OK.....One more time....

CHRISTIANITY is NOT about RELIGION !!!!!!

But RELATIONSHIP !!!

R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P ....BACK WITH GOD ALMIGHTY!!!

MADE AVAILABLE THRU CHRIST JESUS.

The ONE WHO IS The BRIDGE .....

THE ONE WHO CLOSES THE GAP....

BETWEEN MAN AND GOD....

AND

BRINGS MAN BACK

INTO FELLOWSHIP

AND

RIGHT STANDING

AND

RELATIONSHIP

WITH GOD ALMIGHTY ONCE MORE....


JUST LIKE IT WAS IN THE

BEGINNING!!!!!!!!!!

MAN MADE RELIGION!!!!!!!

NOT GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DON'T BLAME GOD FOR WHAT MAN DID NOW!!!

GOD WANTS A RELATIONSHIP BACK WITH HIS CREATION....

NOT NOT NOT SOME MAN MADE RELIGION!!!


!!!!!!...R---E---L---A---T---I---O---N---S---H---I---P...!!!!!!

"Christianity" is a term that means a religion Morningsong.

No matter how much you repeatedly say its not, it still is.

Perhaps what you are is different, then if it is, then find a different name for it.

Jeannie...

I realize Christianity is listed as ....

and is recognized as one of the world's religions.

BUT Jeannie.....

a person

is NOT a christian .....

just because a person joins the christian " religion ".

A person ONLY ONLY ONLY becomes a CHRISTIAN

WHEN

THAT

PERSON

JOINS

JESUS!!!

NO OTHER WAY!!!!!

Well fine MorningSong.

You have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

I have a relationship with God through the Moon Goddess.

How's that?

Can we worship side-by-side?

You worship Jesus, and I'll worship the Moon Goddess and we'll repsect each other's views of God?

Can we do that?

And if an atheist wants to video tape our cermonies and make a sit-com out of it, we can can both embrace that too, and even laugh at the sit-com if it was done well.

How's that?

Yes, There is a GOD

There, the definative answer to the question

That may be the answer to the Title of the thread. But the question that was truly raised in the OP was quite a bit different.

The question of the OP (actually more of an accusation) was:

Are people who don't believe in a God immoral?

Or more to the point, "Are people who don't believe in a specific religion immoral people?"

In fact, since the OP contains quotes specifically from the Bible the OP was truly suggesting that anyone who doesn't believe that the Bible is the "word of God" are immoral people.

You really need to read the OP in more detail Sharp.

Don't trust the thread titles, they can be grossly misleading with respect to what the Opening Post was actually trying to insinuate.

In fact, it wasn't even posed as a question at all all. It was a blatant accusation:



And clearly since several quotes were included specifically from the Bible the OP is implying that the Bible Speaks for God.

So where is the author of this thread anyway?

Would a Wiccan be considered a moral person? They believe in God. They just don't believe that the Bible has anything to do with God.

How about a Muslim? A Jew? A Buddhist? A Taosist? A Shaman?

Or was thread just a blatant attempt to proselytize the Bible as the 'sole word of God' and denounce everyone who doesn't believe in the Bible as being an immoral person?

I believe in God. But I don't believe that the authors who wrote the Bible spoke for God. I believe that the authors of the Bible were immoral people who used a ficticious concept of God to justify male-chauvinism and the murdering of 'heathens' (i.e. anyone who doesn't agree that their book is the word of God) Not to mention teh stoning to death of anyone else they didn't approve of.

Is that moral behavior?

I think not.

Right on Abra! The O.P. Author stated in an earlier post that he was finished responding, so he just dropped his load and left I guess. I think his post was very insulting to any non-Christian or atheist. But that's his world and his opinion.

He basically called them all "immoral" even those who believe in an unspecific "creator" but not the one he refers to who would try to hold final authority over us and judge our moral fiber.

People who are their own final authority and people who take responsibility for their own thoughts and actions in order to be free to choose how to live their own lives are a danger to the institution of religion and are frowned upon by the Church.

This kind of rhetoric is preached in the Churches in a disparate attempt to hang guilt trips on people and keep the flock in line and under their thumb.

The church does not want people to grow up and be their own authority. They don't want people to be happy and well adjusted law abiding moral citizens outside of their control so they make up this kind of explanation.

They attempt to paint the picture that anyone who does not believe as they do are morally bankrupt. It really bothers them that there are happy well adjusted law abiding moral people that do not belong to their religion.

If you think "Our Father in heaven" is angry,

WAIT TIL MOTHER FINDS OUT!!!

