedy, they need to turn a profit for their shareholders who invest their hard earned money in them. If a corporation was not greedy I will not have any part in them. In fact each one of us is greedy for something. That is what the pursuit of happiness that is enshrined in the constitution is all about. With the highest tax rate in the developed world why do you keep attacking corporations? It shows ingratitude and you are biting the hand that feeds you. Do you really believe that governments create jobs? Stop whipping corporations, no wonder they are moving out and for good reason. Perhaps you envision the socialist paradise of Fidel's Cuba? No one's stopping you. Corporations themselves are not the problem. It is the lack of ethics and the greed of the CEOs and their banker relations that are the problem! It amounts to downright Fascism! Even Mussolini thought so! "Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power." Benito Mussolini" and that's basically the situation you have in the US and over the World now! http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/fascism-nazism.html http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/fascism_and_communism-socialism.html |
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In response to KerryO It is a well known fact that Canada does have a single payer system (depending on the province). However, we have been beset by the usual problems associated with it. 1. The more able/better doctors left of the United States as they believed that they were not being paid upon their merit and ability as every procedure is paid out the same sum across the board. The doctors who could not make it stayed put. This was a huge problem between 1992 and 1999 as our best left to the United States. We had to bring in doctors from India where MDs can graduate with a passing mark of 33%. 2. The government in effect insures the doctors and limits payouts and stacks legal procedure against litigants. The doctors are not forced to purchase individual insurance and therefore cannot be forced out by the insurance companies when things go wrong. In the US this is one of the quickest was to get a doctor to stop practicing is thanks to the insurance companies which make doctors pay for instances of malpractice. There is very little redress in the Canadian system and a great amount in the United States as the free market forces out the inept who just come over to Canada. When the single payer system was enacted the government made promises to the Medical Associations that this would be the case. 3. Until the Conservative government allowed for more private procedures there were long lines waiting for procedures. Persons who could pay like my parents went to the US for treatment or operations where there were better doctors. The ones who could not died waiting in line. 4. As there is only a single payer, the government, only procedures allowed by actuaries and various boards were permitted and this was not based on best treatment but on funds available to the specific board. So if there was a medication which would cost $5000 per month no one was allowed to get it - even if you were willing to pay for it. 5. Everyone gets the same service in Canada. You cannot go out an pay to get better service. In the government's eyes it was wrong for the rich to get treated better... (of course they went to the United States) My parents living in Canada carried health insurance in Ohio. 6. In Calgary, the richest city in Canada, there was but a single MRI and a long line up ensured...for humans waiting time was 1.5 years. Five veterinary clinics in Calgary had MRI machines for pets and livestock. Humans could not go to the vet to get an MRI scan. Technologist? Me... No.. I am a Network Admin very good at what I do but I never saw myself as a technologist :) I was a math/Physics major with Phil/PoliSci as minors and a law school dropout. As for people moving off shore to do business, why would anyone what to do business in the US at with it high corporate taxes one of the highest in the world of between 38% - 50% and the highest among industrialized nations. The United States is currently driving business out. It is more lucrative for people to do business in anywhere in the EU, Japan China or elsewhere. Yet the protestors and all the Obama junkies, say that the corporations don’t pay their fair share. Furthermore labor unions work to put the corporations out of business and against business. Steve Jobs would be an idiot to do manufacture anything in the United States with high taxes and labor union protections. The Socialists on the march in New York and Washington, behaving like uncivilized uncouth louts and barbarians demand more free money without earning or achieve anything. The taking of wealth from the productive, taking a cut and handing out to the ne’er-do-wells is unfair and unjust. If you are can’t work don’t expect to eat. Begging on the street for a hand out is by magnitudes more just than having the government use their coercive force to appropriate money for you. That seems to be the attitude of many in the United States. So, if your system is so bad, why are you lecturing Americans on our 'awful' "socialist" medicine? Why aren't you doing something about yours? The funny thing is, the people here in the states who yell the loudest about 'Obamacare' are usually the ones who freeload on the system. They say it's against their divine Constitutional rights to carry adequate health insurance. But, when they have medical emergencies, they go to the ER, run up huge bills and then declare bankruptcy. Who pays their bills? Yep, people like me who have always been responsible and did without luxuries to make sure I had at least some coverage. That's why