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| Topic: So This Is How It's Going to Be | |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Fri 04/24/09 12:00 AM
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 Those sick people that did this torture crap should go to prison. No one is supposed to be above the law. If you or I did that stuff we would be in jail right now.
I agree. However, if the indictments move too far up the chain, there will be a very, very dangerous precedent set. By releasing all this information and trying people based on confidential documents from a former administration, I personally feel that it is the equivalent of what happens when a third-world country faces a regime change - metaphorically kill the last regime. I'm all for punishment where punishment is due, I just do not see this as ending well. If looking back on the last administration and attempting to punish them for their actions becomes habit, maybe we will become more morally supportive. however, there is always the possibility of the negative side where it results in all out fighting between the two parties (not in the physical, war like sense, I mean) You or I don't get that privilege. No one should be above the law. And "just following orders" don't cut the mustard. Plus it would be a matter of time before the goverment starts trying to do it to American citizens
"Just following orders" does, in fact cut the mustard because it is a direct order from a superior. The CIA is not as strict as in the actual military, but it's definitely not one to mess around with insubordination. The US military does not advocate torturing prisoners. Nor do they expect you to follow such an order. You go through a lot of training to ensure that you know its illegal and that you disobey any order instructing you to do so. They make it very clear that there is no excuse for it. Not even the, "I was only obeying a direct order", excuse! You will be prosecuted for it just as they did German soldiers and guards at concentration camps after WWII! Just as they did the American soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison. Their prosecution is just more evidence that the Bush Administration knew torture was against the law. The only thing that pisses me off about that episode is that none of their Superiors were prosecuted! And no one from the Bush Administration. Who we now know authorized the torture! |
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 BUMP
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BUMP
Burn the Bush! |
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so why haven't they gone after Bush and the others?
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so why haven't they gone after Bush and the others? I have started several threads on here stating that they are talking of doing just that! This thread is a poor attempt to justify reasons not to! Go sign the petition if you think its important. I did! |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Fri 04/24/09 11:11 AM
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Go sign the Petition!
Burn the Bush! http://pol.moveon.org/torture/?rc=homepage Accountability for Torture On Thursday, President Obama released memos showing that top Bush officials didn't just condone the use of torture--they encouraged it. So far there's been no accountability for the architects of Bush's torture program. We need a full investigation and real consequences for those responsible - it's the only way to keep this from happening again. Ask Attorney General Holder to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the torture program. A compiled petition with your individual comment will be presented to Attorney General Eric Holder. |
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so why haven't they gone after Bush and the others? I have started several threads on here stating that they are talking of doing just that! This thread is a poor attempt to justify reasons not to! Go sign the petition if you think its important. I did! if they have the proof to do so...I am for it....but I'm waiting to see if anything gets done |
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so why haven't they gone after Bush and the others? I have started several threads on here stating that they are talking of doing just that! This thread is a poor attempt to justify reasons not to! Go sign the petition if you think its important. I did! if they have the proof to do so...I am for it....but I'm waiting to see if anything gets done You're being complacent! Go sign the petition! |
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i will!!!!!
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i will!!!!! Thank you! I really feel its the right thing to do! Several of those soldiers from Abu Ghraib received 8 yr sentences. Not to mention a permanent mark on their records. I think, for their part, the sentence is justified, but the Bush Administration should not get away with their part which was far more extensive and serious! |
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Those sick people that did this torture crap should go to prison. No one is supposed to be above the law. If you or I did that stuff we would be in jail right now.
