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Topic: To trust or not to trust ... that WAS a question! :-)
no photo
Fri 10/24/14 09:10 AM
Being new to the dating world all I have for now is questions, questions, questions... many of them!
I ask myself some of those questions, so I am the only one who can find answers, but other questions would have to be answered to me by the other side in order to know who and what I am dealing with.

Now I am thinking about the difference between an honour and bravery.

Brave ones defend themselves from others. Honour demands defending others from ourselves.

Am I fair? It is an important question I have to ask myself.

How to open the doors of my world to let someone in, but up to extent which doesn't make me too vulnerable, and not HURT this person? Is it even possible not to be vulnerable when one is emotionally involved? No, I don't think it is. So, I have to be brave and accept the fact it may cause a pain.

I guess nobody is perfect and at some point of our lives all of us let ourselves or those we love down. It happens. We make mistakes, learn from them and try not to repeat them. Yet, sometimes we do. It happens also.

So, it all comes to trust, given and expected. Do I trust myself that I can be fair and do I trust someone who may let my trust down, or even worse?

Well, let see..

It takes time to earn the trust. Words are just words. That's not how it is done. Life puts us in various situations and based on how we deal with them we earn or do not earn someone's trust.

Till I don't see it to believe it, I have the right to wait for answers from others. I can do my part, but they have to do theirs.

I think I am fair if I choose not to open up and keep the door of my world just unlocked, but not quite opened yet. Not until the trust is earned.

That could HURT the person who may perceive it as pushing back. If there is no opened communication, it is unfair. I am ready to answer the questions and show what I am made of, but it has to be reciprocal. If not, than it is unfair to me.

Walking away isn't cowardly or dishonorable if one side doesn't feel accepted and/or appreciated.

Being honourable means being upfront and clear about intentions.

Walking away if I feel my condition of reciprocity has not been met is not cowardly.

So I have rights to ask questions up to extent I am willing to provide answers.I think that is fair.

One question answered. Good!

I shall remain in a stealth mode for a while, till I find other important answers.

navygirl's photo
Fri 10/24/14 09:17 AM
I found within myself that no matter how much I trust; I do hold back some things from a person. There are things that happened in my life that I have never told a living soul and will take it to my grave. I don't hold back these things to hurt someone but I do have my reasons. Some stuff is personal stuff and some are things I learned in the military that I simply can't talk about. Sometimes; its just not possible to be an open book and it would truly take an extremely understanding person who would respect it but I have to yet to meet anyone that is like that.

no photo
Fri 10/24/14 09:35 AM
As a former war reporter I can make a safe assumption that we had some similar experiences that are better left in the past and not shared with a person who wouldn't be able to approach them without judgemental attitude and prejudices.

An extent of opening up is important in any relationship. It takes time to get to know someone and feel comfortable to talk about some things from our pasts.

Although I have changed career twenty years ago, some people still make false assumptions based on Hollywood movies and see me some kind of an exotic species.

Some of my acquaintances back from that time, women who served in the forces, have been judged for carrying the uniform and even called names I am not going to quote here.

So, yes, you are right. Nobody can be an opened book to everyone.



no photo
Fri 10/24/14 10:26 AM
Edited by fleta_n_mach on Fri 10/24/14 10:34 AM

As a former war reporter I can make a safe assumption that we had some similar experiences that are better left in the past and not shared with a person who wouldn't be able to approach them without judgemental attitude and prejudices.

An extent of opening up is important in any relationship. It takes time to get to know someone and feel comfortable to talk about some things from our pasts.

Although I have changed career twenty years ago, some people still make false assumptions based on Hollywood movies and see me some kind of an exotic species.

Some of my acquaintances back from that time, women who served in the forces, have been judged for carrying the uniform and even called names I am not going to quote here.

So, yes, you are right. Nobody can be an opened book to everyone.





You are exotic. War reporting....that is part of you. You have your reasons for earning trust. It's understandable. I understand you, but I am a woman, men on the other hand...are a whole different ball of ear wax.

I, am still very protective of my "space", I use my intuition and will give trust until otherwise proven unwise to give it any longer. Strangers I step lightly around...I'll also add in here, that not many people are trusted by me.

navygirl's photo
Fri 10/24/14 10:28 AM
The problem is there are people that won't accept that you aren't an open book and they feel you are hiding something. That is when the problems begin. Most people don't think logically or are reasonable when they are in love; so they simply can't grasp this concept. I think its one thing when something from the past is affecting your relationship but if its not; then I say let sleeping dogs lie. This has been one of the main reasons that I simply don't date anymore as I can't be 100% open to anyone but realistically; the average person doesn't have the logic to reason this out.

no photo
Fri 10/24/14 11:12 AM
fleta_n_mach being protective of your own space is as normal as having a firewall on your computer.
Women are wired a bit differently than man. That's also true. Sometimes one has to literally learn to speak their language in order to be heard loud and clear. Most men prefer things simply put in very few words.

no photo
Fri 10/24/14 11:19 AM
Edited by NoMindGamesPlease on Fri 10/24/14 11:19 AM
I know what you mean navygirl
Perhaps the one who can leave things just as they are and where they belong shall cross your path. I wish you to find him.

vanaheim's photo
Fri 10/24/14 12:28 PM
This is like watching someone ask which brand of muffins they can stuff their face with to help them lose weight: you're just not quite getting the self fulfilling prophecy that is your life.

