I watched the video. It was well done! She's very well spoken, makes per
points, and still keeps it entertaining. Thanks for posting the link.

Whats your mystical experience? Everyone's gotta have one or more. I've
had a couple, and I'll share them. Add your own too.

In highschool, I was sent to a Pentecostal Bible-Thumping place. I
really didnt like it. Still, boys will be boys, and there was this very
pretty girl I wanted to be with. She told me that she was going to some
bible-recitation thing after school, and so, I decided to go too!
[surprise, surprise, surprise].

It was the usual "Fire & Brimstone Revival" talk, complete with a
rockin' chorus, jesus-waves, and an overly dramatic "altar call". Since
I was attending that school, I was used to this kind of production. Seen
it lots of times. No biggie, it was tolerable if I could get Debbie's
phone number.

Somewhere in the middle of the evening, during a "quiet moment", someone
started squealing, grunting, shrieking, garbling something
incomprehensible - she was speaking in tongues. Now, let me be straight,
I've heard 'speaking in tongues' nearly every day in that place - and
they were all 'bogus'. THIS was different. THIS was real. The woman
talked like a possessed demon. Thats what it sounded like. She was
convulsing in an epileptic fit, she flopped to the ground and ppl ran
over to help her. Then, it happened. The auditorium filled with a slight
mist, a gentle shimmering.

In a moment she sat up, the mist dissapeared, and all was well.

--- Maybe it was "epilepsy", maybe it was just an emotional overwhelming
fit, who knows, but, I can attest, this was real.

And in the end, I didnt get Debbie's phone number.

Tomokun & Abra: You poked me into another thought. Abra's point that
"religion encases ppl in ingnorance" is probably TRUE, when it is used
to control large groups of ppl, rather than ppl willingly subscribing to
a particular creed.

Case in point: Judiasim, with its "Law" was the ONLY middle east
religion to state that a legal system MUST be objective, must have
evidence, and that payment for offence must in proportion to the
offence. Further, and most importantly, it was the only legal system to
REQUIRE consideration of mitigating factors. When a boy completed his
studies of the Law, he was given his "Bar Mitzvah". That legal term
still stays with almost every country of the world today, because thats
what it means to "pass the Bar" - completion of studying the legal
systems.

Point being, this "religion" changed the world for the better. It can be
argued that christianity, as a social movement, did great things for the
equality of man (ignoring the organized Church for the moment), and
Islam too has made serious tangible contributions to our modern civil
society. As we know, christianity and islam have a history of oppression
as well.

-Mike

sweetcountrygirl: I agree with you fully. I was looking to hear what
other ppl would say (maybe my views are too narrow... that sort of
thing)


MassageTrade "Does eligibility for US citizenship play a role in this
drama?": Nah, as far as I know all three parties are naturalized US
citizens.

mbcasey "He must let go, come to JSH ": No way! I aint met a lady
through JSH as-yet, so I'm certainly not going to worsen my odds! He may
be a friend and all, but, there are limits. <grin>

Hi Jess,

Seems I just missed you - I was in Thailand about a year ago. Sigh. I
didnt care much for it, and was orginally planning to goto Indonesia. My
grandfather told me stories of his days there - in and around Ternate.
But, plans changed.

Are you from Indonesia?

-Mike

Jean: Dunno if she's moving to texas. I hope so, it will be better for
Raj

Fitness:

You wrote "We all know what the Bible teaches, and many other religious
books, states.... No Sex Until Marriage!" and I'd disagree. I didnt see
anything in there about prohibitting sex between two consenting adults.
Seriously.

You're totally right that the heavy-handed religious tell you that its
"forbidden" per the Bible, but, they're wrong.

Wisdom would tell anyone that 16yr olds really shouldnt be risking
pregnancy, broken hearts and a f'd-up life for a quickie lay. We have
more than enough broken hearts in this country. So, on these grounds I
agree that there is value, and merit, in teaching Abstinence as part of
the entire package of "Sex Ed".

The school systems have only a limited place in "moralizing" the sex-ed
scenario. Limited to teaching teens that "save it till later" to prevent
a f'd-up life. So long as the right-wingers dont expand that moralizing
limit, I'm ok with it.