I agree. However, if the indictments move too far up the chain, there will be a very, very dangerous precedent set. By releasing all this information and trying people based on confidential documents from a former administration, I personally feel that it is the equivalent of what happens when a third-world country faces a regime change - metaphorically kill the last regime. I'm all for punishment where punishment is due, I just do not see this as ending well. If looking back on the last administration and attempting to punish them for their actions becomes habit, maybe we will become more morally supportive. however, there is always the possibility of the negative side where it results in all out fighting between the two parties (not in the physical, war like sense, I mean) You or I don't get that privilege. No one should be above the law. And "just following orders" don't cut the mustard. Plus it would be a matter of time before the goverment starts trying to do it to American citizens
"Just following orders" does, in fact cut the mustard because it is a direct order from a superior. The CIA is not as strict as in the actual military, but it's definitely not one to mess around with insubordination. The US military does not advocate torturing prisoners. Nor do they expect you to follow such an order. You go through a lot of training to ensure that you know its illegal and that you disobey any order instructing you to do so. They make it very clear that there is no excuse for it. Not even the, "I was only obeying a direct order", excuse! You will be prosecuted for it just as they did German soldiers and guards at concentration camps after WWII! Just as they did the American soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison. Their prosecution is just more evidence that the Bush Administration knew torture was against the law. The only thing that pisses me off about that episode is that none of their Superiors were prosecuted! And no one from the Bush Administration. Who we now know authorized the torture! Then I recant my statement. I assume you have more first-hand knowledge here and merely made my statement on my understanding of the military. |
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Those sick people that did this torture crap should go to prison. No one is supposed to be above the law. If you or I did that stuff we would be in jail right now.
I agree. However, if the indictments move too far up the chain, there will be a very, very dangerous precedent set. By releasing all this information and trying people based on confidential documents from a former administration, I personally feel that it is the equivalent of what happens when a third-world country faces a regime change - metaphorically kill the last regime. I'm all for punishment where punishment is due, I just do not see this as ending well. If looking back on the last administration and attempting to punish them for their actions becomes habit, maybe we will become more morally supportive. however, there is always the possibility of the negative side where it results in all out fighting between the two parties (not in the physical, war like sense, I mean) You or I don't get that privilege. No one should be above the law. And "just following orders" don't cut the mustard. Plus it would be a matter of time before the goverment starts trying to do it to American citizens
"Just following orders" does, in fact cut the mustard because it is a direct order from a superior. The CIA is not as strict as in the actual military, but it's definitely not one to mess around with insubordination. The US military does not advocate torturing prisoners. Nor do they expect you to follow such an order. You go through a lot of training to ensure that you know its illegal and that you disobey any order instructing you to do so. They make it very clear that there is no excuse for it. Not even the, "I was only obeying a direct order", excuse! You will be prosecuted for it just as they did German soldiers and guards at concentration camps after WWII! Just as they did the American soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison. Their prosecution is just more evidence that the Bush Administration knew torture was against the law. The only thing that pisses me off about that episode is that none of their Superiors were prosecuted! And no one from the Bush Administration. Who we now know authorized the torture! Then I recant my statement. I assume you have more first-hand knowledge here and merely made my statement on my understanding of the military. I responded and explained it to you on the first page. The Nazis said they were "just following orders" and we still locked their asses up
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Edited by
davidben1
on
Fri 04/24/09 05:32 PM
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this president is one of the wisest we have had in many decade's???
if one walk into a Mcdonald's, and takes over the establishment??? should one DEEM ALL THAT WERE ABIDING AND FOLLOWING PREVIOUS ORDER'S AS "CRIMMINALS"??? the 'right' to do so IS THERE, but, IS THIS, the wisest descision??? IF, a PRESIDENT does such, then ALL the power's, of another POLITICAL PARTY, with EXTREME CLOUT, and EXTREME SELF PARY POWER AND TIE'S AND MEMBER'S, will become as enemies??? so, when one is working with, and WITHIN, a environment, where EXTREME POWER, of opposite party, IS ABLE TO 'EXTERMINATE' WHAT IS NOT LIKE ITSELF, what is the BEST MOVE??? IF, one cause it's own demise by creating POLAR ENEMEIES, CAN IT ENVOKE CHANGE FOR THE BETTER GOOD OF ALL??? such are the decisions that a president must face??? such are the life and death decisions, of EACH WORD SPOKEN AND EACH DEED COMMITTED, by a president within the modern society, where "EXTREME WEALTH" SPEAK, AND WIELD MUCH POWER??? and is easily "ABOVE THE LAW", IF IT DOES NOT GET "CAUGHT" AT WHATEVER IT DOES, SO HOLD'S MUCH UNSEEN POWER??? what is wise is not what is based upon good and bad, or right and wrong, as such things are based in "utopian" wishes, that each create by seeing thru TWO EYE'S ALONE AS THE GUIDE OF ALL??? when looking further, into WHAT SHALL BECOME FOR ALL, LATER, FROM EACH WORD OR DEED, THEN UPTOPIAN NOTIONS ARE MEANINGLESS, AND "REALITY", THE "NOW", AS WHAT 'ALREADY EXIST', becomes as paromount, unto what ONE SHOULD DO FOR EACH STEP FOR GOOD FOR ALL??? to base the future, INSISTING ON OTHER'S HAVING FAULT FOR CREATING IT, is to NOT SEE THE MOST GOOD FOR "ALL" THAT CAN BE CREATED NOW??? just thoughts... peace |
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More evidence has came out today
We gonna lock these son of a *****es up just like we did the Nazis
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Those sick people that did this torture crap should go to prison. No one is supposed to be above the law. If you or I did that stuff we would be in jail right now.