Trust, what risk? What? Trust the wrong person and you may have to tell them to go away? Woe is you.

Open yourself to others, what vulnerability? What? You might shed a tear over someone else's concerns instead of wholly your own intellectual environment?

Military journalist? You still sound like a wallflower to me. This military journalism didn't happen to be entirely based at a desk with a typewriter did it?

I tender you have to be somewhat detached from reality to foster the ignorant sociological cultivation that some men among all men have tried to simply get in your pants elicits there must be a pot of gold between your legs and thus, something of value is something which can be stolen. But it's a delusion. You actually lose nothing with these oh-so-gigantic risks of diving headlong into whatever circumstantial relationships take your fancy.

A kitten trembling over the boogeyman amongst adults isn't cute anymore, it's disturbing. You should've grown out of it. The "drama" you find many men mentioning they prefer to avoid in relationships is what it is. This is just your theatre, a drama show.

There is no risk. There is no vulnerability. They're both completely in your head.
What you've concisely outlined by any other terms, is simply electing to be afraid to cry over others, and afraid to enjoy yourself with others, unless it's on your terms and has no utterly independent interactivity from them.
It suggests a relationship with you consists of dancing for the puppet master. Now that is no fun. It's a lot like hanging around a vicious child.

And honour would be a pattern of behaviour illustrating moral code of conduct, eg. about the third time you've routinely defended another in whatever fashion you might be thus described.
Bravery would be a willingness to readily enter an apparently untenable circumstance where prudent, eg. one of those situations defending another required you to get within striking distance of a neurotoxic snake to get between it and a toddler, with no time to think or be tremendously tactical, just all ape and hope for the best (of course you might be tactically proficient enough generally to have had previous evasion training and some familiarity with most dangerous species, either way you're more likely to survive a bite than a toddler so there's really no question as to objective obligation as a member of the human community).

Just as potentially offending strangers in the occasional wake up call might be considered brave if one notes being an inherently social species, it's hardly as survivalistic as sucking up to everybody you meet. But then, since any associate fear would be all in my head, what is there to risk but the chance of common enlightenment?
Look at that, an example of proficiency in relationships. Handle my words or don't, up to you. Like everything else in your world.

Like the relationship you're in or don't really doesn't have anything to do with the other person. Asking yourself how to trust when you find trust difficult is like asking how to safely put your arm in a lion's mouth, it's a lion, you don't put your arm in its mouth. Finding a particular person difficult to trust is the parts of yourself you're not listening to saying this is the wrong person. Since there's nothing to lose among adults by trusting anyone at all with anything at all (because adults make insurances regarding anything important), that means it's just a statement that you don't really like that person for this relationship. That's all. It's distaste, not mistrust.
See how it's all on you?

Trust comes automatically when it's actually about trust. There is quite simply no risk to it.

no photo
Fri 10/24/14 01:16 PM

This is like watching someone ask which brand of muffins they can stuff their face with to help them lose weight: you're just not quite getting the self fulfilling prophecy that is your life.

Trust, what risk? What? Trust the wrong person and you may have to tell them to go away? Woe is you.

Open yourself to others, what vulnerability? What? You might shed a tear over someone else's concerns instead of wholly your own intellectual environment?

Military journalist? You still sound like a wallflower to me. This military journalism didn't happen to be entirely based at a desk with a typewriter did it?

I tender you have to be somewhat detached from reality to foster the ignorant sociological cultivation that some men among all men have tried to simply get in your pants elicits there must be a pot of gold between your legs and thus, something of value is something which can be stolen. But it's a delusion. You actually lose nothing with these oh-so-gigantic risks of diving headlong into whatever circumstantial relationships take your fancy.

A kitten trembling over the boogeyman amongst adults isn't cute anymore, it's disturbing. You should've grown out of it. The "drama" you find many men mentioning they prefer to avoid in relationships is what it is. This is just your theatre, a drama show.

There is no risk. There is no vulnerability. They're both completely in your head.
What you've concisely outlined by any other terms, is simply electing to be afraid to cry over others, and afraid to enjoy yourself with others, unless it's on your terms and has no utterly independent interactivity from them.
It suggests a relationship with you consists of dancing for the puppet master. Now that is no fun. It's a lot like hanging around a vicious child.