Just what I need, a pill-popping depressed immigrant who burns
everything he cooks. time to start looking for a new place to live! ha
ha

Do you think she will ping-pong after she gets married? Ping-Pong in the
sense that she'll keep coming back to be "snuggly" with Raj? Or will she
cut off completely?

Whats the survey say?

Jean,

Oh, you asked the right question that I assumed was magically
understood. They snuggle, they're affectionate... just not gettin'busy.
When he asked her to marry him, it was clearly "romantic" and she still
continued at the same level of affection.

Poor kid is all bent.

Scratch the last line "Six months ag" - that was a typo

The guy I rent a house with, Raj, has a "lady" problem. He's in his late
20s, recent Indian immigrant, and has been seeing a very attractive late
20s, recent Indian immigrant lady. They met a few years ago in Vermont,
she was transferred to NJ, and so he followed along. They see each other
daily, laugh alot, cook, watch movies, she even spends the night here
frequently.

Sounds all perfectly normal right?

He states that there never was anything sexual between them (much to his
frustration). By the looks of his face, I beleive the poor bastard.

Six months ago she announced that she was going to marry her college
sweetie. But, still she stays over here. The groom-to-be lives in Texas,
and doesnt know that she is here often. Worse, she doesnt see Mr. Texas.
But she will marry him this May 15th.

Since the announcement Raj has proposed to her. She declined. Still she
sleeps over, and spends alot of time with him.

And he is S-O MISERABLE. He is SO in love with her, and its like
watching someone fall in love with a terminally ill patient. You know
how the story ends!

He knows she will get married, he knows she wont accept his love, but,
he's so puppy-dogged that he really cherishes every minute he has with
her.

So whats his future? In discussing this w/ the 3rd house-mate, we
conclude that she is either VERY CRUEL, or he is intentionally ignorant.
I think she's the type who will continue to pull his strings for many
months to come (once she realizes she married a guy she doesnt even
know, and cant go back to hangin'with Raj!)

Whatchya all think? Cruel? Misunderstood? Whats likely to happen between
Raj & her?

Six months ag

Ya know whats missing from our profiles? A link to the recent posts that
we've made. (I emailed this suggestion to Mike/Van). I'd like to see
what that person THINKS. Most profiles are so short and dont really say
anything - whats a guy to do?

Think of it this way, a guy sees a profile and thinks the woman is
attractive, but the profile says only "I love to read, snuggle up by the
fire, and play with my dog". So, if I were to send an email its, um,
lame. Why? Because the decision to email her was artificial -soley based
on looks. It would be so much better to see what that person has posted,
and chat from there.

Whatchya'll think?

I'd have to agree w/ Morena on this one. First-dates are often enough so
weirdly-arranged that they cant be anything close to "realistic". You
can tell if the chemistry is bubblin' by a touch. If you get a tingle
by touching her hand, or if your body still has a warm glow from a short
& quick "goodbye" hug long after she's dissapeared, then you know that
the chemistry is a definite YEAH BABY!

I've had a couple "first dates" where the conversation was great, and
really engaging, four hours passed in such a short moment, but, there
was no "chemistry". I dunno why. The ladies were attractive, engaging,
thoughtful, but, mutually, we realized there wasnt anything 'special'
there. That was odd. I am willing to bet that if I were to accidentally
run into one of those ladies, we'd probably spark. (mmmm maybe) I think
it was the "weirdness of the 1st date" syndrome.

So, I try not to put much into "1st dates".

"WHAT ONE THING COULD SOMEONE DO ON A FIRST DATE THAT WOULD MAKE YOU
WANT TO SCREAM AND RUN FOR THE HILLS?"

1. Answer the cell phone. Repeatedly. Carry on a 2nd conversation while
on the phone. Ugh. Wether it be work, a friend's crisis, or catching the
latest game-scores. Rude.

2. No real attempt to create or follow a thread in the conversation,
except when its directly focused on themselves.

3. Pointless complaining about the particular place. Say you ask a lady
out, and goto the place of her choosing. There she belly-aches about how
crappy the food is, or how run down the place looks... WTF?

