the Big Bang Theory seems to be a way for religious ex-compatriots to unknowingly push the concept that a God perhaps created the universe

the "One Singularity" that supposedly represents the Big Bang just somehow amazingly just like a God popped out of nothingness providing no explanation where it came from or how the knowledge was obtain for the bang to take place which insinuates that the "One Singularity" is supposedly somehow conscious, all knowledgeable and eternal.. ...

just like any religious belief the Big Bang has become more of an acceptable truth than just an unproven theory as it substitute one concept of God with the same concept of the exact same God placing the followers of the Big Bang Theory aka "The One Singularity" more in line with the religious movement know as "Scientology"

Well, in truth creationism and evolution are both theories. I mean neither of them can be proven, but only creationism actually sets it's goal at a leap of faith. The problem with the "religion" of evolution is that evolution is the result of scientific minds. Scientists love thier proof, being able to show that something happens (ed) 95% of the time (or at least that's the old error allowence).

We all know that the truth is somewhere in the middle, it always is. Neither theory is correct. Let's assume there is a God, and for this example only the one. Do we honestly believe we KNOW how he created the world? How could we, when the creationist stories always say that man is the last thing he made? How can we honestly say "oh this is how he created it" when no one was around to see it?

Now let's assume that there is no god(s). If this is true, then this so called universe we live in, and all of it's inhabitants, how long has it been here? What was here before that? If nothing existed before this universe, where did the mass that exploded come from?

Neither side can justify thier so called truths, so the answer must lie elsewhere, and until we unleash our minds from our archaic traditions, we will never find it.

The only thing that makes the BB an “acceptable truth” is that it provides an explanation for “the current state of the universe” that is at least as verifiably consistent as anything else.

It’s not saying “This is definitively the way it is.” It’s simply saying “This particular way does not appear to be in direct conflict with any observed phenomena.”

I don’t see what that has to do with any “religious movement”. I’ve never heard of anyone worshiping or praying to “The One Singularity”.

Not really.

On the contrary the Big Bang theory has come a very long way from what you've just described. This is mainly due to the research of Alan Guth and all of the other scientists who have contributed to Inflation Theory since that time.

Inflation theory does not begin with a singularity, but rather it begins with what is called a 'false vacuum', this is a very well-described mathematical description of a quantum field called a Higgs field.

Give a false vacuum Alan Guth, along with many co-contributors, have shown how everything we see around us could have naturally evolved without even violating the laws of conservation of energy.

Of course, you could claim then that the False Vacuum, or the primordial Higgs field is then the mind of God.

But what's the difference?

How do you explain how the universe came to be? Or do you just assume that it always was? Either way, isn't there still a mystery of the fact that anything exists at all?

Isn't that 'mystery' ulimately what people are calling 'god'?

Except for the Christians who have taken the mystery out of God and made him into a jealous zoo keeper who hoses everything down once in a while and abuses his son to scare his pets.

"RoamingOrator"..that's my point that both are only theories or belief but both are being presented or defended as being truth

"SkyHook" the movement of keeping the God but dumping the religion..better known as spirituality

the same can be asked of God and the one singularity


so..er...Abracadbra are you saying that you are unsure of your existence to yourself?


believers claim to know God ..so there can't be any mystery


all Gods do that

Read "The First Three" Minutes by Stephen Wienburg then come back and we can have a meaningful conversation on this topic.

You should get a note pad and pencil before you read it.

There will be a test.

This is . . . uhhh . . . nvm . . . . sigh . . . so instead of my making fun of you, I am going to ask a simple question.

Do you think since no one was at the seen of a crime there is no way to determine who did it?

___________

The big bang says NOTHING about what happened before the singularity . . . so to infer any kind of first cause, or creator is totally made up.

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Creationism is NOT a scientific theory. To be a scientific theory is would need to be able to make predictions about why nature is the way it is based on the evidence of the theory.

Creationism is basically giving up trying to understand the processes of nature. God did it is where it begins and ends. It explains nothing.

I’m still failing to see a connection between the Big Bang Theory and anything either spiritual or religious.

"Bushidobillyclub" ..or someone may tell me to read the Bible or the Koran or watch episode 800 of the teletubbies which is why I rather read your veiws and not those of Stephen Wienburg ...

if you that may have read "The First Threee Minutes" but yet cannot condense what he wrote into explainable concepts using your own words then what would be the point of me reading it

besides he is not here to ask question to ..also you are assuming he have written something that has not been written by someone else and/or read by others

I agree Skyhook.