And honour would be a pattern of behaviour illustrating moral code of conduct, eg. about the third time you've routinely defended another in whatever fashion you might be thus described.
Bravery would be a willingness to readily enter an apparently untenable circumstance where prudent, eg. one of those situations defending another required you to get within striking distance of a neurotoxic snake to get between it and a toddler, with no time to think or be tremendously tactical, just all ape and hope for the best (of course you might be tactically proficient enough generally to have had previous evasion training and some familiarity with most dangerous species, either way you're more likely to survive a bite than a toddler so there's really no question as to objective obligation as a member of the human community).

Just as potentially offending strangers in the occasional wake up call might be considered brave if one notes being an inherently social species, it's hardly as survivalistic as sucking up to everybody you meet. But then, since any associate fear would be all in my head, what is there to risk but the chance of common enlightenment?
Look at that, an example of proficiency in relationships. Handle my words or don't, up to you. Like everything else in your world.

Like the relationship you're in or don't really doesn't have anything to do with the other person. Asking yourself how to trust when you find trust difficult is like asking how to safely put your arm in a lion's mouth, it's a lion, you don't put your arm in its mouth. Finding a particular person difficult to trust is the parts of yourself you're not listening to saying this is the wrong person. Since there's nothing to lose among adults by trusting anyone at all with anything at all (because adults make insurances regarding anything important), that means it's just a statement that you don't really like that person for this relationship. That's all. It's distaste, not mistrust.
See how it's all on you?

Trust comes automatically when it's actually about trust. There is quite simply no risk to it.



I wouldn't agree that there is no risk and no vulnerability among adults because adults make insurances regarding anything important. If it was the case there wouldn't be so many divorces.

You made this an issue of control and domination, which is also wrong. The condition of reciprocity tipped you off so you needed to put me down, assign me an unsuitable role of a kitten trembling over the boogeyman disassociated from reality (which is just one step from calling me delusional) and felt an urge to intellectually burry me.

Because I concluded if someone hasn't earned trust I shouldn't give it based on wishful thinking or something?

No, but because of an incorrect conclusion that I believe I have a pot of gold between my legs.

I must admit that your style of verbally putting down the person you disliked for any reason and who never even addressed you directly is quite remarkable, but I have seen better.

A man with an undoubtful intelligence and education level, besides choosing the words, might also be advised to more carefully choose a target of his rage.

P.S.
Since English is not my first language, it is possible that I made some spelling errors, however, based on your reaction, I think I didn't make judgement errors.

Feel free to continue with finding spelling errors or pointing at grammar flows if you find it entertaining.






no1phD's photo
Fri 10/24/14 03:39 PM
. this is going to require my reading glasses.. isn't it..lol..jk..laugh

no photo
Fri 10/24/14 04:10 PM
nope. No grammatical errors. flowers

bastet126's photo
Fri 10/24/14 04:20 PM
nomindgames, i think you're working through it and going in the right direction! respect is not a right, it's earned, maybe if more people tried that it would be a kinder world. good luck :) flowerforyou

no photo
Fri 10/24/14 05:10 PM

nope. No grammatical errors. flowers


Thanks! flowers

no photo
Fri 10/24/14 05:18 PM

nomindgames, i think you're working through it and going in the right direction! respect is not a right, it's earned, maybe if more people tried that it would be a kinder world. good luck :) flowerforyou


I hope I am getting somewhere. I guess time will tell...
Thanks! flowers

Amelinng's photo
Sat 10/25/14 07:40 PM

Trust comes automatically when it's actually about trust. There is quite simply no risk to it.


'Automatic' comes when you already know the person....then it qualifies as being earned! You would not trust a stranger whom you just met on the streets...there is definitely risks in that! So, this statement is a load of ********!

Attacking someone and assuming the moralities of a woman you know nothing of is downright rude! If you know nothing, say nothing....lest you put your foot in your mouth!


no photo
Sat 10/25/14 09:13 PM
So, it all comes to trust, given and expected. Do I trust myself that I can be fair and do I trust someone who may let my trust down, or even worse?...How to open the doors of my world to let someone in, but up to extent which doesn't make me too vulnerable, and not HURT this person?

I think you are talking more about acceptance and giving up control.

Basically accepting that other people can take care of themselves, make decisions for themselves, and will see/judge you differently than you see/judge yourself.

People are going to be frustrated and annoyed if you try to manipulate their perceptions via controlling the information they receive from you, especially if you rationalize that you are doing it to "protect" them.

It takes time to earn the trust.

Saying trust is "earned" is making someone else responsible for a process that is totally within you that ultimately only has an effect on you and your behavior towards others.
Trust is not earned. It's simply your choice based on your intelligence and facilities familiarizing with their behavior.

