yes, sadly if a woman is impregnated due to rape, she should not have the choice in killing the conception. I am sorry, but it is not right to kill the conception because of someone elses mistake (in this case the rapists nto hte womans).

As far as rapists in jail, it boils down to guards doing their jobs and NOT turning their backs on a rapist getting strung up, no matter what their personal opinion is. if you can nto do that then yuo have no business being a guard (and keep inmind my background is security and law enforcement so I CAN speak from experience).

And as far as having them work, I believe the whole jail system needs to be revamped anyway, and it shuold be taken into accoutn that every prisoner be made to work (health permitting) just as you and I are required to work in order to pay our rent and food and everything else. I also believe they should not get a chice in their pay being garnished for chid support. And the thing is this IS doen in some states depending on why the person is in jail.

So the rapist is in jail for life due to his mistakes he made. Why should he still have a choice in paying child support if he fathered a child? you nor I would get that choice, so why should he get it?

no all in all I believe in the rights for all humans, and my belief is that humanity starts at conception, if for no other reason than it is two sets of human dna, joining together to make one set of human dna.

And finally insofar as the woman giving birth and caring for the child? i am not syaign she is required to care for the child. that is why we have adoption centers and agencies, and dont go on about how many kids are waiting for adoption. tehre is not a single infant or toddler in the adoption program right now, as they are the first ones grabbed, because yes sadly too many would be parents want the child from birth, and are nto willing to look at an older child that needs their love and guidance just as much.

bull****.

close your legs!!

As I have said, I dont have sex unless I am willing to have children. And if my would be partner does not agree with me one hundred thousand percent on this issue, then I dot have sex with her, as I will not do something to cause a human to be murdered in cold blood.

You seem to miss the point and have STILL not addressed the issue.

"How can we now hold him "accountable" as you put it, to that victim and her baby who you are forcing to now bring to term?"

If you speak from experience as far as how sex offenders are CURRENTLY housed in a maximum security prison environment, then you will know that everything I have mentioned in my post was indeed accurate. The question was.

How can you expect that incarcerated rapist to now take ANY financial responsibility for the woman who you feel should be forced to bring the infant to term? Please address the posed issue sir if you don’t mind.

go back and read my entire passage, instead of skimming it or blatantly ignoring it. I have stated what can be done to make the rapist responsible, morethan once. Or are you talking make him feel responsible? I am talking about forcing him to work for his prison time, and have his wages garnished towards the childs support, wether the child is raised by the biological mother or adopted doesnt matter.

But in case you still can not read and uinderstand what I have said let me try it this way.

1. arrest his arse and throw him in prison
2. make sure the guards do their job wether they want to or not
3. make him work while in prison (work can be done right at
the prison, he does not need to be in society)
4. garnish his wages, (just like yours or my wages can be
garnished for child support
5. send the garnished wages to the child in question

five very simply steps. Wether he feels a personal responsibility or not matters not. What matters is he is sending money to the child, even if he doesnt want to do so, and he is incarcerated in order to protect the rest of society.

I did in fact read your entire post sir.

A. In most cases, the rapist will never be apprehended, nor brought to trial. This is simply a reality. You are also adding to her trauma by forcing her to give birth to her attackers’ child. In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant.

B. The COs (correctional officers) who work in the maximum security prison environment are often forced to house inmates designated as "sex offenders" in what is referred to as PC (protective custody.) This pulls them out of GP (general population) where their lives would constantly be at risk. This situation makes it VERY difficult if not impossible for inmates of this designation to work.

C. Best case scenario, perhaps we could find him something, anything in the form of work from his cell. In many states, Texas being one, both male and female inmates (of all designations) are unable to earn pay from their prison occupations. I will give you the benefit of the situation and allow for the pay scale that a prisoner may be entitled to. Fifty cents (.50) an hour can be considered very high end. Is that going to pay for the victim’s medical care? Or anything else related to the infant that she is now being forced to carry to term? I didn’t think so.

D. After the prison withholds ALL deductions, he MIGHT be able to send her $20 a month.

It's easy to say what can be done. But, what IS being done?

So, you think a woman should be forced to carry a baby even if she was raped?


Yes I do. Rape is a very nasty and disgusting issue. But it does not condone death, imo. Especially not the death of an innocent child.


You never addressed her question posed to you. You feel that a rapist should be held accountable for not only the rape itself but also the impregnation of the victim.

If the rapist is caught, tried and found guilty, he will most assuredly be sentenced to a substantial term in prison. I hope we are in agreement this is the best outcome as it eliminates him from the streets where he would be free to attack more women.