3. B1tchiness towards the waiter/staff. This is an immediate "end of
story" flag. If its outright and in the face of the staff, I'm outta
there. If its nasty mouthiness after the waiter has walked away, then
I'll simply not ask for a follow up date.

4. Someone who thrives on "Put Down Energy". Almost the same as #3, but,
slightly different in that the person reveals through the conversation
how she views herself in relation to others. If its an occasional "so &
so is a jerk", thats fair, and probably appropriate. But, when the
majority of ppl (be it direct, or as a generalization) are described as
"idiots", "jerks", "stupid", "ignorant" then you know she's going to be
a problem. "End of Story" flag!

WOW! I didnt think there would be so many replies to this and related
postings. Thanks EVERYONE.

Funny, the invite to hear about "what pisses you off" had the LEAST
bickering in it, and some of the most insightful commentary. What I got
out of it was a common complaint that many people are, appropriately so,
disgusted by the established religion's "telling you what to do, why,
and how".

Abra, who uses the Jewish mysticism name by the way, makes several
eloquent points. But, still, they're well stated, and have merit, and
Redy also Once a faith movement reaches critical mass, it becomes
self-sustaining by becoming orthodox, and intolerant of dissent. The
history of the church's abusing this is well known, but its certainly
not limited to the Church, look at Islam, at Buddism, at Hinduism.
[Oddly, I havnt seen it in Judiaism].

And that "Command & Control" mentality isnt limited to religions either.
We see it in any social structures - look at the Communist Uprisings
throughout the world in th 50s through the 70s. All the "liberalist"
thinkers revolt, take over, and become the in-tolerant regimes that rot
from within (Red-China, USSR, Cuba, and I'd even now say the USA).

So here's a compromise: Lets agree that organized social structures
usually wind up evil. Be it, Religious, Governmental, Socio-Political,
and even the local Bowling Teams. Lets also agree that p1ssing on
someone's statements of beleif is just as evil.

Lets further agree that polite "sparring", "debating", and "challenging"
of each other is OK. But, if it gets hot, send the other person a direct
mail message "hey... i wasnt jumping on your sh1t" - or something to
that effect.

I want to understand what makes ppl tick, and having semi-anonymous
chat-rooms is a great way to do that. Lets keep it friendly, and open.

Just an idea... maybe a couple of us could meet somewhere for pizza and
laughs.

Any interest? The more the better - that way nobody feels singled-out.

Ok Boys take it outside! Kick each others azz and the winner decides the
religion of the universe once and for all.

Why is it that the ppl who are most "opposed" to religion are the most,
shall I say this delicately, "Obnoxious" about it? I really wanted to
hear about YOUR faith, and why it works for YOU. I didnt want to listen
to someone p1ss all over someone else's viewpoint.

I like debates, I like controversial topics, I like ping-ponging "my
fact beats up your fact". But, damn, there's alot of angry ppl on these
threads. Seems like just discussing religon stirs up alot of
hard-feelings in people.

So, for the record, why are many of you so angry at religions? I can
certainly understand someone being annoyed/angered by the sterotypical
types: Ultra-Orthodox Rabbinical Nuts, Dollar$ for Je$u$ Preachers,
Islam-Fascist Imams, etc. But, I havnt seen many of them here.

Many ppl seem to be angered by the idea that a religion "tells you what
to do, or not to do". I understand where that thought originates, but, I
dont think anyone here really supports that idea. In fact, I would say
that a follower of a given faith is guided by what they WANT to do, not
what they "HAVE" to do. I profess christianity as a guide for ME, not
for you. Again, I think thats how most ppl are on this site.

But, am I missing something? Whats the reason for the real pissed
off'd-ness of many theads? Seriously, let loose, whats it all about?
[Feel free to email me directly if you'd like MikeMonana@Hotmail.com ]

I'm not giving in to security under pressure
I'm not missing out on the promise of adventure
I'm not giving up on implausible dreams
Experience to extremes
Experience to extremes...

--Rush "The Enemy Within"

voileazur:

Hmmmmm...... gonna have to go a little further than just the title. How
about the overall effects/theme of Zoaraster on Zepp's stuff?