Saying "trust is earned" is like saying someone has to earn you leaving the bathroom door open when you pee.
That isn't something someone earns. That's just something you choose to do based on your own personality. Has little to do with them even though you might like to shoe horn some sort of "meaning" to it to make yourself feel important.

I have the right to wait for answers from others. I can do my part, but they have to do theirs.

And (unless they are weak willed) they will always try to determine their own part and whether or not they are doing it.

You do not have any right to predefine the relationship and what part they have to play in order for them to live up to doing "their" part as you dictate.

I think I am fair if I choose not to open up and keep the door of my world just unlocked, but not quite opened yet. Not until the trust is earned.

And if someone wanted to consider that "unfair" and dump you, then they have a right to do so.

Being honourable means being upfront and clear about intentions.

What if you are being dishonest with yourself without realizing it, or you simply aren't smart enough to realize what you are actually doing?


One question answered.

I wonder what question you think you truly answered.
To me all you did here was say "I have a right to my self image, and to impose/demand adherence to that self image upon others."

bastet126's photo
Sun 10/26/14 07:12 PM

So, it all comes to trust, given and expected. Do I trust myself that I can be fair and do I trust someone who may let my trust down, or even worse?...How to open the doors of my world to let someone in, but up to extent which doesn't make me too vulnerable, and not HURT this person?

I think you are talking more about acceptance and giving up control.

Basically accepting that other people can take care of themselves, make decisions for themselves, and will see/judge you differently than you see/judge yourself.

People are going to be frustrated and annoyed if you try to manipulate their perceptions via controlling the information they receive from you, especially if you rationalize that you are doing it to "protect" them.

It takes time to earn the trust.

Saying trust is "earned" is making someone else responsible for a process that is totally within you that ultimately only has an effect on you and your behavior towards others.
Trust is not earned. It's simply your choice based on your intelligence and facilities familiarizing with their behavior.

Saying "trust is earned" is like saying someone has to earn you leaving the bathroom door open when you pee.
That isn't something someone earns. That's just something you choose to do based on your own personality. Has little to do with them even though you might like to shoe horn some sort of "meaning" to it to make yourself feel important.

I have the right to wait for answers from others. I can do my part, but they have to do theirs.

And (unless they are weak willed) they will always try to determine their own part and whether or not they are doing it.

You do not have any right to predefine the relationship and what part they have to play in order for them to live up to doing "their" part as you dictate.

I think I am fair if I choose not to open up and keep the door of my world just unlocked, but not quite opened yet. Not until the trust is earned.

And if someone wanted to consider that "unfair" and dump you, then they have a right to do so.

Being honourable means being upfront and clear about intentions.

What if you are being dishonest with yourself without realizing it, or you simply aren't smart enough to realize what you are actually doing?


One question answered.

I wonder what question you think you truly answered.
To me all you did here was say "I have a right to my self image, and to impose/demand adherence to that self image upon others."


trust is earned. you take your car to a repair shop, get ripped off, will you go back there again for repairs? will you recommend them to another? to think trust isn't earned is rather irresponsible. yes, in the dating world we do have expectations and we do make others responsible for their actions and one should accept that they are responsible for their actions as well. and if either person doesn't like it, they can choose to walk away. and yes, once i feel comfortable enough with a person, and i trust they won't snap a pic on their phone, i might leave the bathroom door open when i pee, unless is really bothers them, and i would be considerate enough to close it.

dcastelmissy's photo
Sun 10/26/14 07:28 PM
Well thank you to all the superior men who, thanks to their know it all attitude have chased a worthy and sincere person into deactivation. I hope you are proud of yourselves!!! You have no clue about trying to understand people and you are to be pitied for your lack of trying to comprehend people who dare to post their thoughts! You are too above us all!!! If you are that perfect yourself why would you be here!!!!! No one person has all the answers! Wake up and acquire some humility and understanding of people's concerns and willingness to understand! You people will never understand compassion for others!!!

Dodo_David's photo
Sun 10/26/14 07:30 PM
huh What just happened on this thread?

bastet126's photo
Sun 10/26/14 07:32 PM

Well thank you to all the superior men who, thanks to their know it all attitude have chased a worthy and sincere person into deactivation. I hope you are proud of yourselves!!! You have no clue about trying to understand people and you are to be pitied for your lack of trying to comprehend people who dare to post their thoughts! You are too above us all!!! If you are that perfect yourself why would you be here!!!!! No one person has all the answers! Wake up and acquire some humility and understanding of people's concerns and willingness to understand! You people will never understand compassion for others!!!


bravo missy!!! what makes me really sick is she was putting her vulnerability out there and they all proved her point, trust is earned. unfortunately, not for them.

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