How can we now hold him "accountable" as you put it, to that victim and her baby which you are forcing her to now bring to term? Let me explain a couple aspects of prison life to you. Sex offenders are very often not allowed to work due to the high level of risk that they will be attacked by other inmates. They very often end up housed in protective custody. Let’s say he is allowed to work from his cell, some states do not pay the prisoners for their labors. Texas is one such state. Even if he was paid, .50 an hour working in a machine shop simply wont cut it. How can he support that mother and baby now? Why would he want to as it in fact earned him a long term ticket up the pike?

Now say the rapist is never caught which is the more likely circumstance to occur. That means he is left on our streets to attack more women. Potentially causing more forcible pregnancies. Yet, according to you, since every sperm is sacred, ALL of these victims will be forced to deliver and care for their rapists' infants.
.


yes, sadly if a woman is impregnated due to rape, she should not have the choice in killing the conception. I am sorry, but it is not right to kill the conception because of someone elses mistake (in this case the rapists nto hte womans).

As far as rapists in jail, it boils down to guards doing their jobs and NOT turning their backs on a rapist getting strung up, no matter what their personal opinion is. if you can nto do that then yuo have no business being a guard (and keep inmind my background is security and law enforcement so I CAN speak from experience).

And as far as having them work, I believe the whole jail system needs to be revamped anyway, and it shuold be taken into accoutn that every prisoner be made to work (health permitting) just as you and I are required to work in order to pay our rent and food and everything else. I also believe they should not get a chice in their pay being garnished for chid support. And the thing is this IS doen in some states depending on why the person is in jail.

So the rapist is in jail for life due to his mistakes he made. Why should he still have a choice in paying child support if he fathered a child? you nor I would get that choice, so why should he get it?

no all in all I believe in the rights for all humans, and my belief is that humanity starts at conception, if for no other reason than it is two sets of human dna, joining together to make one set of human dna.

And finally insofar as the woman giving birth and caring for the child? i am not syaign she is required to care for the child. that is why we have adoption centers and agencies, and dont go on about how many kids are waiting for adoption. tehre is not a single infant or toddler in the adoption program right now, as they are the first ones grabbed, because yes sadly too many would be parents want the child from birth, and are nto willing to look at an older child that needs their love and guidance just as much.


You seem to miss the point and have STILL not addressed the issue.

"How can we now hold him "accountable" as you put it, to that victim and her baby who you are forcing to now bring to term?"

If you speak from experience as far as how sex offenders are CURRENTLY housed in a maximum security prison environment, then you will know that everything I have mentioned in my post was indeed accurate. The question was.

How can you expect that incarcerated rapist to now take ANY financial responsibility for the woman who you feel should be forced to bring the infant to term? Please address the posed issue sir if you don’t mind.



go back and read my entire passage, instead of skimming it or blatantly ignoring it. I have stated what can be done to make the rapist responsible, morethan once. Or are you talking make him feel responsible? I am talking about forcing him to work for his prison time, and have his wages garnished towards the childs support, wether the child is raised by the biological mother or adopted doesnt matter.

But in case you still can not read and uinderstand what I have said let me try it this way.

1. arrest his arse and throw him in prison
2. make sure the guards do their job wether they want to or not
3. make him work while in prison (work can be done right at
the prison, he does not need to be in society)
4. garnish his wages, (just like yours or my wages can be
garnished for child support
5. send the garnished wages to the child in question

five very simply steps. Wether he feels a personal responsibility or not matters not. What matters is he is sending money to the child, even if he doesnt want to do so, and he is incarcerated in order to protect the rest of society.


I did in fact read your entire post sir.

A. In most cases, the rapist will never be apprehended, nor brought to trial. This is simply a reality. You are also adding to her trauma by forcing her to give birth to her attackers’ child. In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant.

Again, it is another issue against the attacker. Dontget me wrong, I sympathise witht he lady in question, I really do. But it is nto right to murder the conception, in order to make life easier for the victim. Now you have TWO victims.


again, I say do not seperate them, and force the co's to do their job in defending ALL the prisoners, not just those they choose to defend. And the sad fact is, guards all over the country let inmates sneak in to these so-called pc areas cause the guard wants to see the guy hurt. it needs to stop and guards need to be held accountable for enforcing the laws and regulations that they were hired to enforce.


As i also said, the inmates shoudl receive minimum wage for the base jobs they perform. Just like you or I would for performing the same job. This wage is then garnished, etc.



in michigan, a person wh oworks 40 hours a week minimum wage is required to pay 88 dollars for 2 children (total). this is both medical and child care coverage. (it is also the base amount with no other considerations in the matter)

So if you have the prisoner working minimum wage (in michigan) 40 huors aweek, that is 88 dollars a month to the child. Is it enough? hell no, but it is the same that a person working outside of the prison system for minimum wage would be required to pay.