I agree. However, if the indictments move too far up the chain, there will be a very, very dangerous precedent set. By releasing all this information and trying people based on confidential documents from a former administration, I personally feel that it is the equivalent of what happens when a third-world country faces a regime change - metaphorically kill the last regime. I'm all for punishment where punishment is due, I just do not see this as ending well. If looking back on the last administration and attempting to punish them for their actions becomes habit, maybe we will become more morally supportive. however, there is always the possibility of the negative side where it results in all out fighting between the two parties (not in the physical, war like sense, I mean) You or I don't get that privilege. No one should be above the law. And "just following orders" don't cut the mustard. Plus it would be a matter of time before the goverment starts trying to do it to American citizens
"Just following orders" does, in fact cut the mustard because it is a direct order from a superior. The CIA is not as strict as in the actual military, but it's definitely not one to mess around with insubordination. The US military does not advocate torturing prisoners. Nor do they expect you to follow such an order. You go through a lot of training to ensure that you know its illegal and that you disobey any order instructing you to do so. They make it very clear that there is no excuse for it. Not even the, "I was only obeying a direct order", excuse! You will be prosecuted for it just as they did German soldiers and guards at concentration camps after WWII! Just as they did the American soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison. Their prosecution is just more evidence that the Bush Administration knew torture was against the law. The only thing that pisses me off about that episode is that none of their Superiors were prosecuted! And no one from the Bush Administration. Who we now know authorized the torture! Then I recant my statement. I assume you have more first-hand knowledge here and merely made my statement on my understanding of the military.
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This can of worms will be one to watch, certainly. Obama has already wiggled back and forth on this one. Whichever side you are on, that's no way to lead.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2009117894_opinb26broder.html |
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Edited by
MirrorMirror
on
Fri 04/24/09 11:47 PM
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 Do you have these thoughts often?
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Edited by
Winx
on
Fri 04/24/09 11:53 PM
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hhhhmmmmmmmm
if someone is caught from opposing force at time of war (the terrorist cell did declare holy war on the united states correct) (bush did declare war on terror correct) and they are not in uniform thus that puts them in the spy category correct is it not the rule that spies can be put to death http://books.google.com/books?id=e6sO_rlRuMIC&pg=PA138&lpg=PA138&dq=punishment+of+spies+and+the+geneva+convention&source=bl&ots=X93B3mOHT7&sig=X30h0kerX8ix59PtjBfEnZgJ08c&hl=en&ei=SrLySe-IE8OrtgfhhrmjDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#PPA138,M1 just providing the info not condoning any activity |
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hhhhmmmmmmmm if someone is caught from opposing force at time of war (the terrorist cell did declare holy war on the united states correct) (bush did declare war on terror correct) and they are not in uniform thus that puts them in the spy category correct is it not the rule that spies can be put to death http://books.google.com/books?id=e6sO_rlRuMIC&pg=PA138&lpg=PA138&dq=punishment+of+spies+and+the+geneva+convention&source=bl&ots=X93B3mOHT7&sig=X30h0kerX8ix59PtjBfEnZgJ08c&hl=en&ei=SrLySe-IE8OrtgfhhrmjDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#PPA138,M1 just providing the info not condoning any activity Apples and oranges
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