our health insurance rises each year at (often) triple the rate of inflation. Then you say that sometimes one can't get particular procedures done in Canada and people die? That happens here, too, because the health insurers in cases like mine (rare disease, newer 'experimental' treatment (even though it was proven it worked)) won't pay or dig into their bag of tricks like recission. I had to threaten my insurer at the time with action by the state Insurance Commission to get them to cover my bills. As for Steve Jobs, I used his example to refute your assertion that the rich invariably engage in 'trickle down' economics. Granted, virtual slave labor will always be cheaper than skilled labor in industrialized nations, but that wasn't the point you were making. Besides, if I were you, I wouldn't impune the people who are protesting outsourcing too loudly --your job could just as easily be done in China over the Internet by a admin who was trained at government expense. -Kerry O. |
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Again with the corporate greed. Corporations should be greedy, they need to turn a profit for their shareholders who invest their hard earned money in them. If a corporation was not greedy I will not have any part in them. In fact each one of us is greedy for something. That is what the pursuit of happiness that is enshrined in the constitution is all about. With the highest tax rate in the developed world why do you keep attacking corporations? It shows ingratitude and you are biting the hand that feeds you. Do you really believe that governments create jobs? Stop whipping corporations, no wonder they are moving out and for good reason. Perhaps you envision the socialist paradise of Fidel's Cuba? No one's stopping you. I think if you take ACTUAL dollar figures AFTER all the accounting tricks and special deals corporations get, such as corporate welfare, the corporations in the US do absolutely NOT pay the kind of rates you're talking about. The decade of the 2000s saw CEOs of the major corporations make double digit gains in their compensation packages and Golden parachutes. At the same time, all of us in the trenches saw stagnation wages and ever more expensive health care. The stock market has risen like a meteor, so the 1% who had the inside information made the killling, NOT the guy in the factory for mwho you seem to have so little regard when he wants a fair shake and a small share she helped to create with their diligence and hard work. But hey, if you want to try to silence them by calling them lovers of Castro, don't expect to make many friends here in the USA. People are hurting and your ideological arguments that aren't backed up by the REAL complete facts are just fallacious emotional appeals to ignorance. You might as well just call us Newfies and see what happens. :) -Kerry O. |
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In response to KerryO
Yes we did something in Canada about it. We elected a conservative government which is more amiable to at least a two tiered system. Next we kicked your backsides economically because we followed a more conservative economic policy. We were the first industrial nation to come out of the recession and we recorded the highest growth coming out of it. Furthermore, we spent the least on bailouts. I doubt the the loudest opponents are the most likely to freeload as such assertions which are thrown willy nilly are usually pulled out of one's rectum and flung around. As for virtual slave labor, you should talk to your socialist fellow travelers in Peking about not enslaving their people. As a socialist I am sure you might have some clout with your fellow ideologues. The median rate of corporate tax around the world is between 20-25% yet the united states is 38%-50%. Why would anyone what to do conduct business in the US? You vilify businessmen and corporations as being greedy etc. and you expect them to give you a job? |
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/white-house-kills-long-term-care-program/2011/10/14/gIQAVZLYkL_story.html
White House eliminates insurance program for long-term care By N.C. Aizenman, Updated: Friday, October 14, 4:38 PM The Obama administration ended a major benefit in the 2010 health-care law on Friday, announcing that a program to offer Americans insurance for long-term care was simply unworkable. Although the program had been dogged from the start by doubts about its feasibility, its elimination marks the first time the administration has backed away from a key piece of what remains of President Obama’s signature legislative achievement. From killing jobs to $500 billion in taxes, a lot of misinformation is spread about President Obama's healthcare plan. Glenn Kessler and the Pinocchio scale will help you get to the truth behind the rhetoric. Republican critics of the law immediately said the decision proved that the legislation is unsound and unsustainable. Because the program had been projected to reduce the federal deficit by $86 billion over the next 10 years, terminating it complicates the nation’s budget picture. It is now estimated that the health-care law will cut the deficit by $124 billion from 2012 to 2021, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Known as the Community Living Assistance Services (CLASS) Act, the program was intended to be purely voluntary and open to all working Americans. It would have provided a basic lifetime benefit of a least $50 a day in the event of disability, to be used for coverage of even nonmedical needs such as making a home wheelchair accessible, or paying a caregiver. The program was to be entirely self-financed by the premiums participants paid. Obama officials said this presented them with a problem: If they designed a benefits package generous enough to meet the law’s requirements, they would have had to set premiums so high that few healthy people would enroll. And without a large share of healthy people in the pool, the CLASS plan would have become even more expensive, forcing the government to raise premiums even higher to the point of the program’s collapse. For the past 19 months, experts in the administration have searched for ways to get around this conundrum. On a Friday call with reporters, Kathy Greenlee, assistant secretary for aging at the Department of Health and Human Services, announced their sobering conclusion: “At this point, we do not have a viable path forward to implement the CLASS Act.” Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.) said the finding was long overdue. Gingrey, who sponsored a bill to repeal the legislation, observed that more than a a year ago the chief actuary for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid determined that the program was at significant risk of failure. “I feel justified and vindicated,” Gingrey said. Like other Republicans, he predicted that this would be the first thread in the health-care law to unravel. “The bottom line is as people start to understand this bill, you are going to see more and more of a domino effect,” he said. Sherry Glied, assistant secretary for planning and evaluation at HHS, countered that the CLASS program was an isolated case whose practicality was questionable from the beginning. “There is a very clear difference between that kind of uncertainty and the rest of the law,” she said. |
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Replying to KerryO's last comment
People are hurting not because corporations or the rich, they are because the government is persuing bad policies. If Obama (and yes Bush) had just let the companies fail other more efficient companies would have taken their place. GM should have been alowed to die, yet Obama's administration in essence nationalized GM (not a bailout per se) in an effort to keep his union friends employed. What did the real owners (ordinary people who held stock in the company, retirement savinges etc)? nothing. The fat cat union members got to keep their jobs and hosed the owners of the company. Obama with the help of Goldman Sacks launched a new fresh IPO carrying the GM name. GM should have been alowed to sink, after all the union fat cats are the ones who brought it down. Oh and those retired GM workers really did get to keep their gold plated pensions plans thanks to Obama knew on which side his bread was buttered. Oh jut a FYI, the HP-33 has to go it is a sign of a wannabe. HP-28S 48GX are for the real guys who do RPN. :) |
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tell me what choice a child has who grows up in poverty, is undereducated because of the dynamics of education in impoverished areas, has to compete with those who grow up in areas where 'networks' are built in, and is treated by society at large as 'less deserving' You might want to tell that to Clarence Thomas. Read his biography and you will understand why few now have sympathy for your point of view. when they grow up to not be able to compete, was that really all about what they 'chose',, no Well with training and discipline one can compete. Again I point you to Clarence Thomas' biography. The problem is that many of these ne'er-do-well keep bouncing Bballs around wanting to become NBA stars. That is the problem there are only a few job openings a year dribbling Bballs. It is a choice. what choice do people have who work for a company for decades and find the company outsource their jobs or shut down and because its an employers market find that the income they had EARNED and therefore set their lifestyle around no longer applies Stop driving businesses and the rich out with high corporate and individual tax rates. The rich do not put money in banks; they invest creating more jobs. But with Obama and his fellow ***** (as in idiot, donkey, democrat) trying to sodomize the rich and corporations at every turn why should corporations or the rich outsource overseas? what choice do people have who work hard and get the education but fall upon illness which their insurance doesnt cover, having medical bills which bankrupt them or cause them to loose their homes? What illnesses do they not cover? Pre-existing illnesses? You are darn right that they should not cover these. This would be unfair unless there is a premium. How did people live when the technology was not there to provide expensive medical care? Medical care is not a right! what choice do people have who worked their whole lives and payed into the system and then dont have a retirement because of the companies bad investments? Actually the company pays in your stead. When co-pay investments are made then you can get per amount over a period of time if you did not whose fault is that? Again one of choice. no,, the working poor arent poor because of their personal choices(some indeed are but thats not the broad or singular reason),, thats an easy way to blame the victim, but its misinformation As I have shown each of these are choices people make. There is the 2% of poor who really had bad luck. I don't mind if these are taken care of... by church groups but not the government. using clarence thomas as a poster for how much of a 'choice' the working poor had in their situation is like using the testimony of a house negro to explain how wonderful slavery really was people can achieve IN SPITE of, no doubt,, but they should not HAVE to , it should be a more EQUAL opportunity for all to achieve as opposed to forcing some to jump hurdles to do so and then using them to try to put down those others whose