and it would be nice if it wasnt filled with hypocrites.

It's the very nature of Christianity (and the other Mediterranean religions), to assume a position of moral superiority.

Not necessarily that the followers of those religions can claim individual moral superiority in their actions, but rather that their doctrine contains the very rules, laws, and definitions of moral superiority. This is necessarily the case because they are claiming that their doctrines are the word of God.

Utimately morals can only have 'absolute' meaning if there is an 'absolute' judge. Otherwise they're up for subjective debate.

It is the very idea that these religions claim to have God's final word on these questions that makes them 'judgmental'.

A Christian is worshipping a judgmental religion and supporting those judgments. To claim that they aren't making personal judgments is truly moot and hypocritical, assuming of course that they are attempting to claim that their doctrine speaks for all mankind.

That's what gets them into so much trouble. If they could only recognize that their religion is their own personal choice instead of trying to push it onto everyone else as an absolute.

This is the problem with the way the religion is taught.

Notice in the OP that the high school kids were saying, "Well I believe, blah, blah, blah,..."

Instead they were just blurting it out like as if it is a fact of life and true for everyone.

This is a real problem with these religions. The clergy of these religions should teach their flocks better than that. They should teach people that the religion is a personal belief system and should not be spoken of in public like as if it applies to everyone.

A person can believe that it applies to everyone in their mind if they want to. But in public they should not speak to other people in such ridgid absolute terms.

It's just poor mentorship on the part of the clergy of these religions. They probably have a slightly underhanded desire to allow this to continue simply because they know that this will create a 'guilt complex' for non-believers and potentially make them start to wonder if maybe there isn't something to it.

In truth the methods that these religions use (in particular Christianity) to proselytize their religions are truly underhanded and disrespectful of all other belief systems.

And because of this I have absolutely no problem whatsoever showing them the very same level of disrespect. Let them get a taste of their own medicine. They don't like it! Trust me!

1) You are correct. Although you didn't use the word, that is hypocrisy.
2) Saying someone is going to hell is called condemning. It's not a Christian's place to condemn another. For a Christian to say "Homosexuality is a sin", that's a different kind of judging called "discerning", which is proper and needs to be done by all people. Everyone needs to discern the right and wrong of theirs and other's behaviors. When such a discernment is brought to the sinner, it should be done in the spirit of love. Without threats. The sinner must understand that their actions are against God's laws, but he or she shouldn't be made to feel inferior for their actions. We are all sinners and it is through the grace of God that any of us go to heaven.

As far as the bible goes, yes... premarital sex and homosexual sex are both considered sins. While I don't agree with homosexuality being okay, I have no right to say they are bigger sinners than myself. I probably do worse things every day. If someone feels the need to attack me for my beliefs, so be it. I don't go around bashing gay people because they're gay, and I've had a few gay friends over the years that know my beliefs.
Everyone has the right to make their own choices in life... it says in the bible that you can either choose life or death. Those that freely do what's considered to be wrong (on purpose and without repentence) are supposedly choosing death, and the ones who repent and try to do better are supposedly choosing eternal life in His kingdom. Who really knows for certain until we get there, but common sense tells me to aim for eternal life. I can only hope I get to that point.

Whoa whoa. You are taking some HUGE liberties with semantics sir. Judging, discerning. Hmmm. Okay. What would give you or anyone else the right to "discern" my conduct based on your own? Conversely, what would give me the right to discern your choices or behavior? Your past "issues" if you will? Also, based on your own misconduct, what would give you the right to do any “discerning” whatsoever? Once again we are getting back to the premise that “people in glass houses….”

"Discerning" vs "Judging"

We have "discerned" in this society that killing and raping and robing and otherwise hurting others is "wrong" and we have passed laws and dealt punishments out for this criminal act.

In our court rooms, we have "judged" the guilt or innocence of the persons accused and passed sentence.

Yes we have the right, in this society to do these things.

Where it comes to homosexuality we can have an opinion of whether it is right or wrong in God's eyes but since being homosexual does not "hurt" anyone we cannot be justified in passing a law against that or against mutual and consensual acts of affection or sex between two people.

Rape is always a crime because it is against another person's will and is a violation against that person.

A mutual consensual sexual act between two people is not a crime. (unless it is with a child)

You have a right to your opinions but you don't have a right to pass laws against acts that do not violate the rights of others or harm others just because you feel they are "wrong" or a "sin."

People should learn to mind their own business and live their own lives and allow other people to do the same as long as they are not harming others.

JB

EDIT:

I just realized that I have no reason to defend myself against your accusations. Anyone who knows me knows how I feel and anyone who would make such terrible assumptions about another is without the ability to be impartial so any explanation I make will be rejected and I will be deemed a liar. You are simply projecting your expectations of what I believe onto me, regardless of how or what I believe.

