Before I read through the rest of this thread I wanted to add what I think would help to create a proper definition.

A proper definition is a cognitive construct which should include dominant characteristics or features of the word and address functionality. A proper definition may also include etymology, or the historical reference of the word’s common use through time, thus providing a broader framework within which the construct has developed.

To finish it off:

There are only one's own beliefs,
and what it true for everyone.

As my dad would "oh, a wise cracker are ya?"

Yes.

So many times in these threads the 'semantics' card is played. A single word can have meanings that can totally change the concept of a claim. Often the problem arises when a less common definition is assigned to the word thus confusing everyone for whom the meaning is incorrect.

In this thread we have been dealing with the words, truth, facts, and reality. I see now just how hung up I can get, myself, on a 'common' definition.

Additionally I can see how 'consensus' of wrong thinking can more deeply ingrain that way of thinking, making it very difficult to change. (ie: subjective belief that that belief is truth)

If I am asked to witness an event specifically to provide an accurate account of the event, I will be paying close attention and I will do my best to provide such an account.

I, and probabaly a lot of other poeple, understand that my account is not truth but merely the claims I have made from my subjective memory of only the small part of the event I had witnessed.

Do I believe I speak the truth - yes, I believe my account of the event is given with integrity and honesty so I believe, using one definition of the word truth, that I speak the truth.

However,ODDLY, I know that my account is only partial and is purlty subjective and may not accurately and fully depict "the truth of the matter."

I say that is odd because, even though I have that understanding, I had a very difficult time with this topic and it is all becuase I had an inaccurate understanding of what the words truth, facts, and reality encompass.

I had to relax my mind in the same way you have to relax an injured arm or leg to give complete control of its movement to a doctor.

Thanks Creative for making me relax my mind. I am sure I don't have quite the grasp of this subject as others might, but I have learned somethings about myself and I like that.

Ok, we both began with a common understanding of what a cup and what a table are. You claimed the cup is on the table over there ----->,

I looked over there and verified that I did see a cup on the table. Since we are not both standing directly in front of the cup that you claim is on the table, I would think that the next step would be to verify that we are both looking at the same cup and table.

Perhaps we need to step up to the table together and verify that we are indeed seeing the same cup on the table. Also we need to verify that we are discussing an actual cup and table as you did not include any other characteristics in your claim I am looking for the actual cup & table complete with common functionality. For example, we could be looking at a card board cut out or a wall painting. Facsimilies of things are not the actual things being discussed - are they?

Ok - I looked over there -------> and I verified that the claim "the cup is on the table" corresponds to the cup I see on the table.

Next!

You don't believe that Smurfs exist? Why?

Yes I would agree that the cup is on the table IFF the cup is no the table.

Are yo claiming that the cup IS on the table?

And we still Half Price Bookstore - but it's just not the same. The Library is not the same either - they need a cafe' and an outdoor deck for nice weather and place for browers to sit comfy cozy furniture.

It was more than a book store, it was a place where people had words in common and through those words they met face-to-face and formed friendships and shared thier reading adventures.

When the economy gets better, we really need to rethink the whole library idea - broaden its scope and make it a more attractive meeting and reading place.

If you are a corporation? Do you mean if YOU have incorporated would you get to vote more than once? Vote for what?




Explain what you THINK your ownership of corporate stock has to do with voting of any kind and show how that fits with reality.




WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY????? - you seriously don't think that our mainstream media is capable of educating the masses on the few political candidates they would be asked to vote for? HOW SHOCKING.

How do you determine who the best candidate for the job is?

OK - NEVER MIND
I got excited and posted this before I had caught up with the thread. Creative already suggested reveiwing this link.

But I'm going to leave it in case someone missed watching it.




Also Go to

http://storyofstuff.org/citizensunited/

It is SEASON 2:
The Story of Citizens United v. FEC: Why Democracy Only Works When People Are in Charge:

This goes along, several posts, with your objection to using ( a ) or (the) to prefix the subject. What you refer to as ineffable, (e.g. the indescribable attributes of god), are necessarily ineffable because we are considering an unknown realm which we have both agreed is only a realm of ‘possible existence’ for which we cannot have pre-existing knowledge. To add anything more, (i.e. attributing characteristics to, or describing god in any way) would be “purely illusory thought/belief stemming from purely imaginary objects.”

I think comprehend thus far.



Yes, I agree



Not at the moment – please proceed with your example.

Been a long hot day. I'll be back tomorrow to reply. Thanks

Do you think all humans fear death?

What reasons do humans have to fear death?

Do you think that a belief that eternal existence with loved ones relieves the fear of death?

If the eternal existence is conditional based on an ambiguous set of behaviors does the fear of death increase?

Would it not make sense that if a person believed he or she was following the ONLY acceptable behaviors for eternal life that fear of death would be relieved?

It seems to be that all these beliefs are about relieving fear by creating more fear.

Humans don't need religious beliefs, we are naturally equipped with psychological mechanisms that help us live day to day without the stress of constant fear.

Unfortunately, it seems our own creativity is one of these mechanisms, and so people have created these intolerable religious belief systems.

Why does the big bang necessitate the existence of nothing before it happened?

Universal expansion may indeed be intruding on a lot of something. Perhaps the expanding universe is a bubble within all that something and perhaps the something that the universe expands into becomes part of a matrix that creates the effects we attribute to string theory and quantum physics.

Possible?

AH! Maddow - sigh!

Creative wrote:


YES - wonderful. Thanks for keeping with my example and expanding it to the concept of God.



So as I read the quote above I thought of you saying "What would it take for a 'belief' in a god to be true" It takes only the belief in the possibility of a god to make the belief true.

God's existence cannot be corresponded to (truth).
It is possible that gods exist
Therefore, to believe in god is to believe in its possibility




Much clearer now. I have to continue to watch for this though so I will try to use your prase "what would it take for 'the' claim to be true".

Thanks