legs might not work as well,,, the stereotype about people 'bouncing balls' as a reflection of the 'working poor' is too out of touch for me to even comment on,,,, the notion that AFFORDABLE insurance and AFFORDABLE healthcare should only be for the healthy is equally out of touch, as most people arent 'expecting' to become ill and shouldnt be punished for not having the resource to purchase insurance they didnt NEED before they were ill the healthcare field (Which reform doesnt really begin to touch, by the way) rips people off in a big way because they have been permitted to,,, its funny how the insurance company can be charged a percentage of what the individual without insurance will be for the SAME services and products its not because those services and products somehow cost less to provide or produce when the insurance company billed them, but because corporate GREED and the selfish tunnelvision culture of egotism has ALLOWED it to continue that way nobody pays the employee in their 'stead' when their iras get wiped out or their retirements so none of these things are a matter merely of the individuals personal choices, but of flaws in how the system runs,,,, Clarence Thomas a HOUSE NEGRO? Shame on you! Are you aware how far you set your own beliefs back with this statement??? You just don't like him because he is a conservative and seen Affirmative Action for what it was and helped strike it down! And once more I am not sure what you are trying to get at here but I can say this, Health Care Reform is a JOKE! We should be patterning a lot of what we do after Germany and remove the Profit incentive to strip away at our wallets. What part of Mandatory Insurance IS ILLEGAL don't you want to get? Just because Obama championed it and everyone wants change so bad does not make this right or constitutional. To force us to BUY into Health Care insurance without any choice in the matter is WRONG ON ALL ACCOUNTS. Can you admit to us Obama sold us out? |
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Why is race even an issue here again? Why do I feel sucked into something I shouldn't? OBAMA SUCKS AS PRESIDENT PLAIN AND SIMPLE. He gave us the change we wanted so badly, a change for the worst! And suddenly Obama is back peddling on some of what he rammed down our throats...
Note this is from MSNBC... BOOOOOOO HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS! http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/14/8325174-obama-administration-halts-part-of-health-care-law So Interesting! NO? Oh but how peaceful is Obama? http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/obama-sends-100-u-military-advisors-uganda-193812911.html Funny, wasn't this similar to what got us in Vietnam? Military Advisers? Obama, you were so Anti War! So whats good my Geshniggie? And he was given a Nobel Peace Prize? For what? Coming up out of the hood? Will they give me one if I figure out how to fart gold dust? How about if I invent an explosive SO powerful it could crack the planet in two? Bear in mind the Inventor of Nitroglycerin and Dynamite was... |
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tell me what choice a child has who grows up in poverty, is undereducated because of the dynamics of education in impoverished areas, has to compete with those who grow up in areas where 'networks' are built in, and is treated by society at large as 'less deserving' You might want to tell that to Clarence Thomas. Read his biography and you will understand why few now have sympathy for your point of view. when they grow up to not be able to compete, was that really all about what they 'chose',, no Well with training and discipline one can compete. Again I point you to Clarence Thomas' biography. The problem is that many of these ne'er-do-well keep bouncing Bballs around wanting to become NBA stars. That is the problem there are only a few job openings a year dribbling Bballs. It is a choice. what choice do people have who work for a company for decades and find the company outsource their jobs or shut down and because its an employers market find that the income they had EARNED and therefore set their lifestyle around no longer applies Stop driving businesses and the rich out with high corporate and individual tax rates. The rich do not put money in banks; they invest creating more jobs. But with Obama and his fellow ***** (as in idiot, donkey, democrat) trying to sodomize the rich and corporations at every turn why should corporations or the rich outsource overseas? what choice do people have who work hard and get the education but fall upon illness which their insurance doesnt cover, having medical bills which bankrupt them or cause them to loose their homes? What illnesses do they not cover? Pre-existing illnesses? You are darn right that they should not cover these. This would be unfair unless there is a premium. How did people live when the technology was not there to provide expensive medical care? Medical care is not a right! what choice do people have who worked their whole lives and payed into the system and then dont have a retirement because of the companies bad investments? Actually the company pays in your stead. When co-pay investments are made then you can get per amount over a period of time if you did not whose fault is that? Again one of choice. no,, the working poor arent poor because of their personal choices(some indeed are but thats not the broad or singular reason),, thats an easy way to blame the victim, but its misinformation As I have shown each of these are choices people make. There is the 2% of poor who really had bad luck. I don't mind if these are taken care of... by church groups but not the government. using clarence thomas as a poster for how much of