No one is attacking straw people. You are WAY too fond of that phrase and use it inappropriately at times. All I ever addressed was the seemingly flippant way you were "discerning" people.

Since you don't seem to remember, I am not discussing anything with you. I wasn't responding to your post, which should have been obvious, since I quoted JB's post and not yours. Have a good day.

with101love,

Sorry man, some people are incapable of seeing me make a post without attacking it and/or me. I won't clutter your thread up with anymore responses to their posts. I hope something someone said in this thread was able to help you in your personal struggles.

God bless.

Peace spider.

You are right Spider, you have no reason to defend yourself because I was not accusing you of anything.

I was actually addressing the subject of Discernment vs. judgment and simply giving my opinion. I was addressing both you and Krisma and anyone interested.

To anyone who says we have no right to judge others, I say... yes we do, in the case where they are harming others we judge them and we pass laws and we judge them and we pass sentence.

Yes we have a right and a responsibly to judge others in our society.

And to anyone who who might want to pass a law against homosexuality, a mutual consensual act, I say no we don't have that right as long as they are not harming others.

So why you would get all defensive or feel that I am accusing you of something is within your own mind. I was addressing the subject, not the messengers.

Seriously Spider, I think you jumped to conclusions here. I was not attacking you. How did you get that impression? I would have addressed you directly or quoted your post if I were talking directly to you.

JB

"To anyone who says we have no right to judge others, I say... yes we do, in the case where they are harming others we judge them and we pass laws and we judge them and we pass sentence."

This to me is very different than what Spider was attempting to assert. We as a society choose to live by laws. We put these laws into effect by voting during elections and then once passed, we expect our law enforcement officers to carry them out. Once a suspect is apprehended and charged with a crime, we then have a legal system designed to try this individual (if they choose to go to trail) and then we have a jury of peers that will render a verdict of guilt or innocence, or mistrial, based on the evidence presented by both prosecution and defense. If the defendant is found guilty by these 12 men and women of the jury, we sentence this individual. This WILL NOT occur until the due process has been met.

For someone to presume to “discern” me or anyone else based solely on their own perceived moral superiority is not the same concept in my opinion. What I attempted to explain to him before he became so upset is that I don’t understand why he would feel he has the right to project his OWN moral criteria onto others. Conversely I would have no right to do such a thing to him.

thanx

Im sorry if there was a little arguing. Peace.

God hates the sin but loves the sinner, me included. Have you ever asked the Lord into your life and into your heart? If you haven't I urge you to do so. Accept his gift of forgiveness and admit that you believe his sacrifice for your sins and his ressurection are the central facts in life. Determine to follow him and obey him and find a good church and they'll do their best to help you. Good luck to you.

Being gay is not a sin.

The word "sin" is only defined within religious doctrines. Therefore only people who accept and live under the precepts of religious doctrines are concerned about sins.

I love the Christians but hate the doctrine of Christianity.

It is based on a fictional tale in the New Testament IMO.

Don't be bothered if someone tells you that you have sinned and that you are going to hell. That is a bald faced lie brother, it is not true.

Don't believe that.

Being gay is not a "sin."

JB

"I love the Christians but hate the doctrine of Christianity."

Thats awesome.

You suddenly changed the subject of the thread to this about people establishing laws against "sin". What could have prompted that?



Now that seems like a fairly reasonable assumption on my part. Perhaps you meant to use "you" as an impersonal pronoun? I suggest using "one" as it avoids any misunderstandings.



Or "Everyone"...



It still seems fairly obvious that your comments were a dig at me, but that's okay. If they were a dig at me, you were simply speaking from a position of ignorance as someone who doesn't know me or what I believe.

Bible aside, God gave us a conscience for a reason. If you consider something wrong, it's probably wrong for you. And we can dismiss the Bible, but it still exists. God's word is eternal. He's waiting for us to accept it or not, that's everyone's choice.

I choose to accept God's word at its face value. Others do not. I am presuaded that everyone should study the Bible to gain true knowledge about God.

We need this incomparable book for a right understanding of the great redemptive work of God culminating in the Advent, Atonement, Ascension, and Second Advent of God's only begotton Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. We need the Bible to teach us how ot live right and how to prepare for death and eternity. We need this Book to tell us of future events, how this age will end, the final overthrow of evil and destructive powers, and the coming Kindgom of Jesus Christ.

If you hate the doctrine, what do you have to be afraid of? What is the issue that makes you hate the doctrine? Perhaps you hate the doctrines of the church because they make you uncomfortable? They do that, at times. It's God knocking on the door to your heart.