Why should the prisoner be required to pay less or nothing at all compared to someone who works 40 hours a week flipping burgers (as an example)?

good point. In my case, i am doing what I can to get back into college in order to get my degree, in order to pursue a field in polotics. Meanwhile, I am tlaking with my representatives (or will be now that I am setled in after my big move from michigan to new york, lol), my veterans agencies and groups (I am very big on veterans rights, etc) and doing what I can to get my ideas heard and discussed.
I am also listening to others ideas and seeing what can be doen with those to make thigns better.

Yes I do. Rape is a very nasty and disgusting issue. But it does not condone death, imo. Especially not the death of an innocent child.


You never addressed her question posed to you. You feel that a rapist should be held accountable for not only the rape itself but also the impregnation of the victim.

If the rapist is caught, tried and found guilty, he will most assuredly be sentenced to a substantial term in prison. I hope we are in agreement this is the best outcome as it eliminates him from the streets where he would be free to attack more women.

How can we now hold him "accountable" as you put it, to that victim and her baby which you are forcing her to now bring to term? Let me explain a couple aspects of prison life to you. Sex offenders are very often not allowed to work due to the high level of risk that they will be attacked by other inmates. They very often end up housed in protective custody. Let’s say he is allowed to work from his cell, some states do not pay the prisoners for their labors. Texas is one such state. Even if he was paid, .50 an hour working in a machine shop simply wont cut it. How can he support that mother and baby now? Why would he want to as it in fact earned him a long term ticket up the pike?

Now say the rapist is never caught which is the more likely circumstance to occur. That means he is left on our streets to attack more women. Potentially causing more forcible pregnancies. Yet, according to you, since every sperm is sacred, ALL of these victims will be forced to deliver and care for their rapists' infants.
.


yes, sadly if a woman is impregnated due to rape, she should not have the choice in killing the conception. I am sorry, but it is not right to kill the conception because of someone elses mistake (in this case the rapists nto hte womans).

As far as rapists in jail, it boils down to guards doing their jobs and NOT turning their backs on a rapist getting strung up, no matter what their personal opinion is. if you can nto do that then yuo have no business being a guard (and keep inmind my background is security and law enforcement so I CAN speak from experience).

And as far as having them work, I believe the whole jail system needs to be revamped anyway, and it shuold be taken into accoutn that every prisoner be made to work (health permitting) just as you and I are required to work in order to pay our rent and food and everything else. I also believe they should not get a chice in their pay being garnished for chid support. And the thing is this IS doen in some states depending on why the person is in jail.

So the rapist is in jail for life due to his mistakes he made. Why should he still have a choice in paying child support if he fathered a child? you nor I would get that choice, so why should he get it?

no all in all I believe in the rights for all humans, and my belief is that humanity starts at conception, if for no other reason than it is two sets of human dna, joining together to make one set of human dna.

And finally insofar as the woman giving birth and caring for the child? i am not syaign she is required to care for the child. that is why we have adoption centers and agencies, and dont go on about how many kids are waiting for adoption. tehre is not a single infant or toddler in the adoption program right now, as they are the first ones grabbed, because yes sadly too many would be parents want the child from birth, and are nto willing to look at an older child that needs their love and guidance just as much.


You seem to miss the point and have STILL not addressed the issue.

"How can we now hold him "accountable" as you put it, to that victim and her baby who you are forcing to now bring to term?"

If you speak from experience as far as how sex offenders are CURRENTLY housed in a maximum security prison environment, then you will know that everything I have mentioned in my post was indeed accurate. The question was.

How can you expect that incarcerated rapist to now take ANY financial responsibility for the woman who you feel should be forced to bring the infant to term? Please address the posed issue sir if you don’t mind.



go back and read my entire passage, instead of skimming it or blatantly ignoring it. I have stated what can be done to make the rapist responsible, morethan once. Or are you talking make him feel responsible? I am talking about forcing him to work for his prison time, and have his wages garnished towards the childs support, wether the child is raised by the biological mother or adopted doesnt matter.

But in case you still can not read and uinderstand what I have said let me try it this way.

1. arrest his arse and throw him in prison
2. make sure the guards do their job wether they want to or not
3. make him work while in prison (work can be done right at
the prison, he does not need to be in society)
4. garnish his wages, (just like yours or my wages can be
garnished for child support
5. send the garnished wages to the child in question

five very simply steps. Wether he feels a personal responsibility or not matters not. What matters is he is sending money to the child, even if he doesnt want to do so, and he is incarcerated in order to protect the rest of society.


I did in fact read your entire post sir.

A. In most cases, the rapist will never be apprehended, nor brought to trial. This is simply a reality. You are also adding to her trauma by forcing her to give birth to her attackers’ child. In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant.

Again, it is another issue against the attacker. Dontget me wrong, I sympathise witht he lady in question, I really do. But it is nto right to murder the conception, in order to make life easier for the victim. Now you have TWO victims.


again, I say do not seperate them, and force the co's to do their job in defending ALL the prisoners, not just those they choose to defend. And the sad fact is, guards all over the country let inmates sneak in to these so-called pc areas cause the guard wants to see the guy hurt. it needs to stop and guards need to be held accountable for enforcing the laws and regulations that they were hired to enforce.