a 'choice' the working poor had in their situation is like using the testimony of a house negro to explain how wonderful slavery really was people can achieve IN SPITE of, no doubt,, but they should not HAVE to , it should be a more EQUAL opportunity for all to achieve as opposed to forcing some to jump hurdles to do so and then using them to try to put down those others whose legs might not work as well,,, the stereotype about people 'bouncing balls' as a reflection of the 'working poor' is too out of touch for me to even comment on,,,, the notion that AFFORDABLE insurance and AFFORDABLE healthcare should only be for the healthy is equally out of touch, as most people arent 'expecting' to become ill and shouldnt be punished for not having the resource to purchase insurance they didnt NEED before they were ill the healthcare field (Which reform doesnt really begin to touch, by the way) rips people off in a big way because they have been permitted to,,, its funny how the insurance company can be charged a percentage of what the individual without insurance will be for the SAME services and products its not because those services and products somehow cost less to provide or produce when the insurance company billed them, but because corporate GREED and the selfish tunnelvision culture of egotism has ALLOWED it to continue that way nobody pays the employee in their 'stead' when their iras get wiped out or their retirements so none of these things are a matter merely of the individuals personal choices, but of flaws in how the system runs,,,, Clarence Thomas a HOUSE NEGRO? Shame on you! Are you aware how far you set your own beliefs back with this statement??? You just don't like him because he is a conservative and seen Affirmative Action for what it was and helped strike it down! And once more I am not sure what you are trying to get at here but I can say this, Health Care Reform is a JOKE! We should be patterning a lot of what we do after Germany and remove the Profit incentive to strip away at our wallets. What part of Mandatory Insurance IS ILLEGAL don't you want to get? Just because Obama championed it and everyone wants change so bad does not make this right or constitutional. To force us to BUY into Health Care insurance without any choice in the matter is WRONG ON ALL ACCOUNTS. Can you admit to us Obama sold us out? he didnt sell me out, he did what I voted him in for regarding healtcare reform and again, my beliefs are in tact people just need to read the HISTORICAL context of what house negros and field negros were to understand my post,,, house negros who felt part of the 'family' because they lived in the masters house and didnt want anyone ruffling the system because they had achieved comfort field negros who slaved and toiled in the field and worked hard, but because of the system only had a rare opportunity to achieve comfort, UNLESS They fought for it and sacrificed for it in ways the house negro felt no need to do we still have those who reach their comfort level in society and then swear that nothing needs to change and everything is as it should be,, ignoring all those who are still in the field and going so far as to assume they have inferior merit which lead to them 'deserving' to be there,,, others reach a comfort level but continue to fight so that those slaving in the fields have better, more equal opportunities to achieve comfort as well |
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But Obama wrote it did he not? Romney came up with it originally (Romneycare), and the Obama regime copy-pasted most of it. |
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In response to KerryO Yes we did something in Canada about it. We elected a conservative government which is more amiable to at least a two tiered system. Next we kicked your backsides economically because we followed a more conservative economic policy. We were the first industrial nation to come out of the recession and we recorded the highest growth coming out of it. Furthermore, we spent the least on bailouts. And you did most of it on the strengh of your oil revenues and the fact that you don't have the crushing weight of having to support one of the world's largest militaries. I doubt the the loudest opponents are the most likely to freeload as such assertions which are thrown willy nilly are usually pulled out of one's rectum and flung around. You're new here, how could you possibly know? You see it all the time here-- the loudest Obamacare haters are the ones that when asked if they have adequate insurance will try to wiggle off the hook by saying 'It costs too much and it's the Democrats' fault, that's why I don't have any'. They know full well they can go to any ER and get emergency care without having to make arrangements for paying for it. Or, they'll say they are paying off tens of thousands of medical bills by paying 10 dollars a month- which doesn't EVEN cover the interest. Some of them are also people who have their healthcare paid for by the taxpayers. Like you, there is no 'shadow' for them, because they are already provided for, yet call throw around the terms 'socialist' or compare the people that expose their hypocrisy to Castro, Hitler or any of a number of unsavory dictators. As they say in my country, it's pretty easy to complain about farmers with a full mouth. As for virtual slave labor, you should talk to your socialist fellow travelers in Peking about not enslaving their people. As a socialist I am sure you might have some clout with your fellow ideologues. I'm not a socialist. And this isn't a response to the fact that people like Steve Jobs and Apple computer play both sides of the street when it suits their purpose. I spent a lot of years in business for myself-- have