"have no other gods before me"???

was it not said, "god is love"???

so have nothing and let nothing come before love, which certainly seems to be belief as well???

the "love of god", was said to be love for the "whole world"???

how does belief make it "only those that believe as i do"???

how does belief make belief more important that human life???

how does belief come to inspire to worship "one", called jesus, when this same jesus, said "GO, and love thy neighbor as thyself"???

and also saying, "love what your belief consider to be the "least of these", as no doubt, a belief force the heart to consider all "outside" it's belief as the "least", in all ways, of truth, of knowing, of insight, of even human value and worth in due time???

certainly affirmed as well, this same jesus saying, if you say and claim you love me, as jesus, then follow my ARROW of truth, my words, this ARROW pointing constantly to OTHER PEOPLE, even in the saying, "all ye are gods", so to love god, is to love each other, even in the saying, the GREATEST COMMANDMENT, NOT SAID to worship the "name of jesus", but the ARROW of the words, to LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF???

it seems clear, the love in the heart, decide the definition of the "me", in the saying, "have no other god's before me"???

if something but seeks absolution for itself, and heavenly procurement of eternal life, and saving for itself, it define words thru love of itself most, so cling to a "belief as god", and seems to be why text also damned belief, as cursing oneself, seperating oneself from god, or from the ability to love other's, god again called love???

was it not also said, "ask for god to come into the heart", so to ask for god to come into the heart, is to ask for love of other's, the tell of love being "love of all people in the world", with no qualifiers of belief???

god called "unconditional love", so what that know god, allow belief to make love conditional???

is it not more, the heart have a "imprint" of unconditional love upon it, witnessed in the say, my "laws" written upon the heart of each human, and the law of god was unconditional love???

is it more this "unconditional love" is sought to be found in other's, and used as a "qantifier" of other's, and not used to guide the self, but reflected outward as a law for other's to follow, of if they are to be considered good, to the believer in such things as text???

what that convince itself it love, by professing to love a name as "jesus", will even ask god to give love for all other's, also written in the very same text, was the only honorable and good request to make of "god", so the only answer's from true love or god, will be more information, that free the heart and allow the heart to love all???

it seems redily apparent, the entire focus of the words of jesus pointed at the only god, as love of all other's, so the only peace, so the only truth, was what does not allow anything to convince self there was a good resson to not embrace all as equal to self, in all ways, and certainly it seems belief force the mind to only spot each day the more, what it deem is opposite of it's belief, and declare all this as less, and evil, and not good???

if the brain, one day, see something it think is "stupid", and this is heard naturally by the brain, natural and common to all, but if this is left within, as some "truth" to self, then each day, more "stupid" will be defined, so added unto the mind, or to WHO self is???

if one look at all the ways the brain work, not just comparing it to some religion, but to all the ways of nature and the total environment, said to be made by this same god, then it is more redily apparent what is actually less good, or more good, and what "perception" will actually create more "perceieved evil", by first believing in it, so reacting to it, with each word and action???

if one has never had a "red honda accord", but now just purchased one, then each day, the brain will now spot more "red honda accords"???

because it is now more "real" to self, as self has one, and what self believe, or have, the brain use as "quantifier" for who self is, so then "definer" of what other's are not???

it work the same with with the brains perception of all things, and belief dictate the perception???

and, the "perception's sight", is compounded in all things, not just added to with simple adding, the same as all things on the "outside", as the need and demand for all things in environment compound expidentially???

one can use any commodity???

if one take electricity, the demand increase at about 7% each year, about the same for all human "needed" commodities, and at this progression rate, in the "tenth" year, the demand for electricity, is more than all the total electricity used in the pasy nine years???

and incredible "silent" increase, because self is "in" the increase, so does not see it???

so take now the word and definer of "stupid", just a random word, but certainly belief make self think, all outside "know less truth", than self???

now, replace "stupid" with the number 2 instead, and each day, as self meet "humans just like self", the belief spot "opposite", so another 2 is spotted, now added to the brain, the perception, but with each one, it become compounded as 4, then as 8, then as 16, then as 32, 64, 128, and so on and so on, until the appearence of "percieved evil", outside of self belief, consume every ounce of human love, and humanity, and confidence in other's, until there is actual hatred and distain for what does not belief as self???

is this the very reason that this same jesus whipped and screamed at "self professed truth belief leaders"???

why is it thought that jesus was meek and kind old lady???

surely it is seen the very wrath came forth, not because of arrogance, of self better, but from seeing what this "thinking and belief", would cause for many humans later, in the future, after he was gone, and not wanting any OTHER HUMANS, ANY OF THEM, to have to suffer at the hands of ruthless killers, that used "belief" as a reason to rationalize brutalness, and torture, and human suffering, and for not deeming other's as valuable as self???


just question's in my mind, as of course, one ask questions to see and hear from other's, allowing other's to be the tell of if self is delusional or not, allowing other's words to be the tell and judge that guide self, as of course, self be in self, so self is hard to see, and to select only from some other's, what self is, is but self biased "wished" feedback???

so these are not proclamations, nor professions, nor statements of fact, nor statements of truth, rather just theoretical questions of relativity in my mind.

it shall take divinity in the flesh, proof, to seperate out all doctrine and dogma, from what is real, but this time, there will be no holds bar in any form of power, or control over all matter and substance, and due to this, some will call it extraterrestrial, some will call it angel, some will call god in the flesh, some will call it the beast, some will call it satan in the flesh, but indeed, as with all things seen and heard, the love in the heart, will decide how the eye's and ear's interpret, and what is believed, be what is given, and these thing shall come to be by the nine day of the nine month of this nine year.

