Faith can be described as the degree of uncertainty one has for a person place or thing,.. in layman’s term it can be referred to as being wishful thinking or taking a gamble..But once someone claim faith to be more than hope it becomes witchcraft

to claim that occurrences has taken place or will take place because of one’s faith places faith beyond hope and into the realm of possessing supernatural powers in which the believer either believes that by having faith they have the power to induce those occurrences or have the power to induce a divine entity to grant their wish for the occurrences to take .

this places faith beyond the realm of hope and into the category that includes magic, a genie in a bottle, in league with Satan or the person believing they are God

one can claim to have faith but once they try to wield it …it becomes witchcraft

Interesting, however most studies demonstrate that the people already know that they are fakes in this sort of thing. For example, who remember Marjoe, the famous little kid preacher, who later made a movie on the how tos: how to use music, what to say and when, in order to get the people to part with their money. Studies of Shamamism relate that the Shaman knows he is a fraud, but is using it to help people; Another example is, the guy in Cambodia who used the knowledge of when the Mekong floods to wow the poor illerate peasants into thinking he had magical powers. If you do not admit to the fraud to yourself, you are seriously deluded and can cause a lot of harm. I wonder what Benny Hinn thinks about himself.

I guess you have never had a miracle funch......but I have many so hmmmmm.


I would say not even close to the same level.....

*shakes her head...*

That is not the definition I have for faith. Mine is:

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. Hebrews 11:1


Everyone has faith. We just have faith in different things.

Before you sit in a chair you don’t check to see if the legs will support you and hold on to the back to steady it when you sit down. No, you just pull it out, put your back to it and sit. You had faith that chair would stay there and that it would hold you.

When you get ready to go to work and go outside and start your car, when you put your key in the keyhole and turn it you have faith that your car will start. Your not worrying, ‘I wonder if my car will start today…I hope there won’t be any problems today’ (that is unless you’ve been having trouble lately). You have faith that once you turn the key, the car will start and take you where you direct it to go.

When a close friend tells you that they are going to come by after work is there a need to wonder ‘is she really going to come over? I wonder if something will come up?’ No, you believe that she will keep her word because of your relationship with that person.

Faith in God and ‘possessing’ the things that he says we can have is believing that He will do those things that He says. He is not a man that he should lie and he is faithful to keep all His promises. He is the same yesterday, today and forever!

To me, this is witchcraft:

Deuteronomy 18:9-11 (New International Version)
9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead

1 Samuel 15:22-24 (King James Version)
22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
24And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

Galatians 5:19-21 (New International Version)
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

it's a thin line between faith and fakery...to induce a sense of faith is not fakerey that is what faith is for to induce a state of peace or contentment to a given situation one may feel they have no control over ..

but if the faith that was induced keeps one from making life and death decisions and placing those decisions into the hand of God then faith becomes fakery on the part of the inducer,foolishness on the part of the inducee and at that point falls into the realm of witchcraft

"feralcatlady" ..there are no miracles that can't be explained away logically ...so let's give it a try ..you tell me your miracle and I will explain it logically and could probably give you the episode of Star Trek it was on

"ljcc" ..are you trying to induce shaken baby syndrome

Well now I hope we don't start an argument with the Wiccans who may not take to your definition of witchcraft. They will point to an established herbal lore and other remedies which have been proven helpful over the years.

Who said anything about Naturopathy?

I'm all for it! I prefer organic as well.

"Laura" ...if one were sure then why would they need hope ...unless they were unsure




this is vague and doesn't indicate if the other human senses play any part..which means the message is trying to be deceptive

"Laura" this is not faith..you are describing the laws of physics ..if you sit in a chair or if the car won't start mean it does so because of gravity or time worn the materials down or someone constructed the chair or faulty car parts so that it will break or malfunction

to then say that you have faith that the chair will never break or that the car will always start means you are controlling the laws of physics and that you are God or doing witchcraft

ok well let's see about your theory. I was in the process of taking care of my mother. At this time I was not saved. I came home to get some clothes and was out in my driveway. I looked up to the sky and said ok God if your real give me a sign. Just at that moment thousands of lil lavendar butterflies were all around me. Never have I seen them in lavendar which was mine and my moms favorite color. I have however seen them in pale yellow. We are not talking a few butterflies here we are talking thousands of butterflies and I was touching them all around me and then they were gone. The whole thing took about 2 minutes.

Now if you say anything about grieving or just so sad that I was having a delusion..No I was not. First of all I was prepared for her to pass. And second I was not sad at all but seeking. It was very very real. There were a total of three times the Lord showed me. I will give you one more. When I went back up to my moms. She was talking to her parents who had passed many years before. My mom was saying, "No mom and dad I can't go. Who will take care of Bill and Debbie. I said mom you go I will take care of dad and dad will take care of me. She was looking right at me. Smiled and said I love you baby girl and passed away. Again She was not delusional, she was not so sick that she did have control of her mind, she knew exactly what she was saying. So for me that is the proof I asked for and the Lord & Savior showed me.


And since then I have seen the Lord show miracle after miracle. And does this make me special or anything...No because many many people have this happen when you give your life to the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind...This is what the Lord blesses us with.




"feralcatlady" ..there are no miracles that can't be explained away logically ...so let's give it a try ..you tell me your miracle and I will explain it logically and could probably give you the episode of Star Trek it was on

Hmmm, I think, going back to your original statement, that for many organized religions, it must be true that a whole bunch of fakery and stuff is needed. Look how the Xians refuse to view the objective research into the history of their religion and bible, if their faith was truly one of faith and peace it would not matter. Look at the Muslims and the Koran. Fundamentalist Jews and the OT. Karen Armstrong stated that by definition fundamentalism is not religion but a cult. This is also supported by people such as Hank Hanegraaf's Xianity in Crisis. So I guess a lot of what we see is actually cult-like behavior, etc. and not true religion of love peace and understanding. Hey what is so wrong with peace love and understanding?

it also been prove over the years that an ice pick in the skull can cure headaches

My relationship with Jesus Christ is just that a relationship. I don't care what religion people are. Religion is man made. My relationship with Christ is mine. I have my church for fellowship and for true friendships. If one has a baby all are there. If one is sick all are there to pray, If someone needs a car, we rally and help, if someone needs help in moving we are there. I love my church and my church family. And yes I consider us a very lucky church because we are a mighty praying church and a mighty giving church.

*rolls her eyes....*

Here is my definition of hope – waiting expectantly.






What is vague about CERTAIN ?

This means without a doubt no matter what I see, hear or feel.

I heard a nail, works three ways, distraction, placebo and draws blood away from tight veins/arteries.

"feralcatlady ...out of respect I can't make a comment on your mother's death or take away from the memories of your final moments with her ...it would be cruel to do so

so could you give me some other examples of miracles so I can neutralize them