you? I'm betting you haven't, so you might want to, as Ayn Rand's heroes have alwasy said, 'Check your premises.' The median rate of corporate tax around the world is between 20-25% yet the united states is 38%-50%. Fine, then YOU show me examples of Fortune 500 companies that have paid anywhere NEAR this figure in ACTUAL TAX DOLLARS AFTER they get all the loopholes their hired help in the US Congress has gotten for them. Again, I'm betting you won't have the mettle to take that challenge because it's far easier to just call me a socialist. Like that changes any of the facts that YOU DON'T HAVE or got from Fox News. Why would anyone what to do conduct business in the US? You vilify businessmen and corporations as being greedy etc. and you expect them to give you a job? They 'give' me a job because I provide them with services and skills that are in short supply that they can then turn around and sell for a profit. Nor do I villify all businessmen, just the hypocrites. I WAS a businessperson at one point in time and I know far better than you how tough it is. That doesn't change my indignation at the things the crooks get away with and those who wave the flag to cover up their selling out of the middle class. Or collect their golden parachute money for running once-proud companies who were community-minded into the ground by changing them into money-grubbing blood suckers who DO get into bed with Communists to get their goods made cheaply. And even if they took away that job tommorrow, I'm still going to eat and pay my bills and helath insurance because I can freelance and use my many talents and skills to fend for myself without the Fortune 500. -Kerry O. |
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Replying to KerryO's last comment People are hurting not because corporations or the rich, they are because the government is persuing bad policies. If Obama (and yes Bush) had just let the companies fail other more efficient companies would have taken their place. GM should have been alowed to die, yet Obama's administration in essence nationalized GM (not a bailout per se) in an effort to keep his union friends employed. What did the real owners (ordinary people who held stock in the company, retirement savinges etc)? nothing. The fat cat union members got to keep their jobs and hosed the owners of the company. Obama with the help of Goldman Sacks launched a new fresh IPO carrying the GM name. GM should have been alowed to sink, after all the union fat cats are the ones who brought it down. Oh and those retired GM workers really did get to keep their gold plated pensions plans thanks to Obama knew on which side his bread was buttered. Oh jut a FYI, the HP-33 has to go it is a sign of a wannabe. HP-28S 48GX are for the real guys who do RPN. :) LOL. Have you EVER constructed a 3D model of... like... anything? Done any SPICE work? NOBODY uses a calculator any more to do anything but quick checks of math. Stick to being a console jockey and let the engineers design the electronics that you probably don't even begin to understand. As to GM, only the speculators rode it to the bottom and were still making money of its dead carcass via arbitrage. And it's not like the company management had any thing to do with its demise while they were collecting their million dollar salaries while making cars that nobody wanted. Now, I understand that arch conservatives like yourself basically hate workers who aren't satisfied with being peasants, but a little analysis would show that GM was more a victim of the huge run-up in gas prices, that made their previously best-selling vehicles unpalatable almost overnight than they were of those awful union workers. Ford had the same deals with the UAW, yet they didn't go bankrupt. And BTW, since Canada supplies a pretty sizeable chunk of the daily demand of oil to the US, I'm sure it didn't hurt your country or job any. And I don't see you saying the energy companies should become more efficient-- they don't have to be with the current market forces at work. Yet they STILL demand their government subsidies, don't they? Conservatives have a fetish about the 'free' market-- they think it's the alpha and omega when it works in their favor, but sing quite a different tune when the economic abattoir comes for them. -Kerry O. |
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Why is race even an issue here again? Why do I feel sucked into something I shouldn't? OBAMA SUCKS AS PRESIDENT PLAIN AND SIMPLE. He gave us the change we wanted so badly, a change for the worst! And suddenly Obama is back peddling on some of what he rammed down our throats... Note this is from MSNBC... BOOOOOOO HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS! http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/14/8325174-obama-administration-halts-part-of-health-care-law So Interesting! NO? Oh but how peaceful is Obama? http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/obama-sends-100-u-military-advisors-uganda-193812911.html Funny, wasn't this similar to what got us in Vietnam? Military Advisers? Obama, you were so Anti War! So whats good my Geshniggie? And he was given a Nobel Peace Prize? For what? Coming up out of the hood? Will they give me one if I figure out how to fart gold dust? How about if I invent an explosive SO powerful it could crack the planet in two? Bear in mind the Inventor of Nitroglycerin and Dynamite was... race and racial stereotypes are always an issue (see post about 'ner do wells' who just want to bounce balls) but , you are correct, the original issue was about whether republicans have come up with ANY ideas for jobs or whether they just want to make EVERYTHING about obamacare...? |
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