now this is different than all the rest, as this is indeed a statement, made and stated as fact???

is it ignorance, idiocy, unsanity, delusion, illusion, confusion???

such things as this should always be considered all these things, unless and until it happen, and only then is it to be considered reality, as of course, reality and truth and real and god are only but all things that actually happen???

it was once said, in the same text used to condem, "one soul be worth a thousand lands"...

the heart that seek to procure for itself, and have riches in heaven, and make itself first, instead of last, define as each "soul" it save, provide itself a inheritance of a thousand lands, and the soul with love, define one other human soul, is worth giving up a thousand lands for???

the love make the definition???

anything can dig out the love from the depths of the heart, that dig to see how it does not love, but simply demands to be loved???

peace to peace to peace

sounds like somebody drank a little too much of the punch

christianity is a religion like any other

Dear Morningsong,

I humbly ask you, please, do not bring this sophisitic and confused statement up again.

It truly doesn't help your mission.

Take some time to look up the definition of christianity, and then a bit more time to look up te definition of religion. Think about it for a moment, and I am confident you will never again bring up such misguided and deceitful concept to describe that which you claim is the very centre of your life.

You claim:

'... Christianity is about RELATIONSHIP !!!
R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P ....BACK WITH GOD ALMIGHTY!!!
MADE AVAILABLE THRU CHRIST JESUS...'
The ONE WHO IS The BRIDGE .....
THE ONE WHO CLOSES THE GAP....
BETWEEN MAN AND GOD....
AND
BRINGS MAN BACK
INTO FELLOWSHIP
AND
RIGHT STANDING
AND
RELATIONSHIP
WITH GOD ALMIGHTY ONCE MORE....
JUST LIKE IT WAS IN THE
BEGINNING!!!!!!!!!! ...'

... THAT PERSONAL CLAIM, is nothing other than 'ARTICLE 1' OF YOUR VERY OWN AND PERSONAL RELIGION RELIGION RELIGION RELIGION (as you would write yourself)!!!

Your 'ARTICLE 1' IS EXACTLY WHAT A RELIGION IS!!!

If you can't find an adequate definition of 'religion' or 'christianity' in your reference manuals, I'll be happy to post a few from different sources just for you Morningsong.

But please Morningsong, let's agree that you will make every attempt to refrain in the future, from making such misguided and deceitful statements as offered in your above post. Clearly not 'christ like' to be deceitful.

DEAL!?!?!?

everyone is entitled to their opinions. I understand what morningsong is saying and if someone doesn't agree with her opinion....that i their right. but she is entitled to state her feelings and beliefs like everyone else is as long as it goes with the rules

Of course Yellowrose, Morningsong is entitled to her opinion (guessing that is what your above post is about).

And I, for one, have an opinion about what IMO are misguided, deceitful and moralizing statements which I get to read on these forums.

Opinions meeting some agreement, or counter opinions is what these forums are all about. It is redundant IMHO, to keep pointing out this simple evidence.

As for the 'deal' I am proposing to Morningsong, it's an invitation based on the fact that IMHO, I don't think deceit helps hers, or for that matter, anyone else's mission.

In the end, Morningsong will either agree with my logic or not, and accept or decline my invitation.

That simple.

on that note: i discovered atheism thanks greatly to overly religious people

i don't know if i should be thankful or sad for people that "drank the punch"

Hello everyone...



I felt compelled to respond in this thread as a result of the content to which James has been referring to that is in the OP, specifically this...



The implication is damning.

Can one say such such a thing with conviction? Surely!

Can one say such a thing with absolute certainty? Surely not!

Moral fiber, or as I prefer to call it, one's sense of ought has an immovable foundation. It is the bedrock of all things considered. The beginnings of which is taken entirely upon trust as a child. A child does not know to doubt until that which has been accepted as true is contradicted in some way, shape, or form. It is the beginning of knowledge, of that which one knows.

Doubting everything is impossible.

The meaning of the term immoral is personal and reflects one's personal sense of ought. If one believes that doubting in the existence of the 'God of Abraham' equates to immorality, then should we not understand why this is so?

I want to say there is no understanding where there is no meaning.

frankly - the whole concept of the good-natured christian god doesn't hold water.
especially when terrible things happen to the religion's faithful followers

i'm surprised the religion had such a good run

People create their own 'terrible things.' Being a believer does not guarantee that from that day forward your life is going to be perfect and you are going to be protected from all bad things.

Thought is what creates. People are responsible for there own lives. Sometimes faith and belief does help because it causes people to think and believe and envision better things and it can help get rid of fear and worry, which are bad thoughts that create bad things.

So just having faith in something can cause you to think better thoughts can change your life.

If we look back over history we can see that much of what kept it alive had been strict intimitation of reprisal if anyone spoke out against it.

I personally wouldn't call that a "good run"

But I guess the term is subjective.

so those who believe are thereby morally right?
i guess that explains all those priests that molest children....

Truly.

Religion is nothing more than an excuse for an ego to convince itself that arrogance is divine.

(please note: This is a generic statement and is not meant to reference any particiular ego)