I can look at something I think is marvelously complex, sure I have the right to say OH MY . . . GOD DID IT . . .

But that doesn't endow it automatically with spirituality. NOR make it true.

Then again, some guy claimed that golden plates where sent down from heaven. (this guy was illiterate btw) that only he could read, and hired another guy to write down (again because he was illiterate) what was said on these plates, but he wouldn't let that guy see the plates, so he set up a carpet and spoke across the carpet for the literate idiot to transcribe for him what was said on these magic skydaddy plates that no one saw except this illiterate guy, then once the transcription was done, the magic golden plates disappeared supposedly back to heaven . . . .

Yet alot of people believe that including a former candidate for pres 08 . . . .

And I am supposed to respect THOSE beliefs just because everyone has a right to there beliefs supposedly and that isn't supposed to be questioned . . . . sigh.

But never the less because someone believes it again doesn't make it true, no less sensible.

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Funches in some topics there is no cliffs notes that will get you to an acceptable understanding in any kinds of shortened time period.

Inflation, the BB, Relativity, Quantum mechanics . . . these are all subjects that don't take kindly to paraphrasing. hehe.

No offense intended.

"Skyhook" the connection was somewhat explained in the original post referring to religious ex-patriots ..as some turn away from the impossible rules of their religion their sunday school programming subconsciously requires then to keep the God or seek a subsitute God ..the big bang theory meets this requirement as it provides a concept of a God called "The One Singularity"

again Bushidobillyclub those subjects you just named has been discussed in this forum numerous times ...surely those concepts existed before Stephen Wienburg popped out of the womb ......or is it that you yourself lack the capability to discuss them

I see what you are saying here Funches, what is interesting is, that there is more then one singularity in our universe, so why do you suppose they would think that the singularity that began our universe is unique? If a singularity could be god, and there was more then one . . . .

Its fallacy all of it. I don't really see the need to label anything god unless you label everything god, which to me is the same thing.

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Response.
Stephen Wienburg and Alan Guth discovered Inflation theory.

To really understand inflation theory you need to have a solid grasp of at least relativity and scalar field theory. If you wanted a quicky I posted some links to some videos from Stanford and UC Berkley courses in the Quantum Mechanics thread.

To tell the truth I am studying for a math test and don't have the time to go into it in depth or I would try my best to explain the theories.

Maybe if Abra was feeling generous he could fill in.

Ok, now I see what you mean - the sigularity as a replacement for god.

I just don't know that it actually happens the way you describe it.

I know a few people (myself included) who have "turned away from the impossible rules of their religion" at one point or another. But in all the cases I'm aware of, they didn't substitute a materialistic theory for their spiritual beliefs. Quite the contrary. They all seem to have evolved a set of beliefs that were, if anything, even less dependent upon physical laws than the original beliefs that they turned away from.

^^ and the turning away is really pushing back the line at which the god gap exists (IMHO ), as new realms of knowledge shed light on more and more things previously attributed to a god that is at the helm, the further back his active control gets pushed.

He is at first the great puppet master of the universe, then as you acknowledge natural processes that always follow within given probability curves, you start to push back as the miraculous becomes the processes given a context or situation and god is pushed back to the title of "great coder" of the reality program . . . then as the code shows itself to be defined by the physical constants of particles, and wave interactions it gets pushed back to setter of those physical constants . . . if we ever discover what mechanism sets the characteristics of the fundamentals of a given universe some will then acknowledge that god is the setter of our next level of turtles.

Skyhook does one better and sets it beyond all things physical, but what exactly "physical" is not yet known . . .

Jeremy

since they may not be into the religion any longer is why it's not that someone would come right out and say that the One Singularity is God ..just an subconscious subsitute for God to place them back into a form of mental contentment they once had with the spiritual God



don't worry "Bushidobillyclub" there isn't a scientific concept that hasn't been explain in atleast one episode of "Star Trek"

right you are referring to spirituality when the person keep the god but dump the religion and need no god replacement while they replace the religion with their own brand of laws ..but there are those that may just reject all religion along with the God and turn to science while subconsciously replacing God with the One Singularity

The theory of evolution has a great deal of supportive evidence to lend credibility to its claims. Creationism, not so much and on the contrary, it really does not seem feasible at all unless one simply chooses to accept its premise.

I STILL am having a hard time understanding exactly why some people seem to feel that Evolutionary Theory is somehow akin to a religious belief. If you choose not to accept the theory of evolution there is no one to tell you that you will now burn in hell. That might be one distinctive difference right there.