As i also said, the inmates shoudl receive minimum wage for the base jobs they perform. Just like you or I would for performing the same job. This wage is then garnished, etc.






Forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy produced from a rape or incest is unquestionably horrendous. Do you wish to further traumatize the victim? Evidently so. You seem to feel that an abortion would "only make life easier for her."

Okay so your solution to the posed problem of allowing designated sex offenders to work while incarcerated is to simply reintroduce them into a General Population environment? Are you aware as to how over crowded our current correctional facilities are in the US? It’s not a matter of COs (guards) being able to "do their jobs". If you allow inmates designated as "sexual offenders" into general population, well then you will have a dead inmate(s). I guarantee it.

They DONT receive minimum wage sir. As stated .50 cents an hour would be considered high end pay in most cases. In some states, inmates receive NO pay. You need to address the CURRENT situation. You have yet to do so.

ok, krimsa i concede to the fact that yuo are so self-rightous and thinking that yuo know it all that you do not have to allow that someone else might be right, or that they are even doing as you have asked them to do, when it goes agisnt your personal opinions.

i am not going to keep repeating mself when you refuse to listen, and insist on accusing me of not doing somethign that I am doing.

good day to you.

Sir, I have been nothing but polite in addressing these concerns with you. I am truthfully sorry if ANYTHING I said was misinterpreted as otherwise. Good day to you as well.

Sorry for intruding.

But I couldn't help underline the irony of 'daniel's comment in the above cited post, with all due respect to 'daniel', and the legitimate right he has to his opinions.

In reading through the whole thread, and coming upon the comments of this post, I couldn't agree more!!! Truer words have rarely been spoken.

The irony, and my throwness to underline it, is that it doesn't apply to Krimsa, or her posts, but so accurately spells out Daniel's general tone and posting style.

Not that it is a crime for one to believe in 'being right', to 'not allow the same privilege to others', and to 'refuse to listen'. But it is so ineffective when it comes to debating and exchanging with others.

Ironic that you so clearly pointed those ineffective traits in someone else, and yet never acknowledged how solidly anchored they are in your discourse.

I apologize, i did nto mean to suggest you were being rude (and I can see how the way I wrote what I did, can sound that way).

It's just that you are so strong in your beliefs, that you come across not willing to look at what i am saying. For example, yuo say something to the affect of working with the here and now, well thats what I was trying to show you. yes, in the here and now, most prisons (as you said) do not pay their inmates. i say in the here and now, change that. I say change how inmates are housed, and make the guards do their full job wether they want to or not. That is working int he here and now.

No problem. I kind of thought that was what you meant. I just wanted to make sure you understood I NEVER intended to upset you in any way.

Well I don’t think I would use the word "beliefs" as that would smack of a religious conviction in some respect. I understand that you are coming from this position which is fine. I am approaching the issue from a common sense and analytical format. There is a distinctive difference between the two.

I have read every line you have written; twice in fact, so please don’t feel that I am not taking into account your side of the debate. By working within the confines of the CURRENT situation, I am asking that you simply do that. I understand you have all kinds of ideas and ambitions to change things in our society, yet you would still realistically need to address these issues as they stand NOW. If not here, then when? Do you think I would be the only one to force you to focus?

If we take away a woman's right to choose, in any case and not just in the instance of rape and incest which is positively brutal in my opinion, then we open the door for these problems and they NEED to be taken into consideration. The fear is that people will espouse whatever rhetoric sounds good to them as it relates to their moral aspirations or convictions and consistently turn a blind eye to what these "morals" will produce for society at large.

As said before, it's easy to say what should be done. But, what you say should be done is not being done. Krimsa is right. We need to address what is actually happening now.

Well, sorry for intruding once more.

Again, I couldn't help it.

This is a first!!!

'daniel', I sincerely command you for the above apology.

A very rare sight indeed in these forums, and an example for all of us.

lol, I am nto perfect voilezeur (sp?) and I have apologized a couple other tiems in the alst couple years I have been here. I have seen a few others do so as well, although I have to agree it is still a rare occurance.

all babies sohuld be given the chance to live. life is a beautiful thing. and if a woman or a man for that matter, does not want the baby, then they walk. they give the baby up for adoption. and then they are free to pursuse their own lives.
they do not commit murder.
in any circumstance.

I have seen pleny of babies and young children. born medically wrong, CP, severe heart conditions..etc. that have a very minimal quality of life. They are wards of the state in most cases. live in speciality children homes. DOES the government say this life is not worthwhile??? NOPE. quite the opposite...it says and directs medical professionals to do everything available for these children.